If I were WBOS or WXRV or WPLM or WFNX.....

[MassMusicMan]

And therein lies the flaw in the PPM system - it values passive listening the same as active, intent listening - an hour of hearing Magic in the background at the dentist's is measured the same as a person listening to "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me" on NPR and hanging on every word.

Well, yeah...a song is not talk. You don't hang on it, you tap your toe or hum or nod your head.

 

[frankfurter]

You see this as a FLAW? If you passively listened in the dentist office or at work, you were suppose to report it as such under your diary listening and many people didn't, which was a major flaw in the diary system. Listening is listening. That's like saying 75% of the viewers watch the Super Bowl for the game and the rest just watch the commercials. It doesn't matter, because 100% of viewership is measured.

Yes, it is a flaw. If something's on in the background and you're not paying attention to it (or simply wish it would go away), you're not really listening. A meter will pick up what ears don't. The station isn't making an impression on you and you're certainly not going to buy anything from its advertisers as a result. Should a PPM also record that I was "listening" to Jam'n when some obnoxious idiot pulls up next to me at a red light with his bass thumping?

Active listening, whether it's to Kiss 108 or WMBR, is what was reported in diaries and I feel a more accurate representation of what was actually being listened to. Sure, people forgot and others weren't honest with their listening patterns, but at least it separated radio you were listening to vs radio that was just in the background somewhere that didn't even register.

 

[fmradio1]

Keep in mind that commercial radio exists to sell advertising. Because of this, stations want to measure not just content listening but exposure to commercials.

Say I'm Giant Glass. I'm advertising on several stations in the market at any one time. I want my message to reach as many ears as possible during a given week or month. I don't care if it's active listening (flipping on WEEI to get the scores) or passive (WZLX being on at the auto parts store while I'm buying motor oil.) Exposure is exposure. I want to place my ads on the stations that have the MOST listeners in my target demos, either passive or active.

Radio stations want advertisers. Advertisers want stations that have reach. PPM measures that much more accurately than the diary.

 

[Signpost]

Radio stations want advertisers. Advertisers want stations that have reach. PPM measures that much more accurately than the diary.

The danger here is when an advertiser doesn't get results from a background station, and condemns radio altogether. Getting radio listeners to retain information is hard enough. Getting them to *act* on that information is a minor miracle. And a station with attentive listeners is more likely to provide a response for the advertiser compared to a background station with more listeners. A Geico or McDonald's might not notice their spot not generating any response when placed 6th in a 9 spot break on Kiss 108. Newbury Comics can probably tell whether or not their spots are working on WFNX. It's also possible Newbury Comics can get as many people through their doors with 'FNX's .07 as they would with Kiss 108's 10 share.

 

[mistermicrophone]

Yes, it is a flaw. If something's on in the background and you're not paying attention to it (or simply wish it would go away), you're not really listening. A meter will pick up what ears don't. The station isn't making an impression on you and you're certainly not going to buy anything from its advertisers as a result. Should a PPM also record that I was "listening" to Jam'n when some obnoxious idiot pulls up next to me at a red light with his bass thumping?

Active listening, whether it's to Kiss 108 or WMBR, is what was reported in diaries and I feel a more accurate representation of what was actually being listened to. Sure, people forgot and others weren't honest with their listening patterns, but at least it separated radio you were listening to vs radio that was just in the background somewhere that didn't even register.

fmradio1 hit the nail on the head. Arbitron rates the market as a sales tool and exposure/reach is the most important thing. And Signpost, saturation, regardless of whether it's passive listening or not, will resonate over time. Therein lies the danger; too many sales people promising results from a minimal schedule just to get the buy.

 

[onair]

Yes, it is a flaw. If something's on in the background and you're not paying attention to it (or simply wish it would go away), you're not really listening.

That is why with PPM they don't refer to it as TSL (Time spent listening) they refer to it as AWTE (Average Weekly Time Exposed) and ATE (Average Daily Time Exposed)

“Time spent listening” becomes “time exposed.”

 

[GenXRadio]

I won't speak for WPLM or WXRV but as someone who used to work at FNX I can say that it would be disasterous for FNX to change format.
They are connected to the Phoenix which we all know is an alternative weekly, a "synergy" with a jack or Mike station would NOT work, first of all musically it makes no sense, the music you would play on a Mike station isn't listened to by most FNX listeners.
There would be songs played on FNX in this scenario that just don't go together, it'd be like eating a peanut butter & mayonaise sandwich on an onion roll with a side of sardines - doesn't sound appetizing right? neither does a Mike FM station occupying 101.7 FM
Listeners know FNX for cutting edge music, edgy programming, people in my age group remember the days of "Rock the boat radio" which is completely opposite of the generic, same old same old programming a Mike FM station offers.
Let's also not forget that stations like jack & Mike are jockless, run by automation and therefore another part of what has made FNX so famous - it's personalities would be gone as would it's soul.
Now, would a Mike station work for WXRV or WPLM? Maybe, but one thing I know for sure it sure as hell doesn't belong at the dial position 101.7 FM in the Boston area!

 

[MassMusicMan]

Who really pays attention to radio commercials anyway? It's radio's great shell game...all these companies buy messages that few people listen to. And an entire industry exists on this premise. I love it. It's fun to observe.

 

[Signpost]

It's radio's great shell game...all these companies buy messages that few people listen to.

The same can be said of all advertising mediums. Late night cable TV, newspapers, even ads on websites are ignored.

I've worked directly with radio advertisers who got spectacular results from their radio advertisements. I've seen businesses pull radio out of their advertising budget only to have their business decline, then reversed that trend by resuming advertising on radio. However this was many years ago, before the internet became an entertainment medium, before consolidators began running "10 commercial in a row" spot breaks. I presume radio still works, but suspect its effectiveness on some stations is diminished as listeners have been conditioned to tune out all the spots. This is where independent stations with a smaller but more loyal audience likely provide a better value for an advertiser. Cost per Point doesn't measure the attention paid to a spot.

 

[WLYNWAZNgm]

In any form of advertising, the key is repetition. You are much better
off with a shorter spot, that runs more often. It is not cause and effect.
It is unlikely that you will buy a product because you just heard their ad
run. Rather, the next time you are shopping for a product of that type,
there will be recognition that you have heard something about that
product, and you are familiar with it. With that information in hand,
you would consider buying the advertised product before you
make your purchase...

 

[raccoonradio]

Shorter spots even on bigger stations can be effective--and that includes drop ins like
"We've got a Verizon wireless call to the bullpen..." --"the Shaw's WEEI Red Sox Radio Network"...
"WBZ Traffic on the 3s sponsored by..."
And then there's repetition in the ad itself--can be annoying but they have to hammer it in.
Take advantage of our offer now--call 1-800-555-3434, 1-800-555-3434, that's 1-800-555-3434

And of course in ads and PSAs alike, humor (thank you Stan "Who Listens To The Radio?" Freberg)
and jingles ("K-A-R-S, KARS 4 Kids") can also be effective. How many cookies did Andrew eat?
AN-drew 8-8000...

 

[atlantaboy]

Just wanted to add that WXRV isn't really a Boston station - the signal is closer to Manchester NH, where it gets huge ratings, so IMO it definitely isn't flipping anytime soon

WFNX must have some other source of income besides on-air advertising, cause it's gotten terrible ratings now for something like 25 years

 

[uncamark]

Just wanted to add that WXRV isn't really a Boston station - the signal is closer to Manchester NH, where it gets huge ratings, so IMO it definitely isn't flipping anytime soon

WFNX must have some other source of income besides on-air advertising, cause it's gotten terrible ratings now for something like 25 years

For the Phoenix, WFNX must be what QXR was for the NY Times--an image-polisher. In this case, it's proof of the parent newspaper's hipness, something important, considering that the Dig is trying to outhip the Phoenix (and the fact that alt-weekly readership is graying in general).

 

[Signpost]

I don't know how much WFNX earns, but i hear the TV networks advertising there frequently. WNFX has no shortage of advertisers, selling "qualitatively" rather than "quantitatively". I suspect WFNX turns a profit despite the .07 rating.

 

[chrish]

In response to Raccoons last post my favorite eample is this psyco-obsessive need to brand every piece of dust that blows by.
Heard the following on Monday: THIS WBZ SUBARU TRAFFIC ON THE THREE'S BROUGHT TO YOU BY TOYOTA........what are they thinking......I guess people just don't think much anymore. In the past one of the first things a traffic director was taught was not to run Ford in the same spot set with Chevy let alone back to back, same with Coke and Pepsi. It seems common sense
no longer applies anywhere anymore or maybe I'm just getting old.

 

[MR. JAROME_CALVIN]

If I was WBOS Program Management Personel, (Back in the day) They used to be a Country Station.
If I were them, I would put Country music on there. Keep the same call letters, because back then, as far as I can remember, they still had the same call letters back then "WBOS"
But this time, (Since they don't have radio host on there) put "HOT Country" (Dial-Global) on there, along with Weekend (New Music-Syndicated Shows, and weekend Syndicated Countdowns)


and if you all don't agree with this idea.


Second idea


Put "HOT AC" on there, same call letters WBOS 92.9 "Today's HOTTEST Variety" (Since they don't have radio host) put "HOT AC" (Dial-Global), weekdays at 3pm-7pm Doug Banks Show, and again "HOT AC" (Dial-Global), along with some Weekend Syndicated HOT AC countdowns, Syndicated Urban AC shows, and maybe a Syndicated Smooth Jazz Show

 

[reelyreal]

If I was WBOS Program Management Personel, (Back in the day) They used to be a Country Station.
If I were them, I would put Country music on there. Keep the same call letters, because back then, as far as I can remember, they still had the same call letters back then "WBOS"
But this time, (Since they don't have radio host on there) put "HOT Country" (Dial-Global) on there, along with Weekend (New Music-Syndicated Shows, and weekend Syndicated Countdowns)


and if you all don't agree with this idea.


Second idea


Put "HOT AC" on there, same call letters WBOS 92.9 "Today's HOTTEST Variety" (Since they don't have radio host) put "HOT AC" (Dial-Global), weekdays at 3pm-7pm Doug Banks Show, and again "HOT AC" (Dial-Global), along with some Weekend Syndicated HOT AC countdowns, Syndicated Urban AC shows, and maybe a Syndicated Smooth Jazz Show

I really don't understand your obsession with satellite-driven formats. I don't care what it is, Satellite doesn't belong in a top 10 market. Formats can be done with local talent.

 

[MR. JAROME_CALVIN]

because
I said right there
"Since they don't have radio host"

and also
thoe formats are very much more entertaining.

God,
everything I say here, no one ever likes, everyone always get mad at me
I don't do no crimes.

All I do is state good ideas here

 

[MR. JAROME_CALVIN]

pick on someone else, not me!!!!

 

[chrish]

Why in God's name would Greater Media take WBOS country again when they own country powerhouse WKLB the number two or three station in the market as of late, yeah lets compete against ourselves. Reminds me of a Golden Girls episode where they go to an auction to buy a painting thinking the artist is terminal. LAUROJRM, your logic or lack of it is a bit strange.