With the Fan cornering much of the FM sports talk market 104.7 is faltering and could be looking for a new format. Could that new format be country? DSY is the only serious country competitor in Pgh market being the only one with a real Pgh signal. Would the frogs still try to hold on with the their ring of outlying stations or would they try something different. Could they could try to take 104.3 talk and pick up Quinn and Rose? Rush and the other right wingers would also be in need for an Pgh outlet and Quinn and Rose could fit with the country format on the other stations. Since Jimmy Roach left the Frogs don't have much in the way of a morning show.
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If 104.7 went country what would become of the frogs?
- Thread starter xm41
- Start date
Keymarket has gotten away from selling the Frogs as a combined entity and are running a Pittsburgh station (104.3), a Uniontown station (94.9) and a Steubenville station (103.5).
My guess is that at the very least, the outlying markets would not change. They are doing fine as small market stations like WJPA and WLER.
There is no way Keymarket would spend the money for Quinn and Rose. That's not the way they operate. I think there is a slight chance that CC might arrange for 104.3 to get the syndicated conservative shows if 104.7 drops them, just to keep them away from KDKA. Or if 104.7 went sports, maybe Rush and friends go to 970.
The main reason for flipping 104.7 to country, if that happened, would be to knock Y108 out of #1 and get DVE back into that spot.
And last but not least, depending on how this fits with the rules since CC is at their maximum number of stations, maybe CC figures out a way to use one or more of the current Frogs as a simulcast partner for 970 to overcome its signal limitations.
My guess is that at the very least, the outlying markets would not change. They are doing fine as small market stations like WJPA and WLER.
There is no way Keymarket would spend the money for Quinn and Rose. That's not the way they operate. I think there is a slight chance that CC might arrange for 104.3 to get the syndicated conservative shows if 104.7 drops them, just to keep them away from KDKA. Or if 104.7 went sports, maybe Rush and friends go to 970.
The main reason for flipping 104.7 to country, if that happened, would be to knock Y108 out of #1 and get DVE back into that spot.
And last but not least, depending on how this fits with the rules since CC is at their maximum number of stations, maybe CC figures out a way to use one or more of the current Frogs as a simulcast partner for 970 to overcome its signal limitations.
XM- To begin with and to answer the question posed originally on here- nothing would happen to the Frogs. They'd continue exactly what they've been doing, get the same ratings, keep the sponsors they have, and make whatever money they get off talent that doesn't mind adopting the name Mr. Toad and making minimum wage.
What doesn't make much sense is you saying that The Fan is taking away 104.7's audience.
If you want to say 104.7 is failing, okay (we'll get to that below). But why would a sports talker take away from a political talker's audience?
You can tell me all you want the demo is older and the station isn't getting the attention it once did. But as recently as November the station was No. 1. Bumped by the Presidential election, yes, but The Fan has to be bumped to No. 1 by the Pirates in the last book.
I just think that if Clear Channel tried to move Rush and Beck to 970, they'd be hearing from Rush and Beck's lawyers, let alone ESPN's. If you look at their affiliate list, these shows aren't carried on dinky poo AMs.
I would be surprised if KDKA didn't pick up a lot of 104.7's lineup. The day KDKA lost Rush was the day they quit being No. 1 in town (look it up). To think you're going to banish that lineup of the most listened to talk show hosts in the country to 970 or somehow to 104.3 (didn't quite get that one) just doesn't add up. It speaks of the wishful thinking of local lefties, much the same way we would read in 2004 that 104.7 was a failure and the station was immediately changing back to Jammin' Jo ("I know people on the inside!" somebody even wrote online to back up that point).
WPGB then proceeded to set records for their initial ratings book and programmers from all over the country then began to consider FM talk (So much for that person on the inside).
Furthermore, even if the demos are older, WPGB got a 3.8 rating in October. The X, which usually gets a hit from the Penguins, got a 3.0.
