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Is it possible to hear tropo from the northeast to Florida?
- Thread starter nd2023
- Start date
A veteran DXer known as "Ol' Roy" has received Florida on DTV from his DX shack on Cape Cod, Massachusetts. He has recieved WOPX Melbourne, FL, digital ch 48, virtual channel 56 at about 1100 miles. I believe he has a couple other Florida DTV's from the Jacksonville area, but I don't recall which ones. He also has WSAV (DT-39) from Savannah, GA. There is a nice water path from Cape Cod to Florida and Georgia. No such luck for me... I'm land-locked 70 miles North of New York City.
During the Summer of 1998, I heard and recorded, via tropo, a hometown station: 97.9 WRMF/Palm Beach. I picked it up a block from the beach in Narragansett, RI. The tropo was all over the place that day. I picked up Beach 104 from the Outer Banks, and later that day, I recorded Q97.9 out of Portland, ME.
On the other hand, I have never picked up a NE station from Florida. The northernmost stations I have picked up in Florida are all from the Outer Banks. On the other hand, I have picked up FM stations in Louisiana and Texas from the Tampa area.
On the other hand, I have never picked up a NE station from Florida. The northernmost stations I have picked up in Florida are all from the Outer Banks. On the other hand, I have picked up FM stations in Louisiana and Texas from the Tampa area.
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I'm this dirty-white-boy AM DXer from the northeast USA, so I don't know much about FM DX, although I've heard some swell stuff there.
So how do you folks distinguish between Tropo and E-skip?
Always thought that trope was 300 miles and e-skip was 1200 miles ....
So how do you folks distinguish between Tropo and E-skip?
Always thought that trope was 300 miles and e-skip was 1200 miles ....
Back on June 19-20 2007, Keith McGinnis, myself, and Roy received FM tropo as far as 97.9 WRMF and 104.3 WEAT, and Roy heard those and also one or two from Miami. on April 4, 2010, myself and others received 96.5 WHTQ, 101.1 WJRR, 88.5 WMNF, and 94.9 WWRM via tropo. I also received 104.5 from Jacksonville once or twice, but those were definitely the most memorable tropo openings for me.
I live in southeastern MA, about 20 miles south of Boston. WRMF/WEAT is 1194 miles, WHTQ (now WDBO-FM)/WJRR 1092, WMNF/WWRM 1174.
I live in southeastern MA, about 20 miles south of Boston. WRMF/WEAT is 1194 miles, WHTQ (now WDBO-FM)/WJRR 1092, WMNF/WWRM 1174.
I've never heard any tropo from Florida to the NE, probably because I'm on the west coast but I've often gotten tropo from Texas which is about the same distance from central Florida's east coast to the NE.
Houston @ 789 miles...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOgRrH1Q_Xw
Brownsville @ 936 miles...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkRK9nP1Li8
The way to tell the difference is how steady the signal is.
Tropo is a consistent signal with no fading in and out.
E Skip has very rapid fading in and out and usually at least one other station is struggling to dominate the same frequency.
For example, here's E skip reception from Philadelphia @ 927 miles ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O38Ij1HDj10
Back in 1989, I remember hearing a couple FM stations from Houston with very steady signals, so I knew it was tropo.
Then only a couple days later, I heard the same stations except they were unsteady signals with a fast cycle of fading from nothing to very strong. Then I knew it was E skip.
Houston @ 789 miles...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOgRrH1Q_Xw
Brownsville @ 936 miles...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkRK9nP1Li8
The way to tell the difference is how steady the signal is.
Tropo is a consistent signal with no fading in and out.
E Skip has very rapid fading in and out and usually at least one other station is struggling to dominate the same frequency.
For example, here's E skip reception from Philadelphia @ 927 miles ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O38Ij1HDj10
Back in 1989, I remember hearing a couple FM stations from Houston with very steady signals, so I knew it was tropo.
Then only a couple days later, I heard the same stations except they were unsteady signals with a fast cycle of fading from nothing to very strong. Then I knew it was E skip.
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Ah, ya live and learn. Thanks, Gar!
So when we listened for a half hour to Jazz 99 out of Miami here in NEPA (no sign at all of the faithful Jazz WRTI relay on 99.1) before hearing phone lines open for requests in Dade and Brevard counties, we were getting trope ?
Same thing when we had * just * put up a new outdoor TV aerial and the first thing we got -- and the clearest -- was an opera on Channel 2 from Fort Lauderdale?
That's a lot of trope !
Thankx again for the clarification.
So when we listened for a half hour to Jazz 99 out of Miami here in NEPA (no sign at all of the faithful Jazz WRTI relay on 99.1) before hearing phone lines open for requests in Dade and Brevard counties, we were getting trope ?
Same thing when we had * just * put up a new outdoor TV aerial and the first thing we got -- and the clearest -- was an opera on Channel 2 from Fort Lauderdale?
That's a lot of trope !
Thankx again for the clarification.
No, that was e-skip, unless associated with other tropo (such as tropo to NC and SC). E-skip can be stable too. On July 24, 2012, I had stable e-skip from NJ to Miami for hours. I could hear WFEZ in HD for hours when tuning to 93.1. The HD2 didn't drop out. The IBOC even interfered with local WMMR 93.3.
I remember that day July 24, 2012 very well, Nick!
While toy were hearing our Florida stations in your area, I was hearing your stations here.
