Is "God's Not Dead (Like a Lion)" by Newsboys & Kevin Max Considered a Worship Song?

[AMFMRadFan]

Is "God's Not Dead (Like a Lion)" by Newsboys & Kevin Max Considered a Worship Song?

Hi everyone. I went to my parents' church yesterday morning on Sunday morning 11/24/2013, and was very disappointed to find that the worship team was singing "God's Not Dead (Like a Lion)" by Newsboys & Kevin Max. The church, which will remain nameless, is located in Cartersville, GA just northwest of Atlanta. Does it offend me that the church included the song in their song service? No, it does not. I just think that the church was in the wrong to include the song in the song service. Is "God's Not Dead (Like a Lion)" by Newsboys & Kevin Max really considered to be an actual worship song? I most certainly don't think so. I checked KSBJ's playlist out in Houston, TX. They play the song in their regular rotation. As for during their Sunday morning show "Enter His Gates", they do not play it at all AFAIK. When I first heard the song on radio earlier this year, I knew right from the get-go that it wasn't a worship song. It's Christian rock is what the song really is. I can understand that in a market like the Atlanta market and in the Rome, GA/Cartersville, GA submarket, if you don't listen carefully, it's easy to mistake a song for a worship song. Even with all the radio stations across the combined markets of Rome, GA/Cartersville, GA and Atlanta, GA: 104.7 The FISH WFSH-FM Athens, GA-Atlanta, GA, 93.3 The JOY FM WVFJ-FM Manchester, GA-Atlanta, GA, 93.5 Life FM WSRM-FM Coosa, GA-Rome, GA, Victory 91.5 WWEV Cumming, GA, and IBN (Immanuel Broadcasting Network) THE PRAISE FM @ 91.7 FM WCCV in Cartersville, GA. None of those stations have true worship shows. I don't want to be riding along in the car with my parents to church on Sunday morning listening to the "Keep the Faith" show with Keith Stevens on 104.7 The FISH, listening to "God's Not Dead (Like a Lion)" by Newsboys & Kevin Max, or Brandon Heath's "Give Me Your Eyes", or tobyMac's "Lose My Soul" & "City On Our Knees", or anything similar on the other stations. My only true worship fix is while I'm getting ready for church on Sunday morning. I listen to "The Sounds of Faith" with Jim Hutto on Great 88/88.9 FM WMSL in Athens, GA online at http://www.great88.net/. Of course, the Great 88 has more of a traditional sound, but I'm very thankful they don't include anything electronica, hip-hop, metal, rap, rock, or ska. If I were a DJ, which I'm not but if I were, I would combine both "The Sounds of Faith" & "Enter His Gates" models for a Sunday morning praise & worship show. I'd include artists like Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, Gary Chapman, Steven Curtis Chapman, Allen Asbury, Andy Park, Aaron Shust, Citipointe Church, Avalon, Babbie Mason, Bart Millard, Kristy Starling & Victory Church, Bob Fitts, Jamie Owens-Collins, Brent Helming, Brenton Brown, Brian Doerksen, Carlos Whittaker, Fee, Carman, Charlie LeBlanc, Sara Groves, Lindell Cooley, Chris Rice, Chris Tomlin, Charlie Hall, Charles Billingsley, Jadon Lavik, Damaris Carbaugh, Karen Wheaton, Darrell Evans, Dallas Holm, Dana Blackwood, Darlene Zschech, David Phelps, Don Francisco, David Ritter, Steve Ragsdale, Don Moen, Randy Rothwell, Debby Boone, Rita Springer, Bill Gaither Trio, Gaither Vocal Band, Gateway Worship, Kari Jobe, Glad, Michael English, Cindy Morgan, Cheri Keaggy, Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir, Christ Church Choir, Harvest, Haven Quartet, Hillsong, Hillsong United, The Imperials, Russ Taff, Jaci Velasquez, Nicole C. Mullen, Jeff Searles, Cindy Rethmeier, Kelly Willard & Lenny LeBlanc, Michael Card & John Michael Talbot, Kenneth Copeland, Sarah Hart Pearsons, Phil Driscoll, Phil Johnson, Laura Story, Christy Nockels, Laura Hackett & Cory Asbury, Jonathan Stockstill, LeAnn Albrecht, Christine Wyrtzen, Bebo Norman, Meredith Andrews, Fernando Ortega, John Tesh, First Call, Masters Chorale, Jeremy Camp, Kristian Stanfill, Lincoln Brewster, Natalie Grant, The Maranatha! Singers, The Maranatha! Strings, MercyMe, Tony Melendez, North Point Church, Seth Condrey, Keith Green, Steve Green, Steve Camp, Scott Wesley Brown, Steve Darmody, Steve Merkel, Third Day, Wes King, Paul Baloche, Rita Baloche, SONICFLOOd, Newsboys (actual worship songs like "Blessed Be Your Name", "I Am Free"), Delirious, Matt Redman, David Crowder Band, Kim Walker-Smith, Jesus Culture, Misty Edwards, Promise Keepers, Maranatha! Promise Band, Phillips, Craig, & Dean, Sandi Patty, Larnelle Harris, Ron Kenoly, 4Him, Point of Grace, 2nd Chapter of Acts, Chuck Girard, Rich Mullins, Scott Underwood, Robin Mark, Ross Parsley & New Life Worship, Jars of Clay, Selah, Casting Crowns, Newsong, Rebecca St. James, Todd Agnew, Kathryn Scott, Tammy Trent, Twila Paris, Wayne Watson, and other artists similar to them. As for the songs that are non-worship, I would include those in the Monday-Saturday regular rotation as well as on Sunday afternoons after 12PM (12 Noon) and Sunday evenings & overnights. I apologize for this being a lengthy post. Anyway, if you want to sound off your opinion on whether or not "God's Not Dead (Like a Lion)" by Newsboys & Kevin Max is really considered an actual worship song, you're more than welcome to comment below. That is all. Thank you.

