If there were a 50000 watt AM station in Montauk, Long Island...

[nd2023]

Would it reach the entire east coast day or night? Let's say it has a clear frequency and the transmitter is right next to the ocean. Montauk is at the easternmost end of Long Island.

 

[charlestondxman]

Possibly. But it would have to be on a low frequency.

 

[crainbebo]

How about having the Islip NY 540 moving to Montauk? I'd expect Outer Banks reception all day and all night.

-crainbebo

 

[1L6E6VHF]

Would it reach the entire east coast day or night? Let's say it has a clear frequency and the transmitter is right next to the ocean. Montauk is at the easternmost end of Long Island.

Ahhh.. nostalgia

You remind me of the fantasy I had for years of getting a Florida AM (e.g., WSUN 620) and moving its TL to Panacea, city-grade coverage of the entire Florida, Alabama and Mississippi Gulf Coast.

@charlestondxman
The lower, the better, but could still deliver a wallop at the higher end of the band. Rebelde on 1180 (back in 1998, I think only one Habana TL) was strong on the Gulf Coast in the FL Panhandle (drive a few miles inland, signal fell rapidly)

Another thought: How about a 2MW ERP FM on Mount Mitchell? (impossible without having several other stations going silent now).

 

[fybush]

50 kW low on the dial out at Montauk would reach a good chunk of the Atlantic coast by day, yes. But a mile inland from the coast? Not so much.

 

[charlestondxman]

570 out of Cuba does a good job of covering the southeast coast, audible within 15 miles of the coast just about anywhere from Wilmington to Key West, but there's nothing but the Bahamas and water separating the area.

 

[K6JHU]

Of course, anybody who licensed a station to Montauk would have it highly directional, due east

 

[Icangelp]

I've thought the same about a station on a favorable frequency like 540 and located on West End near Freeport, Bahamas. It's a saltwater path all the way to Long Island.

Back in the heyday of AM radio, it would have covered practically every beach along the eastern seaboard up to Virginia anyway. Sun tan lotion, Coca Cola, Bahamas tourism and businesses on the East coast of Florida would be your target advertisers. I would have recommended a directional antenna.

 

[1L6E6VHF]

I've thought the same about a station on a favorable frequency like 540 and located on West End near Freeport, Bahamas. It's a saltwater path all the way to Long Island.

Back in the heyday of AM radio, it would have covered practically every beach along the eastern seaboard up to Virginia anyway. Sun tan lotion, Coca Cola, Bahamas tourism and businesses on the East coast of Florida would be your target advertisers. I would have recommended a directional antenna.

WAPE 690 Jacksonville (now WOKV) was similar to what you describe. Its daytime transmitter was literally right against the beach, 50 kW ND daytime, and it targeted the beach well to its north as extra audience. It was a daytimer for about five years, building a second site inland with a six tower DA to serve Jacksonville (and only Jacksonville) at night.

 

[davideduardo]

I've thought the same about a station on a favorable frequency like 540 and located on West End near Freeport, Bahamas. It's a saltwater path all the way to Long Island.

Back in the heyday of AM radio, it would have covered practically every beach along the eastern seaboard up to Virginia anyway. Sun tan lotion, Coca Cola, Bahamas tourism and businesses on the East coast of Florida would be your target advertisers. I would have recommended a directional antenna.

This was tried... RVC on 530 from the Turks & Caicos Islands, with 100 kw at one point. It made beachfront landfall well up the coast, but did poorly inland because the SE coast of the US has fairly bad conductivity due to the sandbar-like geology of much of the area.

Even when AM was big, there was no business model for an AM with big daytime coverage outside its market... radio having been a predominantly local buy since the 50's. The main issue is that there was no metric to justify ad rates other than a coverage map

 

[davideduardo]

How about having the Islip NY 540 moving to Montauk? I'd expect Outer Banks reception all day and all night.

-crainbebo

The problem at night is that 540 is not a clear channel internationally, with loads of interference from stations ranging from the Dominican Republic to Colombia making useful service quite unreliable.

 

[DanStrassberg]

I think you mean due WEST! Due east would be good in Bermuda and Nova Scotia, but not in most of North America.

 

[gar hi]

I remember reading somewhere that someone heard WBZ midday during spring break on Daytona Beach. Think it was in the 60s.

From my own experience, I'm pretty much convinced a trace of WCBS makes it there daytime on a good receiver.

If WZBD hadn't been on the air, I would have already have taken my Sangean PR-D5 to Miami Beach to listen for WCBS because there is no land at all between their stick and there.