It would seem to me if CC wanted to protect the mothership, changing the format of The X to sports talk would make WDVE No. 1 again as rock fans would have no other place to go. Make DVE's playlist becomes a bit more contemporary and the early '70s stuff is put on the WWSW playlist and everybody is happy.
You think conservative talk is dying? The Republicans still make up half the country. Meanwhile, modern rock is yesterday's format. Answer to yourself, what's the hot new rock band of this era? I keep reading (with horror) that "hip-hop killed rock." Parttimer comes on here and tells us his teenage daughters don't listen to rock. 3.0 during Penguins season (up from 2.8 in September!). You tell me.
This doesn't say much about the collective intelligence or taste of today's millennials, but still.
The X would already have enough people in house to make such a flip and I doubt they'd lose many of their sponsors, who already cater to a young, male audience. Most of the talent at the station would rejoice in such a flip. ESPN could be carried 24/7 on 970, satisfying that contract (and possibly making the suits in Bristol happier). They'd have the Penguins contract and, if they wanted to, could probably find a way for the Steelers or Duquesne to come over (the latter if they wanted filler, but I actually think Madden could build up those broadcasts).
Furthermore, such a station would have a real "Pittsburgh feel" to it. Which is something The Fan doesn't have. It would be a sports talk war never seen before- including the WTAE-KQV battles of the "City of Champions" era.
If Clear Channel thinks changing 104.7 to country is going to make WDVE No. 1 again, the old adage of "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" comes to mind. Pittsburgh has not been clamoring for a return for "The Rebel" these past 20 years. Furthermore, WDSY is established as the country station in town, from time to time has hit No. 1 in the book for a short period of time (just like 104.7 and The Fan did) and what are you going to do to take that audience away? Add classic country into the format? Get a hip new programmer from Nashville and a "Win a Date with Hayden Panettiere Contest?" Hire Jim Krenn and have him say "I like country music" on TV ads?"
The first isn't going to reduce the demos. The second has no guarantees. The third isn't going to happen and the fourth isn't going to happen because it is Clear Channel.
If they believe at Clear Channel that WDSY is suddenly the domino that has to fall for WDVE to be No. 1 again and they will change WPGB to country to do it, I think they'll be unpleasantly surprised. That move would only serve to revitalize KDKA (maybe not in demos, but certainly in listeners).
What would make WDVE No. 1 again is changing The X to sports as I mentioned above or rehiring Krenn and building around him again.
104.7, meanwhile, might be better off just putting Imus or Bill Bennett or even Mancow, somebody like that on in the morning, for the short term before developing their own show.
What doesn't make much sense is you saying that The Fan is taking away 104.7's audience.
If you want to say 104.7 is failing, okay (we'll get to that below). But why would a sports talker take away from a political talker's audience?
You can tell me all you want the demo is older and the station isn't getting the attention it once did. But as recently as November the station was No. 1. Bumped by the Presidential election, yes, but The Fan has to be bumped to No. 1 by the Pirates in the last book.
I just think that if Clear Channel tried to move Rush and Beck to 970, they'd be hearing from Rush and Beck's lawyers, let alone ESPN's. If you look at their affiliate list, these shows aren't carried on dinky poo AMs.
I would be surprised if KDKA didn't pick up a lot of 104.7's lineup. The day KDKA lost Rush was the day they quit being No. 1 in town (look it up). To think you're going to banish that lineup of the most listened to talk show hosts in the country to 970 or somehow to 104.3 (didn't quite get that one) just doesn't add up. It speaks of the wishful thinking of local lefties, much the same way we would read in 2004 that 104.7 was a failure and the station was immediately changing back to Jammin' Jo ("I know people on the inside!" somebody even wrote online to back up that point).
WPGB then proceeded to set records for their initial ratings book and programmers from all over the country then began to consider FM talk (So much for that person on the inside).
Furthermore, even if the demos are older, WPGB got a 3.8 rating in October. The X, which usually gets a hit from the Penguins, got a 3.0.
