C
ckik
Guest
Just wondering
-
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If 92.5 were to flip, would they be the 1st station to flip OUT OF Jack FM?
> Just wondering
>
First JACK...perhaps. First VH format to flip...NO.
In Thunder Bay Ontario there was a short lived Larry that is now Hot FM, a CHR format, and on the American side there was a BOB fm in Hawaii, but that's now gone.
Good question, and great post. thanks for bringing it up.<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
>
First JACK...perhaps. First VH format to flip...NO.
In Thunder Bay Ontario there was a short lived Larry that is now Hot FM, a CHR format, and on the American side there was a BOB fm in Hawaii, but that's now gone.
Good question, and great post. thanks for bringing it up.<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
> > Just wondering
> >
> First JACK...perhaps. First VH format to flip...NO.
>
> In Thunder Bay Ontario there was a short lived Larry that is
> now Hot FM, a CHR format, and on the American side there was
> a BOB fm in Hawaii, but that's now gone.
>
> Good question, and great post. thanks for bringing it up.
>
Let's ask the VH board...they may have more insight...ot not, as many posters there are American, and could care less about the Canadian Jacks.
> >
> First JACK...perhaps. First VH format to flip...NO.
>
> In Thunder Bay Ontario there was a short lived Larry that is
> now Hot FM, a CHR format, and on the American side there was
> a BOB fm in Hawaii, but that's now gone.
>
> Good question, and great post. thanks for bringing it up.
>
Let's ask the VH board...they may have more insight...ot not, as many posters there are American, and could care less about the Canadian Jacks.
> > > Just wondering
> > >
> > First JACK...perhaps. First VH format to flip...NO.
> >
> > In Thunder Bay Ontario there was a short lived Larry that
> is
> > now Hot FM, a CHR format, and on the American side there
> was
> > a BOB fm in Hawaii, but that's now gone.
> >
> > Good question, and great post. thanks for bringing it up.
> >
> Let's ask the VH board...they may have more insight...ot
> not, as many posters there are American, and could care less
> about the Canadian Jacks.
Yeah I think you should stick to a board you know somthing about AYE!!!
> > >
> > First JACK...perhaps. First VH format to flip...NO.
> >
> > In Thunder Bay Ontario there was a short lived Larry that
> is
> > now Hot FM, a CHR format, and on the American side there
> was
> > a BOB fm in Hawaii, but that's now gone.
> >
> > Good question, and great post. thanks for bringing it up.
> >
> Let's ask the VH board...they may have more insight...ot
> not, as many posters there are American, and could care less
> about the Canadian Jacks.
Yeah I think you should stick to a board you know somthing about AYE!!!
> Yeah I think you should stick to a board you know somthing
> about AYE!!!
>
DUDE!...That's Eh!...not aye. <P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
> about AYE!!!
>
DUDE!...That's Eh!...not aye. <P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
B
Bob1370
Guest
> Just wondering
>
Not necessarily...if WCBS-FM in New York doesn't make a totally unexpected move upward from its current last place position, it'll probably beat everyone to a format flip. CBS-FM went from a 4.1 in its last month as a personality oldies station, to its current posture in the mid-1s 12+ and 25-54 (worst of all English language full market coverage FMs in the city).
It'll be interesting to see what the first BBMs of 2006 bring...and whether Jack's owners decide the trendline is continuing down or shows some hope.
>
Not necessarily...if WCBS-FM in New York doesn't make a totally unexpected move upward from its current last place position, it'll probably beat everyone to a format flip. CBS-FM went from a 4.1 in its last month as a personality oldies station, to its current posture in the mid-1s 12+ and 25-54 (worst of all English language full market coverage FMs in the city).
It'll be interesting to see what the first BBMs of 2006 bring...and whether Jack's owners decide the trendline is continuing down or shows some hope.
J
jack
Guest
> > Just wondering
> >
> First JACK...perhaps. First VH format to flip...NO.
>
> In Thunder Bay Ontario there was a short lived Larry that is
> now Hot FM, a CHR format, and on the American side there was
> a BOB fm in Hawaii, but that's now gone.
>
> Good question, and great post. thanks for bringing it up.
