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I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
- Thread starter pab
- Start date
B
beantownradio25
Guest
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
TV38 Boston does well.
TV38 Boston does well.
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
The strongest true independent, by far, is WCIU/26 in Chicago. They are more competitive in terms of their ratings than any other independent station that I'm aware of -- and they're truly independent in the sense that they are not part of a duopoly with a network affiliate. Note that both KTXA/21 (Dallas) and WSBK/38 (Boston) are duopolies with the CBS station for their markets.
The strongest true independent, by far, is WCIU/26 in Chicago. They are more competitive in terms of their ratings than any other independent station that I'm aware of -- and they're truly independent in the sense that they are not part of a duopoly with a network affiliate. Note that both KTXA/21 (Dallas) and WSBK/38 (Boston) are duopolies with the CBS station for their markets.
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
Add KCAL/9 Los Angeles to that list - another duopoly with CBS.
wncc said:
Add KCAL/9 Los Angeles to that list - another duopoly with CBS.
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
KTVK 3 Phoenix remains strong, although with a complete refocus of programming. The former home of AZ Diamondbacks baseball is now She-TV, with everything Oprah in the evenings and a newscast steeped in estrogen.
KAZT 7 Prescott has definitely upgraded since its pre-2002 KUSK days, although most of its viewership is via KAZT-CA 36 in Phoenix.
KTVK 3 Phoenix remains strong, although with a complete refocus of programming. The former home of AZ Diamondbacks baseball is now She-TV, with everything Oprah in the evenings and a newscast steeped in estrogen.
KAZT 7 Prescott has definitely upgraded since its pre-2002 KUSK days, although most of its viewership is via KAZT-CA 36 in Phoenix.
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
I would think so; even though they are considered part of the Philadelphia DMA, WFMZ is geared specifically toward the Lehigh Valley, and have a strong local newscast. That's good enough for me.
Incidentally, the station just turned 34 years old:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WFMZ-TV
I would think so; even though they are considered part of the Philadelphia DMA, WFMZ is geared specifically toward the Lehigh Valley, and have a strong local newscast. That's good enough for me.
Incidentally, the station just turned 34 years old:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WFMZ-TV
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
WGSR-47 in Reidsville NC is doing well in the Greensboro Market. We carry a few syndicated shows, some classic TV reruns and a fair amount of sports shows. We are also the Greensboro market affiliate for The Daily Buzz and do our own local news and talk shows.
WMDV-44 in Danville VA is our newest station and is growing steadily. Unlike network stations, you can watch the full 24-hour schedule of both stations online . . . . [url]http://www.wgsr47.tv [/url] [url]www.wmdv44.tv [/url]
Later . . . .
WGSR-47 in Reidsville NC is doing well in the Greensboro Market. We carry a few syndicated shows, some classic TV reruns and a fair amount of sports shows. We are also the Greensboro market affiliate for The Daily Buzz and do our own local news and talk shows.
WMDV-44 in Danville VA is our newest station and is growing steadily. Unlike network stations, you can watch the full 24-hour schedule of both stations online . . . . [url]http://www.wgsr47.tv [/url] [url]www.wmdv44.tv [/url]
Later . . . .
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
Do the ratings for KTVK show the station as "strong"? I'm thinking they may rank higher than 61, 51, 45 and 7 but probably trail everything else. And what happens to them when Oprah goes cable next year?
KAZT had a very brief bump in my house when RTV first began operations but they are a non-player today along with 45, 51 and, except for one hours of reruns per day, 61.
dhett said:
Do the ratings for KTVK show the station as "strong"? I'm thinking they may rank higher than 61, 51, 45 and 7 but probably trail everything else. And what happens to them when Oprah goes cable next year?
KAZT had a very brief bump in my house when RTV first began operations but they are a non-player today along with 45, 51 and, except for one hours of reruns per day, 61.
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
Also in D/FW is independent KFWD/52 (RF-9). Although owed by HIC Broadcast, they are essentially run by Belo sister WFAA. In a market with ~20% OTA viewing, KFWD suffers from a weak signal (13 kW on the challenged VHF band). Their old pre-transition plant with 375 kW at 1791' HAAT on RF-51 was a monster in comparison to the current facility.
In terms of programming, suffice it to say it's not a WCIU (but who else comes close?), but it's not just wall-to-wall infomercials. WFAA's newscasts are aired on a delayed basis along with a primetime lineup of Oprah, Dr. Oz, Cheers, The Twilight Zone, Cheers and M*A*S*H.
KFWD is definitely a second tier operation compared to CBS O&O indie KTXA but we're fortunate to have two full-power independents in the market.
cowboybud said:
Also in D/FW is independent KFWD/52 (RF-9). Although owed by HIC Broadcast, they are essentially run by Belo sister WFAA. In a market with ~20% OTA viewing, KFWD suffers from a weak signal (13 kW on the challenged VHF band). Their old pre-transition plant with 375 kW at 1791' HAAT on RF-51 was a monster in comparison to the current facility.
In terms of programming, suffice it to say it's not a WCIU (but who else comes close?), but it's not just wall-to-wall infomercials. WFAA's newscasts are aired on a delayed basis along with a primetime lineup of Oprah, Dr. Oz, Cheers, The Twilight Zone, Cheers and M*A*S*H.
KFWD is definitely a second tier operation compared to CBS O&O indie KTXA but we're fortunate to have two full-power independents in the market.
M
musicman3355
Guest
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
KCAL 9 Los Angeles and KUSI 51 San Diego are surely strong stations.
KCAL 9 Los Angeles and KUSI 51 San Diego are surely strong stations.
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
You're correct about WCIU. It was the best decision for them to not affiliate with Univision full time back in 1994, when Univision pressured Weigel Broadcasting to drop their English & other foreign language programming. Weigel Broadcasting refused, but luckily for Univision, WGBO was for sale, & they puchased that station. WGBO never made a profit as an independent English language station, nor under their predecessor, WFBN. After Weigel moved their foreign language programming to WFBT-CA (then on channel 23), they turned 26 into the station that we know today with all the first run syndicated talk, news magazine, & court shows, plus off-network syndicated shows. They also get the sportscasts that get farmed out to them from WGN-TV, when WGN-TV can't air them (primarily due to their commitment to airing CW shows). Their duopoly in Milwaukee also has independent WBME, the MeTV station, but also carries Telemundo on a subchannel (WDJT is their CBS affiliate). I however don't think WBME is as strong of an independent station for Weigel as WCIU in Chicago has been, but it's definitely better than the stuff that was carried on the station when it was WJJA (mostly a general home shopping channel, but not HSN).
TexasTom said:
You're correct about WCIU. It was the best decision for them to not affiliate with Univision full time back in 1994, when Univision pressured Weigel Broadcasting to drop their English & other foreign language programming. Weigel Broadcasting refused, but luckily for Univision, WGBO was for sale, & they puchased that station. WGBO never made a profit as an independent English language station, nor under their predecessor, WFBN. After Weigel moved their foreign language programming to WFBT-CA (then on channel 23), they turned 26 into the station that we know today with all the first run syndicated talk, news magazine, & court shows, plus off-network syndicated shows. They also get the sportscasts that get farmed out to them from WGN-TV, when WGN-TV can't air them (primarily due to their commitment to airing CW shows). Their duopoly in Milwaukee also has independent WBME, the MeTV station, but also carries Telemundo on a subchannel (WDJT is their CBS affiliate). I however don't think WBME is as strong of an independent station for Weigel as WCIU in Chicago has been, but it's definitely better than the stuff that was carried on the station when it was WJJA (mostly a general home shopping channel, but not HSN).
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
KSTC Minneapolis is pretty strong, although they are a duopoly with Hubbard's KSTP (an ABC affiliate). With that said, I do believe that not having a network affiliation still counts.
They have local Monring news during Good Morning America, and a 9PM newscast. They used to also have quite a bit of local programming, but that was canned in budget cuts a while back. They air Wild and Timberwolves games, as well as High School sports tournaments.
KSTC Minneapolis is pretty strong, although they are a duopoly with Hubbard's KSTP (an ABC affiliate). With that said, I do believe that not having a network affiliation still counts.
They have local Monring news during Good Morning America, and a 9PM newscast. They used to also have quite a bit of local programming, but that was canned in budget cuts a while back. They air Wild and Timberwolves games, as well as High School sports tournaments.
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
Technically WLNY TV 55 from Riverhead, NY is in the NYC market. They are carried on most cable systems throughout the metro area. Although their OTA signal does not reach beyond Long Island and coastal CT. Not sure how they do ratings-wise, but they carry Jeaopardy, Wheel, and Oprah, along with a lot of movies and other syndicated programming.
Pab Sungenis said:
Technically WLNY TV 55 from Riverhead, NY is in the NYC market. They are carried on most cable systems throughout the metro area. Although their OTA signal does not reach beyond Long Island and coastal CT. Not sure how they do ratings-wise, but they carry Jeaopardy, Wheel, and Oprah, along with a lot of movies and other syndicated programming.
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
Gotta give props to Weigel. They are very effective at creating something out of seemingly nothing. Witness what they did with obscure Ch. 58 in Milwaukee back in the 90s. They eventually broke down and picked up the CBS affiliation after WITI dumped them for FOX. That move eventually made an obscure UHF indy into a competitive player in the market. They've also been quite effective with low-power stations. WMLW in Milwaukee was another obscure outlet, but they beefed it up with tons of local sports and decent syndicated product and were able to score not only local cable placement, but some very desirable real estate as well (Ch. 7 on Time Warner). They are not only a strong LPTV, but a strong independent. The other LP outlet has done well with Telemundo. They also have a few successful LP stations in Chicago and South Bend.
And need I say more about This and MeTV?
TexasTom said:
Gotta give props to Weigel. They are very effective at creating something out of seemingly nothing. Witness what they did with obscure Ch. 58 in Milwaukee back in the 90s. They eventually broke down and picked up the CBS affiliation after WITI dumped them for FOX. That move eventually made an obscure UHF indy into a competitive player in the market. They've also been quite effective with low-power stations. WMLW in Milwaukee was another obscure outlet, but they beefed it up with tons of local sports and decent syndicated product and were able to score not only local cable placement, but some very desirable real estate as well (Ch. 7 on Time Warner). They are not only a strong LPTV, but a strong independent. The other LP outlet has done well with Telemundo. They also have a few successful LP stations in Chicago and South Bend.
And need I say more about This and MeTV?
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
From what I heard about Weigel's WDJT, is that when WITI went Fox, WDJT was the only station that showed interest in picking up the CBS affiliation. It was CBS who didn't want to affiliate with them, because of their channel number, & that the station was one of the lowest rated stations. WISN, WTMJ, WCGV, & WVTV (was a CBS O&O as WXIX in the 50's) showed no interest at all in changing their affiliation. WJJA (now owned by Weigel & is WBME) also showed no interest & wanted to keep all control of the station. They tried to buy WVCY, but WVCY decided to keep their station. That left CBS having to renegociate with WDJT before they had to have CBS piped in on cable if a deal wasn't worked out. I heard that Weigel had to create a news department, which I believe they originally didn't want to (someone clarify that for me). WDJT was smart to get their signal upgraded to cover the market better.
Their other stations are well programmed too. Being an independent company, they've been more open to trying different ideas with their programming, unlike most of the big corporate giants (whether the networks themselves, or the companies that affiliate with the networks). The only reason they have Telemundo is because Univision didn't want their network on a low power station, and felt that most of their viewers would be best served by getting it on cable & satellite. So this was the second fallout with Weigel & Univision (the first time was 1994 in Chicago, when Weigel refused to make WCIU a fulltime Univision affiliate, & Univision instead bought WGBO). I can't speak about METV Milwaukee, but they've done an excellent job with MeTV/MeToo Chicago. This TV isn't exactly my cup of tea most of the time, but I do like MrEd & any MGM movie that interests me (like Thelma & Louise).
FightingIrish said:
From what I heard about Weigel's WDJT, is that when WITI went Fox, WDJT was the only station that showed interest in picking up the CBS affiliation. It was CBS who didn't want to affiliate with them, because of their channel number, & that the station was one of the lowest rated stations. WISN, WTMJ, WCGV, & WVTV (was a CBS O&O as WXIX in the 50's) showed no interest at all in changing their affiliation. WJJA (now owned by Weigel & is WBME) also showed no interest & wanted to keep all control of the station. They tried to buy WVCY, but WVCY decided to keep their station. That left CBS having to renegociate with WDJT before they had to have CBS piped in on cable if a deal wasn't worked out. I heard that Weigel had to create a news department, which I believe they originally didn't want to (someone clarify that for me). WDJT was smart to get their signal upgraded to cover the market better.
Their other stations are well programmed too. Being an independent company, they've been more open to trying different ideas with their programming, unlike most of the big corporate giants (whether the networks themselves, or the companies that affiliate with the networks). The only reason they have Telemundo is because Univision didn't want their network on a low power station, and felt that most of their viewers would be best served by getting it on cable & satellite. So this was the second fallout with Weigel & Univision (the first time was 1994 in Chicago, when Weigel refused to make WCIU a fulltime Univision affiliate, & Univision instead bought WGBO). I can't speak about METV Milwaukee, but they've done an excellent job with MeTV/MeToo Chicago. This TV isn't exactly my cup of tea most of the time, but I do like MrEd & any MGM movie that interests me (like Thelma & Louise).
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
From what I heard about Weigel's WDJT, is that when WITI went Fox, WDJT was the only station that showed interest in picking up the CBS affiliation. It was CBS who didn't want to affiliate with them, because of their channel number, & that the station was one of the lowest rated stations. WISN, WTMJ, WCGV, & WVTV (was a CBS O&O as WXIX in the 50's) showed no interest at all in changing their affiliation. WJJA (now owned by Weigel & is WBME) also showed no interest & wanted to keep all control of the station. They tried to buy WVCY, but WVCY decided to keep their station. That left CBS having to renegociate with WDJT before they had to have CBS piped in on cable if a deal wasn't worked out. I heard that Weigel had to create a news department, which I believe they originally didn't want to (someone clarify that for me). WDJT was smart to get their signal upgraded to cover the market better.
Their other stations are well programmed too. Being an independent company, they've been more open to trying different ideas with their programming, unlike most of the big corporate giants (whether the networks themselves, or the companies that affiliate with the networks). The only reason they have Telemundo is because Univision didn't want their network on a low power station, and felt that most of their viewers would be best served by getting it on cable & satellite. So this was the second fallout with Weigel & Univision (the first time was 1994 in Chicago, when Weigel refused to make WCIU a fulltime Univision affiliate, & Univision instead bought WGBO). I can't speak about METV Milwaukee, but they've done an excellent job with MeTV/MeToo Chicago. This TV isn't exactly my cup of tea most of the time, but I do like MrEd & any MGM movie that interests me (like Thelma & Louise).
[/quote]
Dave, you are correct about WDJT, pre-CBS. As an independent station, Channel 58 was an after-thought in the Milwaukee TV market. It had a weak signal and an equally weak program line-up. Even as a TV novice at the time, I could tell the station was struggling in the ratings because the schedule would be changed constantly! I still have old tapes of early WDJT programming, and their equipment also was primitive, to say the least.
Interestingly, WDJT has been owned by Weigel since its launch in the late 1980s. For a TV nerd like myself, I actually enjoyed the station's early scrappy years -- lots of hard-to-find TV shows were programmed, and the technical glitches made viewing interesting.
I think it's safe to say they wanted to affiliate with CBS -- heck, they were already picking up a bunch of shows that WITI had passed on. WDJT was notorious for picking up all the scraps from Milwaukee's ABC, CBS and NBC affiliates. (I remember, for instance, watching those campy "Crime Time After Prime Time" dramas on WDJT in the early 1990s, and they were a part of CBS' late night line-up at that time.)
WDJT's fortunes began to change drastically when they affiliated with CBS. The network, incidentally, did knock on the doors of every other full-power, commercial station at the time. With just days to go before the WITI switch, WDJT was named the new affiliate. In fact, I remember my print TV Guide in December 1994 not reflecting the WDJT affiliation because it was so eleventh-hour.
Weigel may have been more of an after-thought in Milwaukee two decades ago. But these days, I think it's safe to say the company has been very kind to the city with its array of programming on multiple channels.
From what I heard about Weigel's WDJT, is that when WITI went Fox, WDJT was the only station that showed interest in picking up the CBS affiliation. It was CBS who didn't want to affiliate with them, because of their channel number, & that the station was one of the lowest rated stations. WISN, WTMJ, WCGV, & WVTV (was a CBS O&O as WXIX in the 50's) showed no interest at all in changing their affiliation. WJJA (now owned by Weigel & is WBME) also showed no interest & wanted to keep all control of the station. They tried to buy WVCY, but WVCY decided to keep their station. That left CBS having to renegociate with WDJT before they had to have CBS piped in on cable if a deal wasn't worked out. I heard that Weigel had to create a news department, which I believe they originally didn't want to (someone clarify that for me). WDJT was smart to get their signal upgraded to cover the market better.
Their other stations are well programmed too. Being an independent company, they've been more open to trying different ideas with their programming, unlike most of the big corporate giants (whether the networks themselves, or the companies that affiliate with the networks). The only reason they have Telemundo is because Univision didn't want their network on a low power station, and felt that most of their viewers would be best served by getting it on cable & satellite. So this was the second fallout with Weigel & Univision (the first time was 1994 in Chicago, when Weigel refused to make WCIU a fulltime Univision affiliate, & Univision instead bought WGBO). I can't speak about METV Milwaukee, but they've done an excellent job with MeTV/MeToo Chicago. This TV isn't exactly my cup of tea most of the time, but I do like MrEd & any MGM movie that interests me (like Thelma & Louise).
[/quote]
Dave, you are correct about WDJT, pre-CBS. As an independent station, Channel 58 was an after-thought in the Milwaukee TV market. It had a weak signal and an equally weak program line-up. Even as a TV novice at the time, I could tell the station was struggling in the ratings because the schedule would be changed constantly! I still have old tapes of early WDJT programming, and their equipment also was primitive, to say the least.
Interestingly, WDJT has been owned by Weigel since its launch in the late 1980s. For a TV nerd like myself, I actually enjoyed the station's early scrappy years -- lots of hard-to-find TV shows were programmed, and the technical glitches made viewing interesting.
I think it's safe to say they wanted to affiliate with CBS -- heck, they were already picking up a bunch of shows that WITI had passed on. WDJT was notorious for picking up all the scraps from Milwaukee's ABC, CBS and NBC affiliates. (I remember, for instance, watching those campy "Crime Time After Prime Time" dramas on WDJT in the early 1990s, and they were a part of CBS' late night line-up at that time.)
WDJT's fortunes began to change drastically when they affiliated with CBS. The network, incidentally, did knock on the doors of every other full-power, commercial station at the time. With just days to go before the WITI switch, WDJT was named the new affiliate. In fact, I remember my print TV Guide in December 1994 not reflecting the WDJT affiliation because it was so eleventh-hour.
Weigel may have been more of an after-thought in Milwaukee two decades ago. But these days, I think it's safe to say the company has been very kind to the city with its array of programming on multiple channels.
Re: I would ask "what are the strongest independents?" but are there any left?
The fact they are able to get those high-profile syndicated shows and air them at appropriate times (ie Oprah at 7 when more people are home) keeps them afloat. They even have a half-hour newscast weeknights, which helps for those on Long Island who don't have Cablevision. It looks really cheap, though.
As for WFMZ, they certainly carry a lot of news and other local programming, including some Lehigh football games. It nicely serves the largest DMA without any network affiliates.
ansky212 said:
The fact they are able to get those high-profile syndicated shows and air them at appropriate times (ie Oprah at 7 when more people are home) keeps them afloat. They even have a half-hour newscast weeknights, which helps for those on Long Island who don't have Cablevision. It looks really cheap, though.
As for WFMZ, they certainly carry a lot of news and other local programming, including some Lehigh football games. It nicely serves the largest DMA without any network affiliates.
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