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I know ALT 103.7 (KVIL) hasn't ever had great ratings, but a 1.1?!?!?

Right, and if they just want to go for cume, going back to CHR would certainly increase the number substantially higher than it is now. 93.3 with its deficient signal, stale branding, and unfocused music mix outcumes 103.7 every month, usually by huge margins.
93.3 isn't exactly deficient in signal. It's equal to a class B, and places like Plano, Richardson, Frisco, and Lewisville are within its 60 dBU coverage. It's not like you can gain a lot by covering, say, Hillsboro.

And "stale branding" and "unfocused music mix"? Do specify, in relation to KHKS.
 
93.3 isn't exactly deficient in signal. It's equal to a class B, and places like Plano, Richardson, Frisco, and Lewisville are within its 60 dBU coverage. It's not like you can gain a lot by covering, say, Hillsboro.

93.3 is definitely better than the rimshots, but it is totally deficient compared to the Cedar Hill signals. DFW is a huge market and sprawling in every direction and 60 dBu doesn't get the job done anyway and 93.3 doesn't even cover all the urbanized area with a 60 much less a 65 or 70.

It's pretty solid in most of Dallas county, but iffy in parts of Tarrant, Denton, and Collin. Not to mention the other outer counties. This is one of the reasons I think combining 96.7 and 93.3 makes some sense, especially had they made the move to downtown.

Hillsboro is in Hill County which is not in the DFW market and doesn't really matter.


And "stale branding" and "unfocused music mix"? Do specify, in relation to KHKS.

"Stale branding" and "unfocused music mix" are totally subjective here and I own that. It is my way of conveying intangibles as a listener, specifically compared to Kiss. I don't know what Hot stands for this year and it doesn't feel like if I don't punch over I'm going to missing anything or anyone.

The cume is pretty decent considering the middling signal, so a lot of listeners know of Hot's existence...
 
93.3 is definitely better than the rimshots, but it is totally deficient compared to the Cedar Hill signals. DFW is a huge market and sprawling in every direction and 60 dBu doesn't get the job done anyway and 93.3 doesn't even cover all the urbanized area with a 60 much less a 65 or 70.

It's pretty solid in most of Dallas county, but iffy in parts of Tarrant, Denton, and Collin. Not to mention the other outer counties. This is one of the reasons I think combining 96.7 and 93.3 makes some sense, especially had they made the move to downtown.

Hillsboro is in Hill County which is not in the DFW market and doesn't really matter.




"Stale branding" and "unfocused music mix" are totally subjective here and I own that. It is my way of conveying intangibles as a listener, specifically compared to Kiss. I don't know what Hot stands for this year and it doesn't feel like if I don't punch over I'm going to missing anything or anyone.

The cume is pretty decent considering the middling signal, so a lot of listeners know of Hot's existence...

It may be more the programming than the signal, if so. (I can't speak for the programming on KLIF-FM, though, as I have not sampled the station lately.) WCBS-FM has some signal problems in Central Jersey thanks to interference from WBEB, yet WCBS-FM does well in the Middlesex-Somerset-Union ratings. (Likewise, Z100 is doing well in spite of potential interference from WRNB, although the interference is less noticeable due to WRNB's directional signal.)
 
It may be more the programming than the signal, if so. (I can't speak for the programming on KLIF-FM, though, as I have not sampled the station lately.) WCBS-FM has some signal problems in Central Jersey thanks to interference from WBEB, yet WCBS-FM does well in the Middlesex-Somerset-Union ratings. (Likewise, Z100 is doing well in spite of potential interference from WRNB, although the interference is less noticeable due to WRNB's directional signal.)
I have listened to Hot very recently. It is definitely programming, but it is also absolutely signal.

Just looking at the most recent 6+ from yesterday you can see that 93.3 does better than a couple of Cedar Hill basement dwellers like KVIL and WRR, but every other one does better, despite Hot having a much more mass-appeal format.

You can also see that a number of worse rimshot signals do substantially better, KRNB, some of the Estralla stations, KTCK-FM (it's combined, but most of that audience is on FM and 96.7 gets first billing on the branding as well).

So it's underperformance is definitely on both sides of this equation.

Every year as the market continues its rapid growth with the bulk of it further and further out, the signal problems on a smaller C2 station such as 93.3, will only get worse.
 
