• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Is it possible for Cleveland to sustain three sports stations?

ClevelandRadioFan

ClevelandRadioFan

Is it realistic to think that in five years, 1100, 92.3, and 850 will still be in business?

Obviously, 1100 isn't gong anywhere, but what of the other two? Which is more likely to fold, if any?
 
Of course WTAM is a news talk station with some sports. I would think two all sports stations for any market is about right. In New York it's WFAN, which is all local and WEPN,the ESPN station. Three all sports stations in a market is a bit overkill. Can all three make money?

A good example is Miami-Fort Lauderdale where there are three sports stations on very good frequencies and WMEN which booms into Broward and northern Dade counties, which makes four sports stations..and there isn't even one all news station.

I wish there were plans for a national news network running 24/7, ala NIS in the 70's. It just seems there is an overload of sports programming pretty much everywhere.
 
ClevelandRadioFan said:
Is it realistic to think that in five years, 1100, 92.3, and 850 will still be in business?

Obviously, 1100 isn't gong anywhere, but what of the other two? Which is more likely to fold, if any?
Click to expand...

WTAM is a news talk station that just happens to carry the games.

There are 3 all sports stations--WKNR (mostly local with Mike and Mike and Jim Rome), WWGK (mostly ESPN), and WKRK (mostly local)

Throw in rock/talk/sports man cave station WMMS, and that's 5 stations going for pretty much the same demo.

1100 and 100.7 are both solid as a rock and are going nowhere. CBS is just starting their own 24/7 sports network, so "The Fan" is in it for the long haul. That leaves WKNR and by extension WWGK.

They are not in the running for any PBP, and may lose 2 vaulabe assets (Jim Rome and OSU). So 850 is the most vulnerable (and if they go down, 1540 is going with it).
 
I predict WKNR would go down before 92.3 will. If that happens I would like to see Bruce Hooley and Greg Brinda land on 92.3 in some capacity. Fedor, and Goldhammer can drift off into oblivion because neither one is worth an ounce of salt. Fedor just takes the opposite position to argue, and Goldhammer is much the same way but since they are Karmazin's boys they won't be going anywhere.
 
Possible? Maybe. Probable? No. In Pittsburgh, there were three all sports staitons, 93.7 The Fan, 970 (Now ESPN) and 1250 ( was ESPN). Although 1250 was the ratings leader, it bled money, and after losing the rights to the Steelers and Pitt Panthers, dropped ESPN and local programming at the end of 2010 and went Radio Disney.
 
Craig Karmazin chuckles every time we underestimate him (myself included).

He is, as I've heard numerous times, a wizard at non-traditional sports marketing and sales. He probably makes a decent chunk of change off of 850.

The competition makes it tough. WTAM has "all the balls"...and it and WMMS are not "sports stations", but are the big destination for PBP.

WKRK has CBS' nationwide and local commitment to the sports format, and even with the network coming on board, 92.3 will still be local full time except post-midnight and weekend nights, with the only change being that you'll hear CBS Sports Radio network programming in those off-hours vs. Fox Sports Radio now.

WKRK is one of the full-time large market CBS sports talkers, so any regional programming will likely be going OUT from it to smaller market Cumulus stations (Youngstown, Toledo?).

My guess could be wrong.

But as vjm noted, all of these stations...WKNR/WWGK, WKRK, WTAM/WMMS...are fishing in the same pool for listeners.

And what keeps the lower-rated (than WTAM/WMMS) "sports stations" alive is that there's a lot of money in the format, and that's only getting better.

Sports "power ratios" (ratings translated to revenue) are legendary. WFAN in NYC is one of the highest billing stations in that market, but to the best of my knowledge, it's never actually been "number one" ratings wise.
 
Going into the next 2, 3, 4, 5 years or so, it'll be very interesting to see how many music radio stations go some kind of news, talk, or sportstalk. Wonder how many spoken word formats a market will support. I think we're going to find out how many all over the US.

Now that there's a boatload of other music sources (on-line streaming stations, Pandora/Spotify/etc. sources, MP3 players, etc.)...radio will lose enough listeners to these other music sources it could hurt their revenues enough to be a concern.

Believe me...radio station group owners and stand-alone owners, expecially in medium and large markets are well aware that the future of radio...a formerly cash-cow industry, will be challenging.

Or to put it bluntly...seeing things are they are in 2012...who in their right mind would want to own an over-the-air-radio station (unless it's a hobby)? For us lifetime radio lovers, this is sad. But, it's reality.
 
Yes, it's entirely possible for multiple sports stations to survive, and thrive. Sports is a huge business. Look at all the sports bars, all the local teams (3 pro, 3 minor league baseball, 1 minor league hockey, countless colleges, and the huge OSU fan base in NEO), that literally make millions on sports fan revenues. And, there must be about a dozen sports cable networks. Yes, the sports pie is big enough for multiple stations to chase the market.

WTAM is still first and foremost a news/talk station that carries sports, and ranks near the top of the market. WKNR (when Arbitron still posted their numbers), beat WKRK by a significant amount in the 6+ numbers. The stations with the challenges? WMMS (probably ranks very well in it's target 18-34 male demos, but not a top 10 market station overall), and WKRK (limited signal and promotion). Sure, they're FM, but both 850 and 1100 have done well in keeping target male demos tuned into the AM band.

As always, it's the personalities and hosts that draw you in, and so long as the station is listenable when you want to hear it, doesn't matter if it's AM or FM. And, if you have a host with a significant following, people will keep listening to you.
 
Tim said:
Going into the next 2, 3, 4, 5 years or so, it'll be very interesting to see how many music radio stations go some kind of news, talk, or sportstalk. Wonder how many spoken word formats a market will support?
Click to expand...

Well, we already have WMMS going in that direction with their hybrid rock/talk/sports "man cave" format.

Female skewing stations (i.e. The Fish, WDOK, Q 104, maybe throw Kiss in there as well) will have a better shot at success long term with music formats.


As far as spoken word formats go, in Cleveland alone we have WTAM, the 3 sports stations, conservatalk WHK, urban talk WERE, WCPN (NPR), and stations like WHKW and WCRF that feature "preach and teach" formats, so that's 9, and if you want to stretch it and include WMMS and their man cave format, that makes 10.

I'm not counting WEOL (Lorain County) or WABQ and WELW (Lake County) due to their limited scope.
 
OhioMediaWatch said:
WKRK is one of the full-time large market CBS sports talkers, so any regional programming will likely be going OUT from it to smaller market Cumulus stations (Youngstown, Toledo?).

My guess could be wrong.
Click to expand...

Maybe Kiley & Booms in AMD, and Bull & Fox in PMD?

K & B of course was a national show on FSR.
 
The problem with spreading local sports content to other markets is the lack of interest in that market's local teams beyond a certain reach.

If WKRK offered up K&B and B&F to other stations, who'd take them in their current form? They are both Cleveland-centric local shows, and there'd be no interest certainly, for example, in Pittsburgh. I could see Cumulus Youngstown pick up one or both shows for WBBW/1240, but the folks in the Halle Building aren't going to want to change the local focus even for Youngstown.

I could be wrong.

I could see, say, Browns speciality shows offered up to Youngstown and Toledo, and maybe "battle of the teams" shows between Cleveland and Pittsburgh during Browns/Steelers weeks.
 
When I brought up K & B/B & F, I specifically meant regional syndication to small, nearby markets like Toledo/Youngstown.

I also think that programming from WXYT 97.1 Detroit could wind up in Toledo and stuff from KDKA 93.7 Pittsburgh could go to Youngstown.
 
vjm said:
When I brought up K & B/B & F, I specifically meant regional syndication to small, nearby markets like Toledo/Youngstown.

I also think that programming from WXYT 97.1 Detroit could wind up in Toledo and stuff from KDKA 93.7 Pittsburgh could go to Youngstown.
Click to expand...

I can see that, too, Detroit to Toledo. Remember, the Toledo and Youngstown Cumulus sports stations are putting SOMETHING from CBS Sports Radio when the ESPN Radio contract goes away.

I just wonder how the originating stations (WXYT, WKRK) would feel about it. The shows would likely not change one iota.
 
"Is it possible for Cleveland to sustain three sports stations" ...

Well it will be a question a lot of people are going to be asking country wide as multiple markets now are with multiple sports stations... It will also be interesting how the whole "sports network" game shakes out nationwide..

ESPN
Fox Sports
Yahoo Sports Radio
NBC Sports Network
CBS Sports Network

Will be interesting to see who the winners and who the losers will be in the battle for Sports $$$$.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom