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Is it illegal to watch an out of market TV station ???

Miles917 said:
It would be interesting to live in Baltimore or DC. You could pick up quite a few channels from two huge markets.
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From what I understand, the distance between Baltimore & DC is roughly the same as it is from Denver to Boulder. If you remove the mountains, Denver & Boulder would basically be seperate markets
 
schmave said:
WGN used to black out its own morning news on the superstation. Many said it was because of syndex, which must have meant certain syndicated bits aired within the news. Can't think of another reason local news would have to be blacked out beyond its own market, but I think WGN blacked out more because they wanted to than because they had to.
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Well if they "Had" to black out out the MORNING newscast, wouldn't it stand to reason for them to black out the EVENING newscast as well ??
 
JeeperOne said:
From what I understand, the distance between Baltimore & DC is roughly the same as it is from Denver to Boulder. If you remove the mountains, Denver & Boulder would basically be seperate markets
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No. Denver's long defined TV market is 63 counties in CO, NE and WY.

Unlike the East, where close but separated major cities got their own set of allocations between the first batch of post-war TV licenses and the 1953 post-freeze period, many western areas in that era did not have many cases of close-by major cities.

TV markets, whether ADIs or DMAs, were defined by viewership, not distances. Since Baltimore residents preferred Baltimore TV, and DC residents wanted to watch DC TV, the markets always remained separate.
 
I was talking in terms of MILEAGE David (Denver & Boulder are seperated by roughly 40 DENSELY populated miles, which is about the same as Baltimore is from DC from what I understand, though I can't speak as to the density of the population however)

Pat
 
DavidEduardo said:


No. Denver's long defined TV market is 63 counties in CO, NE and WY.

Unlike the East, where close but separated major cities got their own set of allocations between the first batch of post-war TV licenses and the 1953 post-freeze period, many western areas in that era did not have many cases of close-by major cities.

TV markets, whether ADIs or DMAs, were defined by viewership, not distances. Since Baltimore residents preferred Baltimore TV, and DC residents wanted to watch DC TV, the markets always remained separate.
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Denver TV can be seen on cable in Burns, OR, and Dillon, MT. Why I'm not sure. Both markets have availability to locals...Burns to Bend and/or Portland, and Dillon to Butte, Missoula and/or Bozeman.
 
JeeperOne said:
I was talking in terms of MILEAGE David (Denver & Boulder are seperated by roughly 40 DENSELY populated miles, which is about the same as Baltimore is from DC from what I understand, though I can't speak as to the density of the population however)
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Again, TV markets were originally defined by ARB and Nielsen based on viewership, not distance.

And in 1946, between Denver and Boulder as well as between Baltimore and Washington was much rural land. But Baltimore was a big market with its own early TV stations, and so was DC. Early CO TV was centered on Denver, and thus the viewing patterns in those 60 counties was very different.
 
seatownmedia said:
Denver TV can be seen on cable in Burns, OR, and Dillon, MT. Why I'm not sure. Both markets have availability to locals...Burns to Bend and/or Portland, and Dillon to Butte, Missoula and/or Bozeman.
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Those are likely historical exceptions.

Here is last year's DMA map. Colored areas are metered or coded, white areas are diary markets.

http://www.thevab.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2016-2017TVDMARegionMap_Small_v4.pdf

Note the DMA definition:

DMA® region: Generally a group of counties in which the commercial TV stations in the
Metro/Central area achieve the largest audience share. This is non-overlapping geography
for planning, buying and evaluating television audiences across various markets. See the
Local Reference Supplement for more information
 
seatownmedia said:
Denver TV can be seen on cable in Burns, OR, and Dillon, MT. Why I'm not sure. Both markets have availability to locals...Burns to Bend and/or Portland, and Dillon to Butte, Missoula and/or Bozeman.
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Dillon, MT has Butte locals on cable. Just ABC from Denver
https://tvlistings.zap2it.com/api/p...18-11-04T02:00Z&dstOffset=-360&stdOffset=-420

Burns just has CBS & NBC from Denver...rest are Portland
https://tvlistings.zap2it.com/api/p...18-11-04T02:00Z&dstOffset=-420&stdOffset=-480
 
JeeperOne said:
Nevertheless, RF signals know no such limitations (And THAT is what people will go by. NOT what Arbitron & Nielsen say)
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Arbitron no longer says anything about TV as they withdrew from television measurement, but the ADI definitions are still referred to sometimes.

Nielsen uses actual viewership for its definitions. Since over 80% of TV viewing is not over the air, RF signals, it does not matter what the RF does... it matters what the cable systems carry.
 
DavidEduardo said:


Arbitron no longer says anything about TV as they withdrew from television measurement, but the ADI definitions are still referred to sometimes.

Nielsen uses actual viewership for its definitions. Since over 80% of TV viewing is not over the air, RF signals, it does not matter what the RF does... it matters what the cable systems carry.
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But again - Average, ordinary viewers ARE NOT going to GIVE A RATS FINK about that

All they're going to care about is there's this signal (Albeit from FAR AWAY) that they can receive OTA & they wanna watch what's on that station (They're not going to care if a local station carries THAT SAME show only an hour later or not. They wanna watch it AT THAT MOMENT & if they can get a decent, stable picture (Even in the age of DTV), THEY aARE GOING TO WATCH IT THEN !!)

In short, average viewers could CARE LESS about "Syndex Rules". To them, it's GREEK !!

Pat
 
JeeperOne said:
But again - Average, ordinary viewers ARE NOT going to GIVE A RATS FINK about that

All they're going to care about is there's this signal (Albeit from FAR AWAY) that they can receive OTA & they wanna watch what's on that station (They're not going to care if a local station carries THAT SAME show only an hour later or not. They wanna watch it AT THAT MOMENT & if they can get a decent, stable picture (Even in the age of DTV), THEY aARE GOING TO WATCH IT THEN !!)

In short, average viewers could CARE LESS about "Syndex Rules". To them, it's GREEK !!

Pat
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But the fact is that most viewing in the DMA areas is to the home stations to that DMA, because that's what the cable systems they have available carry. Such a small portion of viewing is OTA that it does not matter if there is RF over their location or not.

And if we get into details, a large percentage of the 20% that don't have cable (or a parallel satellite system) are Hispanic, and there is not much of a syndication market in Spanish language broadcast TV, so it's even fewer people affected by OTA of English language syndicated or network product.
 
DavidEduardo said:


But the fact is that most viewing in the DMA areas is to the home stations to that DMA, because that's what the cable systems they have available carry. Such a small portion of viewing is OTA that it does not matter if there is RF over their location or not.

And if we get into details, a large percentage of the 20% that don't have cable (or a parallel satellite system) are Hispanic, and there is not much of a syndication market in Spanish language broadcast TV, so it's even fewer people affected by OTA of English language syndicated or network product.
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Look, you're talking about APPLES & I'm talking about CARROTS & neither one of us are getting one of us are getting anywhere (In fact, we're just spinning our wheels). so let's just move on

I get the the BUSINESS & REGULATORY side of it. But do YOU get the fact that most people (Whatever the percentage of the total population is that gets their TV via antenna) ARE NOT GOING TO CARE ABOUT ANYTHING YOU HAVE BEEN POSTING ??

I speak as someone wh IS NOT in the biz (But has enough KNOWLEDGE OF IT to KNOW MORE than the average, ordinary viewer would)

Pat
 
JeeperOne said:
With TEGNA owning KGW, I expect the latter to change

Pat
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Well, Tegna has owned KGW (previously Gannett), for many years. Why would they all of a sudden change this, unless it is perhaps off their radar, which is more likely. Afterall, Burns is an extremely small town, (under 3,000 people). The only reason I know of this cable lineup is due to it being a motel stopoff. I doubt anyone at Tegna is aware of this, and even if they were, probably don't care.
 
seatownmedia said:
Well, Tegna has owned KGW (previously Gannett), for many years. Why would they all of a sudden change this, unless it is perhaps off their radar, which is more likely. Afterall, Burns is an extremely small town, (under 3,000 people). The only reason I know of this cable lineup is due to it being a motel stopoff. I doubt anyone at Tegna is aware of this, and even if they were, probably don't care.
Click to expand...

Syndex shouldn't apply in white areas for OTA TV IMHO
 
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