>
Well, I seem to believe that "LARRY" was a stunt format.
BOB-FM in Hawaii was short-lived (and the only BOB below the 49th parallel to be consulted by Howard Kroeger of CHUM). It was put out on the old rugged cross when a religious broadcaster (Salem) bought that cluster of stations.
The BOB-FM that did go away was in Sacramento, a station owner had two stations and two formats - one 80s and one Joel Folger's version of BOB-FM. They were selling off one station and ask listeners to vote on which format to keep. The "winner" was the 80s format which went to 92.1 "The Flash". JACK is now in that market having taken over HOWARD 93.7 - KHWD. The station is a CBS Radio station that was named for Stern.
CJ
> >
> First JACK...perhaps. First VH format to flip...NO.
>
> In Thunder Bay Ontario there was a short lived Larry that is
> now Hot FM, a CHR format, and on the American side there was
> a BOB fm in Hawaii, but that's now gone.
>
> Good question, and great post. thanks for bringing it up.
>
Well, I seem to believe that "LARRY" was a stunt format.
BOB-FM in Hawaii was short-lived (and the only BOB below the 49th parallel to be consulted by Howard Kroeger of CHUM). It was put out on the old rugged cross when a religious broadcaster (Salem) bought that cluster of stations.
The BOB-FM that did go away was in Sacramento, a station owner had two stations and two formats - one 80s and one Joel Folger's version of BOB-FM. They were selling off one station and ask listeners to vote on which format to keep. The "winner" was the 80s format which went to 92.1 "The Flash". JACK is now in that market having taken over HOWARD 93.7 - KHWD. The station is a CBS Radio station that was named for Stern.
CJ
> Well, I seem to believe that "LARRY" was a stunt format.
There was another Hot FM in the market, but it became "Giant" fm, a classic Rocker, so the powers that be at Larry FM in Thunder bay chose to go after the Hot Fm listener, for the reasons that be.
If Hot did not flip, perhaps Larry would still be around today(?)
(Larry had a good...I believe...6 or 8 month run?)<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
There was another Hot FM in the market, but it became "Giant" fm, a classic Rocker, so the powers that be at Larry FM in Thunder bay chose to go after the Hot Fm listener, for the reasons that be.
If Hot did not flip, perhaps Larry would still be around today(?)
(Larry had a good...I believe...6 or 8 month run?)<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
B
Bob1370
Guest
Re: Flipping OUT OF Jack FM/an additional thought
> > Just wondering
> >
> First JACK...perhaps. First VH format to flip...NO.
One thing that's interesting about the whole variety classic hits format genre...with the exception of Los Angeles, where Jack has had several decent books in a row (although the latest Arbitrends show it starting to lose a little ground), most Jack stations which don't use foreground personalities to present it, don't seem to do all that well.
The successful "variety classic hits" stations seem to be more like The Arch in St. Louis, or hybrid variety hits/oldies stations like WHTT in Buffalo, with a full lineup of live jocks. With a music mix that eclectic, you need a personality to pull each daypart together---and to hold people through individual songs they might not like, so that the TSL and AQH figures can stay healthy. If you're just a jukebox with snarky recorded liners like Jack in New York, Buffalo and Toronto or 'Fickle' outside of morning drive in Rochester, the listener's gone the moment he hears a song he doesn't know or didn't particularly like when it was new on the charts. Bridge, Zapoleon, Arbitron, they've all studied Jack and its various flavors, and they find the automated version of it is death to Time Spent Listening and really pummels AQH shares as a result.
The music mix concept behind Jack is a good one. But it only really works in the context of a personality presentation. Trying to do it on the cheap with Howard Cogan's snide liners off the hard drive as the only 'human' voice on the station is a false economy, losing you more in ratings and revenue than you save in lower cost.
> > Just wondering
> >
> First JACK...perhaps. First VH format to flip...NO.
One thing that's interesting about the whole variety classic hits format genre...with the exception of Los Angeles, where Jack has had several decent books in a row (although the latest Arbitrends show it starting to lose a little ground), most Jack stations which don't use foreground personalities to present it, don't seem to do all that well.
The successful "variety classic hits" stations seem to be more like The Arch in St. Louis, or hybrid variety hits/oldies stations like WHTT in Buffalo, with a full lineup of live jocks. With a music mix that eclectic, you need a personality to pull each daypart together---and to hold people through individual songs they might not like, so that the TSL and AQH figures can stay healthy. If you're just a jukebox with snarky recorded liners like Jack in New York, Buffalo and Toronto or 'Fickle' outside of morning drive in Rochester, the listener's gone the moment he hears a song he doesn't know or didn't particularly like when it was new on the charts. Bridge, Zapoleon, Arbitron, they've all studied Jack and its various flavors, and they find the automated version of it is death to Time Spent Listening and really pummels AQH shares as a result.
The music mix concept behind Jack is a good one. But it only really works in the context of a personality presentation. Trying to do it on the cheap with Howard Cogan's snide liners off the hard drive as the only 'human' voice on the station is a false economy, losing you more in ratings and revenue than you save in lower cost.
J
jack
Guest
Re: Flipping OUT OF Jack FM/an additional thought
> The music mix concept behind Jack is a good one. But it only
> really works in the context of a personality presentation.
> Trying to do it on the cheap with Howard Cogan's snide
> liners off the hard drive as the only 'human' voice on the
> station is a false economy, losing you more in ratings and
> revenue than you save in lower cost.
The ORIGINAL concept was to have jocks (and some of the JACKs even outside Canada do have jocks - at least in key dayparts). However, the majority of JACK listeners prefer the NO DJ approach. I'm just not sure of how long you can go without someone there.
CJ
> The music mix concept behind Jack is a good one. But it only
> really works in the context of a personality presentation.
> Trying to do it on the cheap with Howard Cogan's snide
> liners off the hard drive as the only 'human' voice on the
> station is a false economy, losing you more in ratings and
> revenue than you save in lower cost.
The ORIGINAL concept was to have jocks (and some of the JACKs even outside Canada do have jocks - at least in key dayparts). However, the majority of JACK listeners prefer the NO DJ approach. I'm just not sure of how long you can go without someone there.
CJ
B
Bob1370
Guest
Re: Flipping OUT OF Jack FM/an additional thought
> The ORIGINAL concept was to have jocks (and some of the
> JACKs even outside Canada do have jocks - at least in key
> dayparts). However, the majority of JACK listeners prefer
> the NO DJ approach. I'm just not sure of how long you can go
> without someone there.
>
> CJ
>
If listeners prefer jockless Jack, why do they give better ratings to the ones that have a personality lineup?
> The ORIGINAL concept was to have jocks (and some of the
> JACKs even outside Canada do have jocks - at least in key
> dayparts). However, the majority of JACK listeners prefer
> the NO DJ approach. I'm just not sure of how long you can go
> without someone there.
>
> CJ
>
If listeners prefer jockless Jack, why do they give better ratings to the ones that have a personality lineup?
J
jack
Guest
Re: Flipping OUT OF Jack FM/an additional thought
If listeners prefer jockless Jack, why do they give better
ratings to the ones that have a personality lineup?
I think that's the point. The original JACK wasn't designed to be jockless, that came about later.
CJ
If listeners prefer jockless Jack, why do they give better
ratings to the ones that have a personality lineup?
I think that's the point. The original JACK wasn't designed to be jockless, that came about later.
CJ
Re: Flipping OUT OF Jack FM/an additional thought
> If listeners prefer jockless Jack, why do they give better
> ratings to the ones that have a personality lineup?
>
> I think that's the point. The original JACK wasn't designed
> to be jockless, that came about later.
>
> CJ
>
ARE YOU PEOPLE ON CHEAP DRUGS? Jack Toronto fell to a 1.7 from a 3.2 when they went jockless.
PLUS also it doesn't help when a company dictates that for that style of music, that's what you got...no jock. Want a jock? listen to country or something.
Hey, I'd better accept it if TWO stations played the same music one jockless and one not but that not what going on. so BS no one wants jocks. ther jus listening cuz they don't have another choice. I am sick and tired of no jocks and can not find anyone who says jocks are a bad thing.
> If listeners prefer jockless Jack, why do they give better
> ratings to the ones that have a personality lineup?
>
> I think that's the point. The original JACK wasn't designed
> to be jockless, that came about later.
>
> CJ
>
ARE YOU PEOPLE ON CHEAP DRUGS? Jack Toronto fell to a 1.7 from a 3.2 when they went jockless.
PLUS also it doesn't help when a company dictates that for that style of music, that's what you got...no jock. Want a jock? listen to country or something.
Hey, I'd better accept it if TWO stations played the same music one jockless and one not but that not what going on. so BS no one wants jocks. ther jus listening cuz they don't have another choice. I am sick and tired of no jocks and can not find anyone who says jocks are a bad thing.
Re: Flipping OUT OF Jack FM/an additional thought
> > If listeners prefer jockless Jack, why do they give better
> > ratings to the ones that have a personality lineup?
> > I think that's the point. The original JACK wasn't
> designed
> > to be jockless, that came about later.
> ARE YOU PEOPLE ON CHEAP DRUGS? Jack Toronto fell to a 1.7
> from a 3.2 when they went jockless.
> PLUS also it doesn't help when a company dictates that for
> that style of music, that's what you got...no jock. Want a
> jock? listen to country or something.
>
> Hey, I'd better accept it if TWO stations played the same
> music one jockless and one not but that not what going on.
> so BS no one wants jocks. ther jus listening cuz they don't
> have another choice. I am sick and tired of no jocks and can
> not find anyone who says jocks are a bad thing.
>
The key point was made. A jockless jack is NOT working.
I hope it continues to fail...and fail miserably!
Good music deserves good radio personality to go with it!
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
> > If listeners prefer jockless Jack, why do they give better
> > ratings to the ones that have a personality lineup?
> > I think that's the point. The original JACK wasn't
> designed
> > to be jockless, that came about later.
> ARE YOU PEOPLE ON CHEAP DRUGS? Jack Toronto fell to a 1.7
> from a 3.2 when they went jockless.
> PLUS also it doesn't help when a company dictates that for
> that style of music, that's what you got...no jock. Want a
> jock? listen to country or something.
>
> Hey, I'd better accept it if TWO stations played the same
> music one jockless and one not but that not what going on.
> so BS no one wants jocks. ther jus listening cuz they don't
> have another choice. I am sick and tired of no jocks and can
> not find anyone who says jocks are a bad thing.
>
The key point was made. A jockless jack is NOT working.
I hope it continues to fail...and fail miserably!
Good music deserves good radio personality to go with it!
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
Even though Jack's overall numbers are down, last time I checked Jack was still the #2 station in Toronto in men 25-54, a very valuable demographic. Of course, Q107 is far ahead of Jack in the demo. It's just that CFNY is too youthful and most of the other FMs are too female-oriented.
It would probably make sense just to make Jack a more interesting Classic Hits station than blow it up entirely.
Gregg
[email protected]
It would probably make sense just to make Jack a more interesting Classic Hits station than blow it up entirely.
Gregg
[email protected]
> Even though Jack's overall numbers are down, last time I
> checked Jack was still the #2 station in Toronto in men
> 25-54, a very valuable demographic. Of course, Q107 is far
> ahead of Jack in the demo. It's just that CFNY is too
> youthful and most of the other FMs are too female-oriented.
>
> It would probably make sense just to make Jack a more
> interesting Classic Hits station than blow it up entirely.
>
>
> Gregg
> [email protected]
Are you from Toronto Gregg?
If the demand for country isn't present in Toronto, then KX 96 wouldn't have suddedn interest in a signal boost to better serve downtown Toronto. (subject to crtc approval)
What KX would do if Jack were to go country is anybody's guess...
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
> checked Jack was still the #2 station in Toronto in men
> 25-54, a very valuable demographic. Of course, Q107 is far
> ahead of Jack in the demo. It's just that CFNY is too
> youthful and most of the other FMs are too female-oriented.
>
> It would probably make sense just to make Jack a more
> interesting Classic Hits station than blow it up entirely.
>
>
> Gregg
> [email protected]
Are you from Toronto Gregg?
If the demand for country isn't present in Toronto, then KX 96 wouldn't have suddedn interest in a signal boost to better serve downtown Toronto. (subject to crtc approval)
What KX would do if Jack were to go country is anybody's guess...
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
G
go14
Guest
> Even though Jack's overall numbers are down, last time I
> checked Jack was still the #2 station in Toronto in men
> 25-54, a very valuable demographic.
Nowhere close.
Men 25-54:
1. Q107
2. CHUM-FM
3. 680 News
4. EZ Rock
5. Edge
6. Fan 590
7. CHFI
8. Z103
9. CFRB
10. Mix 99.9
11. Jack
12. CBC1
> checked Jack was still the #2 station in Toronto in men
> 25-54, a very valuable demographic.
Nowhere close.
Men 25-54:
1. Q107
2. CHUM-FM
3. 680 News
4. EZ Rock
5. Edge
6. Fan 590
7. CHFI
8. Z103
9. CFRB
10. Mix 99.9
11. Jack
12. CBC1
Is this information current? Something seems odd...thought Fan fit into top 5...
> Nowhere close.
>
> Men 25-54:
>
> 1. Q107
> 2. CHUM-FM
> 3. 680 News
> 4. EZ Rock
> 5. Edge
> 6. Fan 590
> 7. CHFI
> 8. Z103
> 9. CFRB
> 10. Mix 99.9
> 11. Jack
> 12. CBC1
>
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
> Nowhere close.
>
> Men 25-54:
>
> 1. Q107
> 2. CHUM-FM
> 3. 680 News
> 4. EZ Rock
> 5. Edge
> 6. Fan 590
> 7. CHFI
> 8. Z103
> 9. CFRB
> 10. Mix 99.9
> 11. Jack
> 12. CBC1
>
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
G
go14
Guest
> Is this information current? Something seems odd...thought
> Fan fit into top 5...
>
Fall 2005. Fan was #5 in Spring.
> Fan fit into top 5...
>
Fall 2005. Fan was #5 in Spring.
Re: Flipping OUT OF Jack FM/an additional thought
> > > If listeners prefer jockless Jack, why do they give
> better
> > > ratings to the ones that have a personality lineup?
> > > I think that's the point. The original JACK wasn't
> > designed
> > > to be jockless, that came about later.
> > ARE YOU PEOPLE ON CHEAP DRUGS? Jack Toronto fell to a 1.7
> > from a 3.2 when they went jockless.
> > PLUS also it doesn't help when a company dictates that for
>
> > that style of music, that's what you got...no jock. Want a
>
> > jock? listen to country or something.
> >
> > Hey, I'd better accept it if TWO stations played the same
> > music one jockless and one not but that not what going on.
>
> > so BS no one wants jocks. ther jus listening cuz they
> don't
> > have another choice. I am sick and tired of no jocks and
> can
> > not find anyone who says jocks are a bad thing.
> >
> The key point was made. A jockless jack is NOT working.
> I hope it continues to fail...and fail miserably!
> Good music deserves good radio personality to go with it!
>
This was a bad decision. Hopefully someone with a brain at Toronto's Jack will get jocks back on the air. It would do well.
> > > If listeners prefer jockless Jack, why do they give
> better
> > > ratings to the ones that have a personality lineup?
> > > I think that's the point. The original JACK wasn't
> > designed
> > > to be jockless, that came about later.
> > ARE YOU PEOPLE ON CHEAP DRUGS? Jack Toronto fell to a 1.7
> > from a 3.2 when they went jockless.
> > PLUS also it doesn't help when a company dictates that for
>
> > that style of music, that's what you got...no jock. Want a
>
> > jock? listen to country or something.
> >
> > Hey, I'd better accept it if TWO stations played the same
> > music one jockless and one not but that not what going on.
>
> > so BS no one wants jocks. ther jus listening cuz they
> don't
> > have another choice. I am sick and tired of no jocks and
> can
> > not find anyone who says jocks are a bad thing.
> >
> The key point was made. A jockless jack is NOT working.
> I hope it continues to fail...and fail miserably!
> Good music deserves good radio personality to go with it!
>
This was a bad decision. Hopefully someone with a brain at Toronto's Jack will get jocks back on the air. It would do well.
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