 

[Stevens]

Hi everyone. I went to my parents' church yesterday morning on Sunday morning 11/24/2013, and was very disappointed to find that the worship team was singing "God's Not Dead (Like a Lion)" by Newsboys & Kevin Max. The church, which will remain nameless, is located in Cartersville, GA just northwest of Atlanta. Does it offend me that the church included the song in their song service? No, it does not. I just think that the church was in the wrong to include the song in the song service.

Have you taken a moment to ask the music minister/worship leader why the song was included? Seems like the logical first step.

 

[AMFMRadFan]

Have you taken a moment to ask the music minister/worship leader why the song was included? Seems like the logical first step.

I think I know why the worship leader, who will remain nameless, included the song in the song service. The 1st part of the chorus speaks for itself. The fact that God's not dead, He's surely alive. Yes, that's true. But if a song has electronica, hip-hop, metal, rap, rock, or ska in it, it's not worshipful. It doesn't have the ummph needed for the song to be worshipful. When I heard "God's Not Dead (Like a Lion)" by Newsboys & Kevin Max performed in the song service, it got me thinking the fact that Eva Mae LeFevre must be rolling over in her grave because back in the day she was against the use of guitars. She didn't want her son Mylon LeFevre using them. Of course, everything's changed since then, and guitars are used a lot these days. Now I'm not against the use of guitars. I'm just against NextGen (Next Generation) songs, the electronica, hip-hop, metal, rap, rock, and ska songs being performed in song services on Sunday mornings. Switchfoot's "Meant to Live", Red's "Breathe Into Me", Skillet's "Rebirthing", and other similar songs are good. They're just not good enough for Sunday morning.

 

[Stevens]

I think I know why the worship leader, who will remain nameless, included the song in the song service.

Until you specifically ask that person, you don't know. Even then, you may not know. The worship leader may not know. Hearing that song, at that time, in that service may have eternally impacted the life of someone in that congregation. None of us know what God's purpose for using that song may have been. I'm sorry but it's not up to our opinion of what style is right or wrong or good enough.

 

[RadioFan123]

To my knowledge, the Bible doesn't say that a worship song has to sound a certain way. If you only feel like you can worship God while singing hymns, then sing hymns. If you can focus on God better while singing a rock song, then sing rock songs.

 

[xmusicmatt]

Everyone has their own worship styles. Nothing wrong with worship styles that engage the current culture and maybe bring them closer to God. If you don't like that style I am sure there is a church I am sure that meets your needs. I don't think as believers we should write off one style because it's not something we like. I'm not a big fan of "choirs" but I know they have their place in worship services. As we further slip into a mainstream society we should be willing to embrace people as they are and where they are at (not saying accepting sin etc..) but if a person feels they can find a connection to God via a rock band more than a hymn then I say that's a good thing.

Btw.. Newsboys did not write "God's Not Dead" (Like a Lion).

It was written by Daniel Bashta. Here is a piece I found online that Daniel talks about the song: http://blog.proclaimonline.com/2013/03/19/behind-the-songs-daniel-bashtas-like-a-lion/

 

[AMFMRadFan]

Well, you guys all make good points. I recently heard the David Crowder Band version and the Daniel Bashta version of the song. In both versions, I couldn't sing along on account of my disappointment. I was thinking "No, not David Crowder Band." I expected better from them. There's also a Chris Tomlin version, but I have no idea of how it sounds. I wish I had heard the David Crowder Band version prior to hearing the Newsboys & Kevin Max version. Then I would be comfortable with the song being a worship song. The only thing I really don't like about the Newsboys & Kevin Max version is how they start the chorus back up right after the bridge. They whisper "My God's not dead, He's surely alive." When you hear a song with that kind of whispering in it, you should know right away that the song isn't a worship song. I guess the rules have changed now. In the David Crowder Band version, there's no whispering of any kind whatsoever. I will never look at that song the same way again. The damage to worship has been done. What next? Will Robin Thicke's "Blurred Lines" be Christianized into a song hypothetically being called "God Lines" and the part of the chorus going "God lines. I know you want Him. I know you want Him. I know you want Him?" What about Psy's "Gangnam Style" being Christianized into a song hypothetically being called "Jesus Style" and it goes "Open Jesus style. Huh. Huh. Huh. Huh. Open Jesus style. Huh. Huh. Huh. Huh. Jesus style?" What about Katy Perry's "Firework" being Christianized into a song hypothetically being called "Jesus, You're a firework?" This is unacceptable, and we can't sit back and let it happen. Last time I checked, Jesus isn't a firework or any other inanimate object. But, the church in general have spoken. If they say that "God's Not Dead (Like a Lion)" is a worship song, fine, it's a worship song. Because of this behavior, I will never set foot inside a church again, and I will never listen to any of The FISH stations, The JOY FM, KSBJ, or Victory 91.5 WWEV-FM in Cumming, GA ever again. I can't just go to another church because unfortunately, I can't drive because of my history of having seizures, and I never learned how to drive. I apologize for wasting everyone's time with this thread. That is all.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

No -its not a waste of everybody's time. It is a legitimate question, and one that speaks to a real conflict in Christian radio vs. church music. I've said all along that there are songs performed in a church setting - no matter what the style - that do NOT make good radio cuts. And vise versa - some songs on the radio, regardless of style, do NOT belong in churches because they are too hard for church bands to perform properly, or for the congregation to sing. The two venues are completely different and should be treated differently. I should emphasize two things -

(1) (Again) this discussion has nothing to do with style - the Hallelujah Chorus does NOT belong as a hymn in a hymnal, because it is too complex for the congregation, for example.
(2) I am NOT referring to secular songs that have no business on Christian radio or in a church hymnal - like John Lennon's Imagine (which unfortunately I have seen in more than one denomination's hymnal).

That said - I have been in a web debate with the good folks at dial the truth (and they are good folks) over Christian music for almost 18 years. Except for music and translations, I agree with just about everything on their site. But they are wrong on music. Psalm 33:2-3 talks about some loud music, as does Psalm 150. As a matter of fact, the instruments described in Psalm 150 sound a whole lot like a modern worship band - the type you would find in a youth worship service. So dwelling on style as a guide to what is holy or not leads to an inevitable conclusion - the youth services are probably closer to the music of King David's time than the organ and choir in the adult service. But the Bible is almost silent on musical styles, so it is not good to go around criticizing musical styles. Not every style will be liked by every person - there is no universally acceptable musical style. Frankly, I think if you are offended by a song in the service, your best course of action is to step into the hall, and be thankful that the song is reaching people unlike yourself. And the same goes for Christian radio. Change the station, don't criticize the artist, song, or station because they are simply reaching somebody different than you with that song. You do not know the spiritual condition of the artist, the motivation of church music direction / station music director, etc. Putting yourself in a position of judgement over somebody else is exercising Lordship over them, and that is a BIG problem. It is not your responsibility to be a music judge. So - DON'T!

 

[R.D.P.]

I remember buying a Hymns CD, a few months ago. The title escapes my mind right now but glad I no longer have that CD. It featured the tune called My Sweet Lord by George Harrison. It was an instrumental version. Liked it but never could figure out why that song was featured on a Hymns recording. Not giving praise to George Harrison. His music doesn't appeal to me at all.

Concerning God's Not Dead song, I love it. I see nothing wrong with it myself. The message is awesome. The way I heard it from Crower and The Newsboys was fabulous. They did a fine job with their respected versions. If a Church wants to perform that song, then more power to them. Let them do it. The song speaks truth and tells people that we still serve a living God, who'll never change or go away.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I remember buying a Hymns CD, a few months ago. The title escapes my mind right now but glad I no longer have that CD. It featured the tune called My Sweet Lord by George Harrison. It was an instrumental version. Liked it but never could figure out why that song was featured on a Hymns recording. Not giving praise to George Harrison. His music doesn't appeal to me at all.

George Harrison publicly stated that My Sweet Lord was a deliberate attempt at deception - you start out with a very good song praising God, then end up halfway through praising the false religion of Hare Krishna. That said - the instrumental version, devoid of deceptive lyrics, may be OK. Why? Because it has happened before. The tune for Amazing Grace was an old brothel song. The tune for What Child is This was Greensleeves - which I believe was written by mass murderer Henry VIII. But - perhaps time has to pass so the original associations are lost. Definitely a bit of a gray area. I would probably pass on an instrumental version of My Sweet Lord even if it otherwise fit the format. I would definitely pass on Imagine - even if redeemed with Christian lyrics. It is too much associated with atheism and communism to belong on Christian airwaves - even with different lyrics people would remember the atheist version.

We had quite a debate over some secular songs done by Christians, and having scripturally sound messages. I took a lot of heat for playing them on the air. But scriptural truth, delivered by artists who are Christians, deserves airplay on Christian stations even if it is not released through Christian music distribution channels in Nashville and happens to be on the secular charts.

I also took heat for NOT playing some songs people liked that were secular like "Spirit in the Sky" (heresy - ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory ---). I also took some heat for not playing some songs people heard on other CCM stations - that didn't fit our format. Sandy Patti does NOT rock in the musical sense. It was kind of difficult, because we were the ONLY people in town playing any sort of CCM at all, the nearest true CCM station was 110 miles away. Frankly, I was surprised how many people DX'ed it.

 

[vchimpanzee]

To my knowledge, the Bible doesn't say that a worship song has to sound a certain way. If you only feel like you can worship God while singing hymns, then sing hymns. If you can focus on God better while singing a rock song, then sing rock songs.

This isn't about radio, but I don't like the direction my church is taking. We have a really conservative music director who also plays the organ and piano and teaches at the local college. For several years now soloists or small groups have been singing along with tapes in the 11:00 service. I can't recall exactly how often, but if I have advance warning, I make plans to be elsewhere. And once I know what's happening, I make sure to be outside. Even there, I can hear the noise. That's how loud it is. Whether it's contemporary or traditional, I can't say. It sounds contemporary to me, especially when they turn it that loud. Now my church has decided fourth Sundays will be different. There was talk of a contemporary service, but that went nowhere.

But I appreciate anyone who is on my side in this. This is noise when it isn't about God. If it is about God, it doesn't matter to me that some people say that if it's about God it must be all right. It's still just noise, and worse noise because not only at Christmas but on Sunday morning, I'm even less open to music that doesn't sound traditional.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Frankly, I think if you are offended by a song in the service, your best course of action is to step into the hall

There are speakers in the hall. I have to go outside.

And yesterday it was cold outside. But I could hear bass guitar and drums on a CD all the way out to the far end of the parking lot. With the door to the church closed.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

There are speakers in the hall. I have to go outside.

And yesterday it was cold outside. But I could hear bass guitar and drums on a CD all the way out to the far end of the parking lot. With the door to the church closed.

Wow, that is quite a conviction against Christian rock music. ou I can sympathize - though not agree on musical style. But you will get no judgement here, only fellowship. If you have that much of a conviction against the music, then you absolutely shouldn't listen! YOu need to do whatever it takes to go to a different church that has music more to your taste, and that doesn't cause you spiritual problems. If the 4th Sunday has music you don't like - do not go. I think you should spearhead the effort to start a youth / contemporary service so you can have church your way, and the youth and young adult can have church their way. That is how denominations started - people wanted to worship differently. Just don't judge people who like the other music - look on it as a positive thing for them, and for you, and God will bless the effort.

I am not comfortable continuing this thread off the subject of radio - so I am out.

 

[anotherguyTN]

I agree with Dan and Bruce that the song could be appropriate for worship depending on the audience and the arrangement of the song. Just because it's a song by the Newsboys doesn't mean there aren't other arrangements where the song couldn't be used for worship. Perhaps not for a regular Sunday morning worship service, but if this was for a youth day or some youth event at another time then it would be OK.

VChimp,
Going by what you posted I'd guess that although your music director is conservative in what he does, he is at least open to newer music and like it or not, that's a good thing. I agree with Bruce that if you don't like the CCM that is being done in your church then you have two main choices. Either don't go when it's being done or move to another church. But don't be surprised if all you can find with music you are willing to accept is an ultra-conservative church where you might find the music more acceptable but could have bad theology because like it or not more and more churches are accepting CCM, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as it's Biblically sound.

I'd rather be in a church where the teaching is Biblically sound and I might not like the music (And yes that has happened to me at times where I thought the music was too traditional) than to be in a church where I liked the music but the teaching was bad, and that applies regardless of the musical style. Too many times people get bent out of shape over the music in church because they don't want their "innocent ears" to hear guitars or drums or when they need to worry more about what is being taught from the pulpit.

 

[R.D.P.]

I place a high emphasis on what's being said, first and foremost. The music is secondary to me. As long as the Preacher is telling the truth, that's a good thing.

Dan <><

 

[vchimpanzee]

VChimp,
Going by what you posted I'd guess that although your music director is conservative in what he does, he is at least open to newer music and like it or not, that's a good thing.

The music director is a she, and she doesn't have a say in this.

I'd rather be in a church where the teaching is Biblically sound and I might not like the music (And yes that has happened to me at times where I thought the music was too traditional) than to be in a church where I liked the music but the teaching was bad, and that applies regardless of the musical style. Too many times people get bent out of shape over the music in church because they don't want their "innocent ears" to hear guitars or drums or when they need to worry more about what is being taught from the pulpit.

I'm not going to put up with this "music" under any circumstances.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I place a high emphasis on what's being said, first and foremost. The music is secondary to me. As long as the Preacher is telling the truth, that's a good thing.

Dan <><

I'm not putting up with noise under any circumstances. There is a place for organ and piano and that's that.

 

[R.D.P.]

My home Church does the Hymns music. The contemporary stuff is avoided on purpose. It doesn't have mass appeal with most of our members.

Dan <><

 

[anotherguyTN]

My home Church does the Hymns music. The contemporary stuff is avoided on purpose. It doesn't have mass appeal with most of our members.

Dan <><

If a church is mostly older and prefers traditional music that's OK. On the other hand if they're mostly younger and are open to CCM then that's OK too. I do believe that in either case the lyrics should be Biblically sound. I attend a church that had a wide range of ages and does a mix of both and like it. If there is anyone that isn't willing to go along with it, they're at least not causing problems over it.

I'm not going to put up with this "music" under any circumstances. ...

I'm not putting up with noise under any circumstances. There is a place for organ and piano and that's that.

You need to take a good look at Psalm 150.

If you're going to be THAT intolerant, you definitely DO need to change churches. But don't be surprised if you don't find a church that meets your standards, with the possible exception of some Churches of Christ that don't have any instrumental music, but then that gets back into the question of if you're possibly going to hear teachings you don't agree with. I'm willing to tolerate music I might not like the style of and know the preaching is right.

 

[vchimpanzee]

You need to take a good look at Psalm 150.

If you're going to be THAT intolerant, you definitely DO need to change churches. But don't be surprised if you don't find a church that meets your standards, with the possible exception of some Churches of Christ that don't have any instrumental music, but then that gets back into the question of if you're possibly going to hear teachings you don't agree with. I'm willing to tolerate music I might not like the style of and know the preaching is right.

I'm not listening to Psalm 150. I don't care what it says. This is how the 11:00 service should be, and that's that.

I don't like the idea of having to drive to a distant church where there are enough members to make both sides happy with multiple services, so I probably won't.

There is a TV service that is how I want a service to be. I assume this particular church has a contemporary service early.

There is another church nearby that I used to go to as a child which I've heard people say is losing members because it is not open to change, although on children's Sunday the kids sang along with this really loud taped music (why was I there? it was the fourth Sunday at my church, meaning "different" music). One good thing is they not only didn't have the volume turned up nearly as loud as the music at my church, but someone also turned it down after the first kid started. When other kids started singing, that was my cue to leave.

I had to open the door at the entrance to hear whether it was over. There is a wall and another door to the sanctuary, while my church doesn't have a wall or close the door at the entrance to the sanctuary (there are flexible dividers behind the sanctuary). The last time I went outside to avoid one of those songs I don't like, I could hear bass guitar and drums all the way out to the parking lot, with the main door closed. This is part of the problem.

Still, the other church I mentioned doesn't have an organist. The music is acceptable (traditional enough) but not ideal. And the services are too long.