• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Is KKBT about to segue to Adult R&B?

R

RobertMoore

Guest
Thats what All Access is reporting on its website today(January 17th), and all roads are pointing to rating slips as the reason. But that's not the only thing happening at 100.3: Spinderella and PJ have also been pink-slipped, so something must be up at "The Beat". Stay tuned....
 
> Thats what All Access is reporting on its website
> today(January 17th), and all roads are pointing to rating
> slips as the reason. But that's not the only thing happening
> at 100.3: Spinderella and PJ have also been pink-slipped, so
> something must be up at "The Beat". Stay tuned....
>

Seems like it would be a pretty drastic move for a station that bills around $40 million...
 
Re: A lot of problems exist with this scenario

Moving KKBT Adult R&B gives LA two Adult R&Bs, one more then needed, as we have KJLH providing that already. Unless RO wanted to force Stevie Wonder to sell, I guess that could happen.

It would leave KPWR as the only full signal Hip Hop, as KXOL is Spanish Urban and KDAY is a joke of a signal and format. Of course CC could flip 92.3 to Hip Hop to fill the void. CC could make a deal with Styles to get the KDAY calls, format and Baka Boyz. Styles probably would like that, after spending 120 million and not having anything to really make a investment on. But Mega Old Skool fans would lose as we would no longer have a Rhythmic Oldies station, but two "Adult Black" stations which really isn't right for a VERY HISPANIC market like Los Angeles. Art Laboe on the Beat would sound really nice too. Yeah, whatever.

And as Radio Researcher said, KKBT already bills 40 million. You dump the Hip Hop and try to add Joyner, kiss half of that goodbye.

KKBT's ratings problems are because of two things, the loss of Steve Harvey and a little pea shooter called KDAY trying to move in on them.


I've got a better idea for RO. Want your Adult R&B? Pull a Jacor, buy KDAY like they bought Groove and eliminate KDAY and flip it to Urban AC. A Urban AC in collaboration with KKBT would make a dynamic Duo that no one else has. Not Emmis and not Clear Channel.
<P ID="signature">______________
Happy 20th Birthday Power 106

JOSH, Moderating the whole Radio-Info radio state of California and Indiana too!

www.myspace.com/radiogeek500</P>
 
Re: A lot of problems exist with this scenario

> Moving KKBT Adult R&B gives LA two Adult R&Bs, one more then
> needed, as we have KJLH providing that already. Unless RO
> wanted to force Stevie Wonder to sell, I guess that could
> happen.

KJLH's signal is no better than KDAY... so we have two small signal fraggers that are limited in potential. The stereotype that all African Americans live in South Central makes KJLH seem better than it really is, in fact.

And Steve is well enough off tht he is not going to be forced to do anything unless he wants to do it. Were Stevie to sell, selling to a Black run company would likely be to his preference over selling it to someone who would drop the format he has invested years and years in sustaining... and the community service KJLH has provided is a whole separate issue.
>
> It would leave KPWR as the only full signal Hip Hop, as KXOL
> is Spanish Urban and KDAY is a joke of a signal and format.

With LA 55% Hipanic under age 35, the real change is KXOL. The bilinguals who listened to Power and The Beat and KDAY left. About a million of them, in fact.

Because of cultural identification and langauge, none of the other stations can do much to compete directly with KXOL, either.

> Of course CC could flip 92.3 to Hip Hop to fill the void.

Mike has done a helluva job with 92.3, and it is a neat, LA focused, multi-ethnic format with sweet adult sales demos. I doubt they would do anything to hurt it, especially going after a younger hip hop audience where the field is full of players and the fragmentation severe.

> CC
> could make a deal with Styles to get the KDAY calls, format
> and Baka Boyz. Styles probably would like that, after
> spending 120 million and not having anything to really make
> a investment on.

I am not sure I get the point here.

On the other hand, there are printed rumors, such as on all access, that Roy Lauglin with some partners... reportedly Randy himself... are looking to put KDAY and Indie in play. Good for Indie, which Roy believes in, and bad for KDAY.

> But Mega Old Skool fans would lose as we
> would no longer have a Rhythmic Oldies station, but two
> "Adult Black" stations which really isn't right for a VERY
> HISPANIC market like Los Angeles. Art Laboe on the Beat
> would sound really nice too. Yeah, whatever.

KXOL already has the Hispanics who left the others. And assuming The Beat goes more adult, we might see KJLH modify its format, too. Nothing is constant.
>
> And as Radio Researcher said, KKBT already bills 40 million.
> You dump the Hip Hop and try to add Joyner, kiss half of
> that goodbye.

But that billing fell in 2005, and they are not going into 2006 well. Investors have punished the Radio One stock, driving it from around $23 to $11 over the LA problems. They have to do something and fast.
>
> KKBT's ratings problems are because of two things, the loss
> of Steve Harvey and a little pea shooter called KDAY trying
> to move in on them.

It is more about KXOL than KDAY, although the biggest problem The Beat has is internal... lower TSL which means lower share.
 
Re: A lot of problems exist with this scenario

> Moving KKBT Adult R&B gives LA two Adult R&Bs, one more then
> needed, as we have KJLH providing that already. Unless RO
> wanted to force Stevie Wonder to sell, I guess that could
> happen.

As long as Mr. Morris is alive and well, don't count on it.

> It would leave KPWR as the only full signal Hip Hop, as KXOL
> is Spanish Urban and KDAY is a joke of a signal and format.
> Of course CC could flip 92.3 to Hip Hop to fill the void. CC
> could make a deal with Styles to get the KDAY calls, format
> and Baka Boyz. Styles probably would like that, after
> spending 120 million and not having anything to really make
> a investment on. But Mega Old Skool fans would lose as we
> would no longer have a Rhythmic Oldies station, but two
> "Adult Black" stations which really isn't right for a VERY
> HISPANIC market like Los Angeles. Art Laboe on the Beat
> would sound really nice too. Yeah, whatever.

I don't see KPWR giving up its Rhythmic Top 40 status to go full-blown R&B/Hip-Hop since they're more concerned with taking on KIIS and holding onto their Hispanics and 18-34 base, of which they seem to be confortable with.

As for Styles, I'm not so sure they would spin off KDAY/KDAI at this point or make a deal with CC to give up the legendary KDAY calls. I believe they are in for the long haul.

In the case of CC flipping KHHT to R&B/Hip-Hop, that could happen down the road but I would take a wait-and-see approach.

> And as Radio Researcher said, KKBT already bills 40 million.
> You dump the Hip Hop and try to add Joyner, kiss half of
> that goodbye.

I agree. But given what just happened in Boston anything can happen.

> KKBT's ratings problems are because of two things, the loss
> of Steve Harvey and a little pea shooter called KDAY trying
> to move in on them.

I also agree. I also think that The Beat needs to evaluate what they are doing wrong from all angles.

> I've got a better idea for RO. Want your Adult R&B? Pull a
> Jacor, buy KDAY like they bought Groove and eliminate KDAY
> and flip it to Urban AC. A Urban AC in collaboration with
> KKBT would make a dynamic Duo that no one else has. Not
> Emmis and not Clear Channel.

Those chances of seeing that happen is slim to none.
 
Re: A lot of problems exist with this scenario

Going Urban AC is so much the right move for The Beat that I would be surprised (but unfortunately not shocked) if it didn’t go that direction. The Beat cannot compete with KPWR, KXOL, KIIS, and KDAY for young demos, Hispanics, and hip-hop fans, and frankly it should stop trying. However a UAC could easily succeed even with KJLH and KHHT in the market. KJLH’s signal is not consistently clear for 40-50% of the Black adults in the market, and therefore they don’t spend as much time listening to the station. KHHT – with its overly “safe” and repetitive playlist – gets Black listeners by default from lack of options, but if The Beat were to go UAC it would siphon off those Black listeners from Hot like it did from Power 106 back in 1989.