WIOQ (which is also in my post above)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O38Ij1HDj10
WPST
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv6DtinKnNI
That E Skip event was so big, it even made a local paper in New York state!
http://thedailynewsonline.com/entertainment/article_6da68320-d675-11e1-91e3-0019bb2963f4.html
I've seen somewhat stable E Skip on the old analog TV back when I was living in Jersey and channel 2 from Miami would come in. It would sometimes be steady for maybe up to 30 seconds or so but always do that brief fade away and come right back strong.
But I've never heard stable E skip on FM, though it can happen as you mentioned. I think one of our Chicago area members said they once got a winter time E Skip from Miami that was very steady.
While toy were hearing our Florida stations in your area, I was hearing your stations here.
WIOQ (which is also in my post above)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O38Ij1HDj10
WPST
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv6DtinKnNI
That E Skip event was so big, it even made a local paper in New York state!
http://thedailynewsonline.com/entertainment/article_6da68320-d675-11e1-91e3-0019bb2963f4.html
I've seen somewhat stable E Skip on the old analog TV back when I was living in Jersey and channel 2 from Miami would come in. It would sometimes be steady for maybe up to 30 seconds or so but always do that brief fade away and come right back strong.
But I've never heard stable E skip on FM, though it can happen as you mentioned. I think one of our Chicago area members said they once got a winter time E Skip from Miami that was very steady.
I checked my logs, and the evening of July 24, 2012 I logged several new FM stations, but not from the Florida area, but rather from farther West, primarily Texas and Kansas. The best included "The Buzzard" KZRD-93.9 Dodge City, KS, and KQXC-103.9 Witchita Falls, TX, my most distant of the day at 1445 miles. My location is near Poughkeepsie, NY.
In a way, this is a reply to many of the posts above:
Yes, there have been many notable tropo paths from the New England states to Florida over the years, but they are not as common as the paths from the Northeastern states to Virginia and North Carolina. To have a tropo path from MA to FL, you need to have conditions conducive to tropo over the ENTIRE length of that path. One "blob" of cooler air over any part of that path kills it.
Tropo is more common over the Gulf Of Mexico (in the spring) and the Great Lakes (in the summer). It forms when hot humid air gets pushed over cold water. Tropo over water is usually best from mid-day afternoon to early evening, in direct contrast to tropo over land, which is rare in the after noon and often appears in the pre-dawn hours.
Sporadic-E skip does affect FM (even the 2m amateur band), but for every 100 hours of Es you'll see or hear on the 6m band or TV channel 2, only expect 10 hours on the FM band and about an hour on 2m, its occurrence drops off with frequency. Es reception almost always shows a fading pattern, sometimes severe, but, on rare occasion, I've had perfectly stable Es for half an hour or more. Tropo tends to be steady, but can show a fading pattern, usually very slow (sometimes fast if there are high hills in the path).
One feature of Es is the "skip zone" - the path is actually running way up into the sky (perhaps 60 miles high) and back down. In a typical Es opening, you may have a strong signal from 1000 miles, with no interference from the stations 800, 650, 400 and 250 miles away on the same frequency in exactly the same direction. In fact, if you do get an FM by Es at only 400 miles, you'll be telling people at the convention about that day for years. In tropo, the closer stations are usually stronger and drown out the distant ones (especially the FM BC stations, due to the capture effect). This is rarely not the case, but a phenomenon called "ducting" may allow distant reception whilst ignoring the closer ones.
Yes, there have been many notable tropo paths from the New England states to Florida over the years, but they are not as common as the paths from the Northeastern states to Virginia and North Carolina. To have a tropo path from MA to FL, you need to have conditions conducive to tropo over the ENTIRE length of that path. One "blob" of cooler air over any part of that path kills it.
Tropo is more common over the Gulf Of Mexico (in the spring) and the Great Lakes (in the summer). It forms when hot humid air gets pushed over cold water. Tropo over water is usually best from mid-day afternoon to early evening, in direct contrast to tropo over land, which is rare in the after noon and often appears in the pre-dawn hours.
Sporadic-E skip does affect FM (even the 2m amateur band), but for every 100 hours of Es you'll see or hear on the 6m band or TV channel 2, only expect 10 hours on the FM band and about an hour on 2m, its occurrence drops off with frequency. Es reception almost always shows a fading pattern, sometimes severe, but, on rare occasion, I've had perfectly stable Es for half an hour or more. Tropo tends to be steady, but can show a fading pattern, usually very slow (sometimes fast if there are high hills in the path).
One feature of Es is the "skip zone" - the path is actually running way up into the sky (perhaps 60 miles high) and back down. In a typical Es opening, you may have a strong signal from 1000 miles, with no interference from the stations 800, 650, 400 and 250 miles away on the same frequency in exactly the same direction. In fact, if you do get an FM by Es at only 400 miles, you'll be telling people at the convention about that day for years. In tropo, the closer stations are usually stronger and drown out the distant ones (especially the FM BC stations, due to the capture effect). This is rarely not the case, but a phenomenon called "ducting" may allow distant reception whilst ignoring the closer ones.
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I got this in 2010....on most of the evening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUvieLSbd_s
This was steady too her in Vallejo...In California
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3lSt2-Gaj4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUvieLSbd_s
This was steady too her in Vallejo...In California
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3lSt2-Gaj4
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