..............

BTW, the link for the Am frequency logbook is now broken.

Is there another link now?

 

[Icangelp]

This was tried... RVC on 530 from the Turks & Caicos Islands, with 100 kw at one point. It made beachfront landfall well up the coast, but did poorly inland because the SE coast of the US has fairly bad conductivity due to the sandbar-like geology of much of the area.

Even when AM was big, there was no business model for an AM with big daytime coverage outside its market... radio having been a predominantly local buy since the 50's. The main issue is that there was no metric to justify ad rates other than a coverage map

Don't frustrate me with the facts. I guy can dream, can't he?

 

[davideduardo]

I remember reading somewhere that someone heard WBZ midday during spring break on Daytona Beach. Think it was in the 60s.

I have sailed from West Palm Beach to Puerto Rico. Once clear of the noise around Nassau, and all the way to the north side of Hispaniola, WBZ is readable daytime unless there are atmospherics. Once east of Puerto Plata / Samaná, it is WOSO in San Juan.

WCBS, WABC and WFAN / WNBC were usable well into the 80's in that area but recent stations in the DR and PR and Cuba have wiped them out for the most part. 1010 is an occasional daytime listen on that route, too.

At night, the Venezuelans and Colombians wipe out all the northern clears most of the time. The Cubans are not so good for that intermediate range skywave.

 

[gar hi]

Wow. Thanks for the report!

Were you able to hear any of the NYC stations daytime right along the coast in Puerto Rico?

What kind of a receiver did you have?

 

[davideduardo]

Wow. Thanks for the report!

Were you able to hear any of the NYC stations daytime right along the coast in Puerto Rico?

What kind of a receiver did you have?

Receiver was a stock pocket type portable that could be put on a cushion while "at the helm" even when spray was severe. I think it was a Sony I used, but I went through several of them due to eventual salt water damage on them all (it was an open "cockpit" 36-footer and subject to a lot of spray)

Near PR, there is way too much local noise and interference including both PR stations and the Domincans to get any NYC station daytime. In open water, the Venezuelans are very strong, too, as it is 600 miles or so to the SA coast and 1800 to New York City.

In the roughly 30 years I lived in PR, I never even got Miami daytime, although the same Domincans and Venezuelans and of course a few Windward Islands stations were listenable in the day.

 

[davideduardo]

Don't frustrate me with the facts. I guy can dream, can't he?

This reminds me of the TIRICA episode in the early 70's. A group of Americans bought TIRICA, San José, Costa Rica and put 1,000,000 watts on its 625 kHz AM frequency, aimed at the U.S. South. While it never got running due to strain on the local power grid and interference with local telephone switches, it was intended to beam across the Gulf of Mexico at the area where an anti-immigration point of view might fall on some receptive ears.

AM projects that depended on skywave reception, irrespective of content, have been doomed for the last four or five decades. And those that depend on coastal groundwave coverage in the daytime soon realize that saltwater conductivity ends where the beach begins.

 

[Icangelp]

This reminds me of the TIRICA episode in the early 70's. A group of Americans bought TIRICA, San José, Costa Rica and put 1,000,000 watts on its 625 kHz AM frequency, aimed at the U.S. South. While it never got running due to strain on the local power grid and interference with local telephone switches, it was intended to beam across the Gulf of Mexico at the area where an anti-immigration point of view might fall on some receptive ears.

AM projects that depended on skywave reception, irrespective of content, have been doomed for the last four or five decades. And those that depend on coastal groundwave coverage in the daytime soon realize that saltwater conductivity ends where the beach begins.

I hadn't heard that story. I know that you are continually adding to your site, and found the story and photos of TIRCA. I'm guessing the group of Americans whose grand scheme it was weren't planning on using the TIRICA studios. Ha.

Wonder who ended up using the two 500 KW Continentals, or if they even were built?

 

[davideduardo]

I hadn't heard that story. I know that you are continually adding to your site, and found the story and photos of TIRCA. I'm guessing the group of Americans whose grand scheme it was weren't planning on using the TIRICA studios. Ha.

Wonder who ended up using the two 500 KW Continentals, or if they even were built?

The station was built and operated for a test period, but it could not stay on the air without disrupting phone service and pulling down the electrical grid. So the transmitters went to the Venezuelan Government where they were put on 1240 with a directional antenna pointing east-west from, I was told, Miranda state to the east of Caracas. That lasted a few years, but they soon realized that a megawatt on 1240 covered less than Rumbos' 100 kw on 570, so they shut it off eventually.