KJLH would have a number of viable options in response. It could easily go in a more R&B/smooth jazz hybrid direction similar to KBLX/SF holding onto most of its audience and grabbing away some from The Wave to make up for any it would have lost to another UAC. It could go more in an R&B oldies direction and solidify their grasp on the demos in the upper age range. That wouldn’t require a format change, simply a tweak. I’m sure it has absorbed most of KACE’s old audience, so this could be a good fit. KJLH does NOT need to be playing Chris Brown, Marques Houston, and all these hip-hop tracks that it has been playing for the past several months. Lastly, it could go gospel, which is the least attractive option IMO. However, so much of its programming and on-air presentation is gospel-oriented that it would be that much of a change.

KHHT could easily be more of a Rhythmic AC and less of an Urban AC that CC wants to avoid it becoming anyway. It could play more crossover music like that which was played on Power 106 twenty years ago. It could also simply drop most of the (few) R&B currents it plays while playing more artists like Frankie J. Despite the liners they are not playing much of today’s R&B. Focus on R&B oldies, old school R&B crossover and dance pop, and English-language Hispanic artists.

KPWR and KDAY wouldn't have to change anything and obviously would stand to gain a few more listeners.

Radio One’s forte is delivering entertainment to an African-American audience and in turn delivering the African-American consumer – particularly adults – to advertisers. I thought Radio One bought KKBT for that purpose, but instead RO has allowed this audience to be splintered off to KJLH, KHHT, KTWV, satellite radio, and media players.

I also don’t get why people believe KKBT should be essentially a churban simply because it’s in L.A. Urban ACs in heavily Hispanic markets like Miami, Houston, San Francisco, New York, etc. all perform well on full signals even with competition from other full-signal Urbans and Urban ACs and they usually have a significant Hispanic listenership; not large, but significant. It’s presumptuous and short-sighted to assume that every UAC’s programming and presentation cannot appeal to any non-Blacks. An L.A. Urban AC might not reach #2 in the market like the UACs of NY, Houston, and Miami, but could easily outperform non-Urban adult stations in the market with shares consistently in the 3.0 to 4.0 range and top ten 12+, top five 25-54 ratings. A KMJQ/WRKS/WHQT-style UAC with an LA twist would be best for KKBT, hands down. Heaven help them if Mary Catherine decides it should go more hip-hop and/or add reggaeton, or even if she feels shuffling DJs is enough. But again, I wouldn’t be shocked.
 