Every year as the market continues its rapid growth with the bulk of it further and further out, the signal problems on a smaller C2 station such as 93.3, will only get worse.
I'm not sure if it's really vital to target Waxahachie, White Settlement, Ennis, or Terrell. A lot of large/major markets seem to do fine with class B (C2 equivalent) signals, like NYC, Boston, Chicago, DC, Baltimore, and Philadelphia. Having spotty coverage in the farthest exurbs hasn't hurt the stations in these markets. Even in Atlanta, WHTA used to score high ratings with a semi-rimshot C2. Also in Miami, WCMQ, a C2, is a Top 5 station, while in Orlando, WPYO used to be competitive against WXXL with a C3 signal.

As for Dallas/Fort Worth, the rimshots do seem to cover Plano, Frisco, Irving, The Colony, Grapevine, etc. All crucial cities within the metro. The areas that are reachable by the Cedar Hill sticks but not the KLIF-FM one seem to be mainly rural areas / small towns south of DeSoto.
 
I'm not sure if it's really vital to target Waxahachie, White Settlement, Ennis, or Terrell.

None of the DFW targeted stations are going to sink or swim based on the coverage in any one of those small outlying bedroom communities, but.... if you take all of them or say groups of them together, it is not an insignificant number of people and it does have a material impact.

A lot of large/major markets seem to do fine with class B (C2 equivalent) signals, like NYC, Boston, Chicago, DC, Baltimore, and Philadelphia.

Those Class Bs from Willis/JHC in Chicago are also not really adequate for those exurb areas. I'm less familiar with the northeast so I'll let someone else comment on those.

In those markets though, there is no competitive pressure from better facilities, however, in the case of KLIF-FM and DFW, we do have C,C0, and C1s, so a C2 93.3 is going to be handicapped raight out of the gate against a C 106.1.

The difference between a C2 and C is immense. It's 2X the power plus 4X the height.
 
As for Dallas/Fort Worth, the rimshots do seem to cover Plano, Frisco, Irving, The Colony, Grapevine, etc. All crucial cities within the metro. The areas that are reachable by the Cedar Hill sticks but not the KLIF-FM one seem to be mainly rural areas / small towns south of DeSoto.
DFW rimshots are in a good situation as the urban growth is, for the most part, happening in the same direction as the rimshot sticks. Many of the northern burbs are the same distance from the rimshot transmitters as they are from Cedar Hill.

Reverse situation in Houston where the growth is in the opposite direction from that market's eastern rimshots.
 
None of the DFW targeted stations are going to sink or swim based on the coverage in any one of those small outlying bedroom communities, but.... if you take all of them or say groups of them together, it is not an insignificant number of people and it does have a material impact.



Those Class Bs from Willis/JHC in Chicago are also not really adequate for those exurb areas. I'm less familiar with the northeast so I'll let someone else comment on those.

In those markets though, there is no competitive pressure from better facilities, however, in the case of KLIF-FM and DFW, we do have C,C0, and C1s, so a C2 93.3 is going to be handicapped raight out of the gate against a C 106.1.

The difference between a C2 and C is immense. It's 2X the power plus 4X the height.
Why is it that in NYC you see a lot of 6kw signals (Class B), and in Chicago it's a similar deal (most being around 21kw)? Does it have to do with being on top of, per se, the John Hancock center, or the Empire State Building?
 
Why is it that in NYC you see a lot of 6kw signals (Class B), and in Chicago it's a similar deal (most being around 21kw)? Does it have to do with being on top of, per se, the John Hancock center, or the Empire State Building?
A lot of it has to do with the 50kW/150m HAAT limit for FM stations within Zone I (class B territory). And NYC FM stations perform best when placed in Manhattan, given that tall buildings make receiving stations that are even a little distant difficult. Hence why there are concerns about WXBK underperforming due to signal issues in Manhattan and the Bronx.
 
A lot of it has to do with the 50kW/150m HAAT limit for FM stations within Zone I (class B territory). And NYC FM stations perform best when placed in Manhattan, given that tall buildings make receiving stations that are even a little distant difficult. Hence why there are concerns about WXBK underperforming due to signal issues in Manhattan and the Bronx.
So the tall buildings do block some of the signal. Thank you for your response :)
 
None of the DFW targeted stations are going to sink or swim based on the coverage in any one of those small outlying bedroom communities, but.... if you take all of them or say groups of them together, it is not an insignificant number of people and it does have a material impact.



Those Class Bs from Willis/JHC in Chicago are also not really adequate for those exurb areas. I'm less familiar with the northeast so I'll let someone else comment on those.

In those markets though, there is no competitive pressure from better facilities, however, in the case of KLIF-FM and DFW, we do have C,C0, and C1s, so a C2 93.3 is going to be handicapped raight out of the gate against a C 106.1.

The difference between a C2 and C is immense. It's 2X the power plus 4X the height.
A smaller signal is not always a handicap. In addition to WPYO once being competitive with WXXL in Orlando, WKSL (as a C2) in Jacksonville has had higher shares than heritage WAPE (a C) in the past few books. Both Orlando and Jacksonville house lower-density sprawling metros. Also, in Melbourne FL, WFKS (an A) remains fairly competitive with WAOA (a C1). In the Hampton Roads, WUSH (a B1) remains competitive with WGH (a superpower B). In Atlanta, WPZE (an A) has about the same cume as WKHX (a C0) and WUBL (C1). Speaking of WUBL, it currently has similar cume and share as WHTA. Of course, the aforementioned Atlanta stations have different demographic targets, but the point is that superpowered signals are not everything. It may help, but if the programming is below par or less attractive to the market, it won't matter.
 
Do those numbers reflect streaming? There is an ongoing argument on another board (sportsy) if streaming counts in the overall numbers.
 
Do those numbers reflect streaming? There is an ongoing argument on another board (sportsy) if streaming counts in the overall numbers.
Hard to say for sure, but many stations decide to list streaming separately on the ratings. However, streaming is less often than not a low share.
 
A smaller signal is not always a handicap.
I would rephrase this slightly... a smaller signal is always a handicap but it can be overcome if the smaller signal covers most of the audience the format is targeting and if the programming is compelling enough.

Assuming the broadcast tower is in the same general area a larger more powerful signal is always preferable to a smaller weaker one.
 
Do those numbers reflect streaming? There is an ongoing argument on another board (sportsy) if streaming counts in the overall numbers.

If you look at this linked list of Dallas ratings, you'll see one station with -STR next to it's call letters. That represents the streaming for that particular station.

https://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb024

My understanding is that for streaming to be included with overall station numbers, the signal must be an exact duplicate, and the station can't substitute fillers in place of commercials.
 
My understanding is that for streaming to be included with overall station numbers, the signal must be an exact duplicate, and the station can't substitute fillers in place of commercials.
Yes. There is a limited exception, intended to satisfy stations with sports contracts that prevent streaming of games and which allow only Over the Air broadcast. That exception allows for a certain number of hours per month of non-simulcast for such situations.

Otherwise, single line reporting requires a 100% simulcast.
 
Why is it that in NYC you see a lot of 6kw signals (Class B), and in Chicago it's a similar deal (most being around 21kw)? Does it have to do with being on top of, per se, the John Hancock center, or the Empire State Building?
Those NYC and Chicago stations that are a power levels such as 6 kw in NYC and either about 6 kw or 4 kw in Chicago are the equivalent of a Class B which is limited to 50,000 watts at 500 feet. Unlike AM, FM coverage is based on a combination of power and height. If you go over the standard height, the power goes down so that coverage is maintained in conformance with the Class B allocation.
 
Do those numbers reflect streaming? There is an ongoing argument on another board (sportsy) if streaming counts in the overall numbers.

One more thing: Inside Radio reported Triton's statistics regarding radio station streaming:


This report covers national streaming of local radio stations, which is different from what Nielsen covers.
 
It may be more the programming than the signal, if so. (I can't speak for the programming on KLIF-FM, though, as I have not sampled the station lately.) WCBS-FM has some signal problems in Central Jersey thanks to interference from WBEB, yet WCBS-FM does well in the Middlesex-Somerset-Union ratings. (Likewise, Z100 is doing well in spite of potential interference from WRNB, although the interference is less noticeable due to WRNB's directional signal.)
They should have never allowed that. What a mess. 101.1 and 100.3 in 3 major cities in a row. At least have Philadelphia have 100.3 at 100.5 (directional signal) and 101.1 moves to 101.3 (directional signal) 101.3 in Lancaster moves to 101.5 and 101.5 in Trenton would move to 101.7.
 
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