It would seem to me if CC wanted to protect the mothership, changing the format of The X to sports talk would make WDVE No. 1 again as rock fans would have no other place to go. Make DVE's playlist becomes a bit more contemporary and the early '70s stuff is put on the WWSW playlist and everybody is happy.
You think conservative talk is dying? The Republicans still make up half the country. Meanwhile, modern rock is yesterday's format. Answer to yourself, what's the hot new rock band of this era? I keep reading (with horror) that "hip-hop killed rock." Parttimer comes on here and tells us his teenage daughters don't listen to rock. 3.0 during Penguins season (up from 2.8 in September!). You tell me.
This doesn't say much about the collective intelligence or taste of today's millennials, but still.
The X would already have enough people in house to make such a flip and I doubt they'd lose many of their sponsors, who already cater to a young, male audience. Most of the talent at the station would rejoice in such a flip. ESPN could be carried 24/7 on 970, satisfying that contract (and possibly making the suits in Bristol happier). They'd have the Penguins contract and, if they wanted to, could probably find a way for the Steelers or Duquesne to come over (the latter if they wanted filler, but I actually think Madden could build up those broadcasts).
Furthermore, such a station would have a real "Pittsburgh feel" to it. Which is something The Fan doesn't have. It would be a sports talk war never seen before- including the WTAE-KQV battles of the "City of Champions" era.
If Clear Channel thinks changing 104.7 to country is going to make WDVE No. 1 again, the old adage of "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" comes to mind. Pittsburgh has not been clamoring for a return for "The Rebel" these past 20 years. Furthermore, WDSY is established as the country station in town, from time to time has hit No. 1 in the book for a short period of time (just like 104.7 and The Fan did) and what are you going to do to take that audience away? Add classic country into the format? Get a hip new programmer from Nashville and a "Win a Date with Hayden Panettiere Contest?" Hire Jim Krenn and have him say "I like country music" on TV ads?"
The first isn't going to reduce the demos. The second has no guarantees. The third isn't going to happen and the fourth isn't going to happen because it is Clear Channel.
If they believe at Clear Channel that WDSY is suddenly the domino that has to fall for WDVE to be No. 1 again and they will change WPGB to country to do it, I think they'll be unpleasantly surprised. That move would only serve to revitalize KDKA (maybe not in demos, but certainly in listeners).
What would make WDVE No. 1 again is changing The X to sports as I mentioned above or rehiring Krenn and building around him again.
104.7, meanwhile, might be better off just putting Imus or Bill Bennett or even Mancow, somebody like that on in the morning, for the short term before developing their own show.
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Clearly you don't get how cluster programming works.
If Y108 is ranked #1, a and a new country station on 104.7 takes 2 shares away from them they drop down to maybe #4 or 5. DVE, simply by maintaining the same ratings, becomes the #1 ranked station.
The reason CC doesn't try harder with 970 or flip the X to all sports is that doing so would pull 25-54 men away from DVE. The X as currently constructed is aimed 18-34.
Regarding the idea that "if CC tried to move Rush they would hear from his lawyers" , that would never be a unilateral decision that wasn't discussed with the syndicator ahead of time. And remember that Premiere Radio Networks IS clear Channel. They would settle for the parent company keeping the show away from CBS. CC often works much harder at limiting competition than they do on their product.
If Y108 is ranked #1, a and a new country station on 104.7 takes 2 shares away from them they drop down to maybe #4 or 5. DVE, simply by maintaining the same ratings, becomes the #1 ranked station.
The reason CC doesn't try harder with 970 or flip the X to all sports is that doing so would pull 25-54 men away from DVE. The X as currently constructed is aimed 18-34.
Regarding the idea that "if CC tried to move Rush they would hear from his lawyers" , that would never be a unilateral decision that wasn't discussed with the syndicator ahead of time. And remember that Premiere Radio Networks IS clear Channel. They would settle for the parent company keeping the show away from CBS. CC often works much harder at limiting competition than they do on their product.
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