Re: A lot of problems exist with this scenario

> Going Urban AC is so much the right move for The Beat that I
> would be surprised (but unfortunately not shocked) if it
> didn’t go that direction. The Beat cannot compete with KPWR,
> KXOL, KIIS, and KDAY for young demos, Hispanics, and hip-hop
> fans, and frankly it should stop trying. However a UAC could
> easily succeed even with KJLH and KHHT in the market. KJLH’s
> signal is not consistently clear for 40-50% of the Black
> adults in the market, and therefore they don’t spend as much
> time listening to the station. KHHT – with its overly “safe”
> and repetitive playlist – gets Black listeners by default
> from lack of options, but if The Beat were to go UAC it
> would siphon off those Black listeners from Hot like it did
> from Power 106 back in 1989.
>
> KJLH would have a number of viable options in response. It
> could easily go in a more R&B/smooth jazz hybrid direction
> similar to KBLX/SF holding onto most of its audience and
> grabbing away some from The Wave to make up for any it would
> have lost to another UAC. It could go more in an R&B oldies
> direction and solidify their grasp on the demos in the upper
> age range. That wouldn’t require a format change, simply a
> tweak. I’m sure it has absorbed most of KACE’s old audience,
> so this could be a good fit. KJLH does NOT need to be
> playing Chris Brown, Marques Houston, and all these hip-hop
> tracks that it has been playing for the past several months.
> Lastly, it could go gospel, which is the least attractive
> option IMO. However, so much of its programming and on-air
> presentation is gospel-oriented that it would be that much
> of a change.
>
> KHHT could easily be more of a Rhythmic AC and less of an
> Urban AC that CC wants to avoid it becoming anyway. It could
> play more crossover music like that which was played on
> Power 106 twenty years ago. It could also simply drop most
> of the (few) R&B currents it plays while playing more
> artists like Frankie J. Despite the liners they are not
> playing much of today’s R&B. Focus on R&B oldies, old school
> R&B crossover and dance pop, and English-language Hispanic
> artists.
>
> KPWR and KDAY wouldn't have to change anything and obviously
> would stand to gain a few more listeners.
>
> Radio One’s forte is delivering entertainment to an
> African-American audience and in turn delivering the
> African-American consumer – particularly adults – to
> advertisers. I thought Radio One bought KKBT for that
> purpose, but instead RO has allowed this audience to be
> splintered off to KJLH, KHHT, KTWV, satellite radio, and
> media players.
>
> I also don’t get why people believe KKBT should be
> essentially a churban simply because it’s in L.A. Urban ACs
> in heavily Hispanic markets like Miami, Houston, San
> Francisco, New York, etc. all perform well on full signals
> even with competition from other full-signal Urbans and
> Urban ACs and they usually have a significant Hispanic
> listenership; not large, but significant. It’s presumptuous
> and short-sighted to assume that every UAC’s programming and
> presentation cannot appeal to any non-Blacks. An L.A. Urban
> AC might not reach #2 in the market like the UACs of NY,
> Houston, and Miami, but could easily outperform non-Urban
> adult stations in the market with shares consistently in the
> 3.0 to 4.0 range and top ten 12+, top five 25-54 ratings. A
> KMJQ/WRKS/WHQT-style UAC with an LA twist would be best for
> KKBT, hands down. Heaven help them if Mary Catherine decides
> it should go more hip-hop and/or add reggaeton, or even if
> she feels shuffling DJs is enough. But again, I wouldn’t be
> shocked.
>



Just wanted to say I really enjoyed your analysis. I hope you post more often. You convinced me, RO should (but probably won't) move KKBT in a more adult urban direction. They need to move away from the saturation.
 
Re: A lot of problems exist with this scenario

Thanks. I only post occasionally because when I write, I WRITE, if that isn’t obvious.

I’ll expound on the analysis. KKBT should have never gone up against Power 106 in the Smith/Santuosso period.

Back in the 80s/early 90s, KKBT – like the other Urbans across the country – dropped the ball by not playing much hip-hop. In many major markets churbans arose and succeeded by playing a good amount of hip-hop and thereby capturing a young, multi-ethnic crowd. In particular, churbans succeeded more so in larger, diverse markets in Blue States.

In the early to mid-90s, as crossover music waned and music became more polarized, pop and churban stations that hereto might have had quite similar playlists had to more firmly decide on an identity – either mainstream/top 40 or top/rhythmic. On the urban side, stations had to decide whether to go churban (a few did), Urban AC, or remain mainstream urban. In LA, KIIS stuck with its mainstream heritage and got less rhythmic; KPWR weighed both mainstream and rhythmic options and decided to go aggressively rhythmic; KJLH had decided to go Urban AC; KKBT stuck with mainstream urban.

As the 90s progressed, in the diverse major markets the churbans performed very well with their young, multi-ethnic audiences as hip-hop’s popularity grew despite its polarizing effect. Think Hot 97, KMEL, Power 106, WPGC, Power 96, The Box (Houston), etc. Meanwhile, as these churbans solidified their grasp on the young, multi-cultural end, many of the former “Urbans” in these markets segued to UAC, for example WRKS, KMJC, etc. One big exception is KSOL/KYLD, which went from Urban to Churban/Rhythmic in the early 90s, although KSOL/KISQ reemerged later as a UAC.

By the late 90s/early 00s, the realignment of urban and pop radio that spawned from the 80s crossover phenomenon and the rise of hip-hop was well established. We now mainly had decidedly, years-in-the-format Mainstream Pop, Rhythmic (most of which sound like young-oriented Urbans), Mainstream Urban, and Urban AC stations in the major markets. There was a brief nationwide fling with Jammin’ Oldies that failed with Urban ACs winning out in the long run.

In the diverse major markets, churbans and Urban ACs have become most successful. Houston and San Francisco have NO “official” Mainstream Urban station. New York has one Mainstream Urban that is out-performed by a Churban and an Urban AC. Miami, NY, and Houston have #1 or #2-rated UACs. New York and San Francisco have two well-performing, full-signal Urban ACs. Hot 97, KMEL, and The Box (along with KPWR) are considered the primary hip-hop stations in their respective markets. Adding to the equation, in the mid-00s New York, San Francisco, Houston, and Miami (& LA) now each have at least one Hispanic Urban.

L.A. is one of few major market that lacks a true, full signal Urban AC, despite the format’s success in similar markets. L.A. has one limited-signal UAC and one “Rhythmic AC” that doesn’t want to be or admit to being an Urban AC. Both are vulnerable and could be easily be out-performed by a full signal UAC.

All of this is my longwinded way if saying, if KKBT wanted to be a churban, it should have become so in the early 90s like KSOL. By the time the late 90s came around, the hip-hop leaders in the large markets had been established, and those were the stations that had already been churbans. KKBT could not have beat Power AND held onto its aging R&B fan base, though it seemed to try. In its over 8 years of trying I think KKBT has only beat Power in one book. Its ratings have not been that great for most of this period, with only the Harvey era providing the ratings spurt to help mask its problems. Other major market (former) Urbans recognized that adults were the way to go years ago. KKBT’s lack of movement in that direction is the main reason a KHHT was able to debut and survive this long in this market. KKBT’s mainstream urban format might do well in the South and Midwest or 10 years ago, but is harder to maintain in today’s major “Blue” cities. Look at WBLS: sounded great but could never really compete against Hot 97 and allowed Kiss to flourish; it recently switched back to UAC.

KIIS going more rhythmic and KXOL and KDAY coming onto the scene have provided triple-whammies and exposed KKBT’s vulnerability as a younger-oriented, churbanish Mainstream Urban. These stations have the leeway to be aggressive with hip-hop and/or other non-R&B music without worrying about turning off much of their core. In the hip-hop world, The Beat can’t even claim heritage any more than Power or KDAY can, and that’s even if young hip-hop fans gave a hoot about heritage or loyalty to begin with.

If anything KKBT could claim R&B heritage as the first full signal Urban station in LA, however that would resonate most with listeners who remember KKBT when it debuted and in its early years, and those people are now in their late 20s to late 40s (who were in the teen to thirtysomething age range back then). Hence, UAC would be a good direction.

KIIS has no reason to get less rhythmic. Power is still #1 18-34 so I doubt it is itching to change. KXOL will be around for at least another year. I wouldn’t count on KDAY disappearing in the near future. Meanwhile, Hot will still rotate the same oldies, and I very seriously doubt KJLH’s signal will increase in ’06 if ever, and 25-54 is where the money’s at. So to me it’s obvious what KKBT should do, where its most natural fit and potential success can be found. However, after hearing and reading the conventional thinking of L.A. radio people over the years, I wouldn’t be shocked if I hear even more crunk music, a splash of reggaeton, and the ever lovely voices of Eric Cubiche and K-Sly on KKBT throughout 2006. And Tom C. will still be PD. And the ratings won’t improve. And we’ll be talking about this again.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom