Is there a new trend around the corner in 'talk radio' or is this it?

[brian65]

Maybe its just me, but it seems like every day its Groundhog Day all over again.

Is it really as hopelessly stuck as it seems? Most people I know that listen to Talk gripe about it basically sucking anymore.

Seems to me that people simply have it on anymore because its the lesser of evils as broadcast music isn't all that enjoyable either after two songs.

 

[SeanMGilbow]

Perhaps what they need is more f-rt jokes. The Stephcast from stephaniemiller.com makes a great last-minute gift for....Christmahanukwanzakuh. ;D

May I also suggest those people get in touch with Rachel Maddow to get her friend Josie's cocktail recipes?

 

[cm454]

Here's an idea for a tend in talkradio:

How about sunjects that have little to do with a POLITICAL AGENDA!

Most people I know, of all economic stratas and religions and political leanings, often talk about many things all UNRELATED TO POLITICS.

How there is much of an audience left for talkradio after all this redundancy, is amazing---a-a-a-ah...don't get ahead of yourself here. This may not last forever as people become increasingly bored with regular radio--especially talkradio, with all it's predictability.

 

[jimwalsh2001]

Some hopeful signs:

The continued meltdown of certain mega-companies will mean more diversified ownership...

The return to prominence of programming-oriented people like Dan Mason and Randy Michaels...

More and more industry captains are coming forward and prescribing serious changes to our troubled industry (check Tom Taylor's excellent newsletter for updates). Even puffpiece publications like Talkers magazine are beginning to acknowledge that all is not right with the biz. Recognizing the problem is the first step.

With the continued downtrending of conservaclone squawk radio in many markets, eventually, even management will get the message.

It's still pretty grim out there, but there are indeed hopeful signs. Keep fightin' the good fight... ;D

 

[jaymarvin]

I'm sick of all of it. I've posted here before how boring talk radio is. It reminds me at times of F1. You start on the poll you win most of the time, unless your Lewis Hamilton and have bad luck, it's always the same. Maybe it's time for me to get out.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Talk could always go back to topical talk. NPR's "Talk of the Nation" does this. I could envision some commercial satellite talker doing the same thing with "more spice" than NPR, so it would appeal to the non-NPR listener.

There are some non-political talkers out there, NPR's "Car Talk", one of NPR's highest rated shows, because it's so not like NPR that folks of all political viewpoints can and do listen to those crazy guys each week. On the commercial networks is Kim Kommando's computer talk show. As I recall, it was rated the #8 national talk show in the nation. Those are two non-politcal talk shows that are now on the air and doing quite well. So it can be done.

It's far less work though to do show prep by going to the Drudge Report and read articles that are generally slanted in favor to the right and then "rant and rave" about how those left wingers are ruining the nation while ignoring the stupid things the other side is doing. Frankly both sides of the isle haven't been doing our nation much good, but that's a different issue.

Another form of talk show could also work on radio. Do a commercial version of NPR's "Fresh Air", where the host interviews national talents, even an occasional politician, where you hear clips from the movie, TV show, or song that the "famous" person is known for, etc. Sort of a radio verion of the Tonight Show. Yes, it would take far more work, planning, and yes money to do that sort of a show, so we tend to be stuck with political talk.

A possible reason political talk does as well as it does, may be the fact that generally it is considered not the type of subject to discuss at a party (religion and politics) yet those subjects really get people fired up as you've hit their core beliefs, which causes them to call in to voice their opinions, a natural for talk radio. Making the people in the opposing party be a villian where you can call them femin- nazi's, or discuss Hilliary's Testicle Lockbox, or say Bush is an idiot, etc. People seem to enjoy hearing that stuff and calling in to chime in.

 

[Phil Boyce]

Wow you guys are depressing me. I need to go watch "It's a Wonderful Life" about 6 more times to get these blues out of my head.

Just let me ask one question. What was the last high water mark for the talk radio format? It was the year 2004, not that long ago. Talk stations around the country had record year's and high water books. Both Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity had record numbers. My station, WABC in NYC had three solid books in a row, Spring, Summer and Fall 2004.

What was happening that year that drove all this? It was the Presidential Election. Bush Vs. Kerry. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. DanRathergate. Kerry's flip flops (voting before the 87 billion dollars before he voted against it). It was compelling, classic talkradio at it's best. You may think that this was boring, but at the time it was riveting, and the numbers prove it. Whether YOU liked it or not is immaterial.

What's on the horizon as we approach a New Year? 2008 is again a presidential election, only this year there are no clear front runners yet. It is an all out brawl. Talkradio is all over it, like no other medium can cover it. The last few times the ABC News /Washington Post poll has asked if listeners are following this coming election closely, 70% say yes. It has never been that high before...a year before the election even occurs.

You can complain that it is boring...and maybe to many it is. But to the 5% or so that make up the talkradio hard core audience in most markets, this is the super bowl. There may be another splinter of talkradio out there about to form where lifestyle and entertainment are more important. But for now, talkradio is entering a banner year. Just watch.

pb

 

[SeanMGilbow]

Wow you guys are depressing me. I need to go watch "It's a Wonderful Life" about 6 more times to get these blues out of my head.

Just let me ask one question. What was the last high water mark for the talk radio format? It was the year 2004, not that long ago. Talk stations around the country had record year's and high water books. Both Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity had record numbers. My station, WABC in NYC had three solid books in a row, Spring, Summer and Fall 2004.

What was happening that year that drove all this? It was the Presidential Election. Bush Vs. Kerry. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. DanRathergate. Kerry's flip flops (voting before the 87 billion dollars before he voted against it). It was compelling, classic talkradio at it's best. You may think that this was boring, but at the time it was riveting, and the numbers prove it. Whether YOU liked it or not is immaterial.

What's on the horizon as we approach a New Year? 2008 is again a presidential election, only this year there are no clear front runners yet. It is an all out brawl. Talkradio is all over it, like no other medium can cover it. The last few times the ABC News /Washington Post poll has asked if listeners are following this coming election closely, 70% say yes. It has never been that high before...a year before the election even occurs.

You can complain that it is boring...and maybe to many it is. But to the 5% or so that make up the talkradio hard core audience in most markets, this is the super bowl. There may be another splinter of talkradio out there about to form where lifestyle and entertainment are more important. But for now, talkradio is entering a banner year. Just watch.

pb

This coming from the person who predicted it would be the year of Hillary vs. Rudy?

Happy Christmahanukwanzakuh, sweetie. ;D

 

[jimwalsh2001]

Tell ya what, "Phil"...

I'll address your questions when you start to address some of mine...

 

[jaymarvin]

Phil, all you do here is brag about WABC and Hannity. It gets old. I wish you the nest of holidays and a great 08 coming up. But what WABC is doing is not the total answer and I wish I could get a dime for every time you toot your own horn.

 

[jaymarvin]

That should have read "best" instead on nest. Oh, I wanted to bring up one thing. This maybe should go in the sports talk area. To me the most compelling guy on the air is Jim Rome. I'm not even a sports fan except for F1, ALMS, and Rolex Grand AM. Rome does enough sports to keep the core happy, but also does a lot of humor and is clever enough to make you want to listen. Maybe talk radio could take a cue from him? Also another great station is New Jersey 105.3. They get how to do it and so does KFI. We just need more of those kinds of hosts and stations. I'm sorry but Imus sounds like a boring old man, and who wants to hang with someone who all they want to do is talk politics all the time.

 

[Phil Boyce]

Jay...how nice. Well at least you post using your real name which I respect. I am not sure how talking about the history of this format is tooting my own horn. I used WABC as an example, because I am more familiar with ratings of my station than others. But I also listed the entire format...which I am not responsible for as you know. I talked about Rush who I am not responsible for. And I talked about the ABC News/Washington Post poll, which I am not responsible for.

I realize this board is one big pity party. I just don't choose to take such a negative approach. I am not sure why reminding some of the history of the format, and what happened in 2004 is a bad thing to do....accept that it does not follow the agenda of some here who want to continue to discredit everything about this format.

This coming from the person who predicted it would be the year of Hillary vs. Rudy? Cheesy

I think you missed my point about that. Hillary Vs. Rudy (or anybody) will be great radio for those of us in this format. I still think Hillary gets it, and Rudy also, but the the fact that the field has narrowed and it is a closer race on both sides is actually an even BETTER thing for talkradio than if it is decided too early.

I am not saying this is the only kind of talkradio that works. I am saying that it does work...and it always amazes me to see people bitch and moan about a format that continues to be the most listened to format on the radio, scoring around 14-15% of all the radio listening out there. It's actually a pretty good format, and that's not tooting my own horn, that's just stating a fact.

pb

 

[MikefromDelaware]

The thing, I believe you are missing Phil, is that while conservative political talk appeals to one segment of the audience, other forms of talk/entertainment would appeal to another segment of the audience pulling in another group to radio, who generally are underserved if not ignored completely by radio. I don't understand why ABC radio which markets various forms of music programming from country to oldies to rock to urban doesn't do the same thing with their talk format. You offer conservative talk. So why not offer another package of liberal talk, another package of entertainment interview talk, and another package of topical talk? Then in that situation you spoke of in Wilmington where WDEL didn't want Hannity enough to air Levin (by the way for my ear, his show isn't as nearly as good as either Hannity or Rush) could have stayed an ABC affiliate by airing your newly created topical talk net, or the combination of topical talk with the entertainment or lib talk. Now you'd have both major talkers in Wilmington (WDEL and WILM) airing your programming rather than losing one. I'd imagine that this would work in similar ways in other markets too. That's the point I'm trying to make and would like to hear you address this.

By the way, in the interest of full disclosure, I've worked part time in radio for the past 31 years as a disk jockey, reporter, news anchor and talk show host. My last radio gig was doing a local talk show on Saturday nights on WILM ( I retired from radio December 2007, my full time career is a lab technician, which I'm in my 34th year, not quite ready for full retirement yet.) I've tried to changed my profile on this chat room to my real name, but couldn't get it to accept it. My real name obviously isn't Mike from Delaware, but Mike Cannatelli.

 

[kaufcom]

Phil said

Just let me ask one question. What was the last high water mark for the talk radio format? It was the year 2004, not that long ago. Talk stations around the country had record year's and high water books. Both Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity had record numbers. My station, WABC in NYC had three solid books in a row, Spring, Summer and Fall 2004.

Yes, and baseball ratings were higher during the world series and Christmas music was real popular during December. What you didn't point out is that Talk Radio ratings were down by 5% the next year.

What was happening that year that drove all this? It was the Presidential Election. Bush Vs. Kerry. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. DanRathergate. Kerry's flip flops (voting before the 87 billion dollars before he voted against it). It was compelling, classic talkradio at it's best. You may think that this was boring, but at the time it was riveting, and the numbers prove it. Whether YOU liked it or not is immaterial.

This confirms the conventional wisdom that talk radio is just a mouthpiece for the Republican party.

You can complain that it is boring...and maybe to many it is. But to the 5% or so that make up the talkradio hard core audience in most markets, this is the super bowl.

The difference is that the superbowl gets 35% of the TV audience (from all demo groups) while talk get most of its 5% from angry white men over 50.

it always amazes me to see people bitch and moan about a format that continues to be the most listened to format on the radio, scoring around 14-15% of all the radio listening out there.

Yes, but what you don't point out is that the format has been stuck at 14-15% for the past ten years and that overall radio listening is down about 8% -- also other formats like religion, Spanish, sports, and urban have grown significantly

 

[jimwalsh2001]

Hey: maybe it just the pre-holiday rush (or more likely, the fact that I just re-upped my fluoxetine prescription - Merry Christmas to me!) BUT...

...I've got a real good feeling for 2008...

Season's Greetings to all...even Phil, heh heh heh... ;D

-JW

 

[jimwalsh2001]

...I've got a real good feeling for 2008...


-JW

Geez...what the hell was I thinking... ;D

 

[jaymarvin]

Phil, first I don't think this board is one big pitty party as you call it. I think there are people here who have views on the format, and care about radio, and their sharing what they think. None of us are right all the time. Even those of us inside the format and radio. I didn't miss your point. I agree the upcoming political cycle will mean two things for talk radio. Money spent for ads, and more people checking the format out. I'm sure that KOA, KHOW, and AM760 will get a taste of all of it. We will have a very expensive senate race here not to mention the DNC will be here. My point is things are fine for you. When you post here it's always about Hannity or Levien. What about those on the local front? What about the loss of jobs due to Telcom96? What about more than just right-wing cheer leaders on the air? What happend to the days of mixed views and great radio? Why should I listen to WABC when all the hosts say the same thing? The same on my station. And you know what the numbers are in other markets. Come on you look just like the rest of us do. I don't know of but a few people who want to talk politics 24/7. Most people don't. Look at the polls. Most people are angry about both parties and are sick of all the crap. At some point someone is going to have to expand the format to talk about other things and get back to the days when a talk station was fun to listen too. Now with Randy Michaels coming on the scene with WGN keep your eyes open. Despite the BS writen about him I worked for him twice, and he was the best of the best. Let's see what he does with WGN. Of course I post under my real name? Why shouldn't I?

 

[Phil Boyce]

Jay, my comment about posting as your real name was an inside joke. I just was happy there is at least one other guy out here posting using a real name...so I am not the only one. I said this board is one big pity party because I constantly see threads here attacking the format, the hosts, the stations, the companies, the PD's and everybody having anything to do with it. (see Baroosk below). There are a ton of regulars here who hate this format, and what it stands for and constantly bitch about it.

I admit, I am unashamedly in the corner of Rush, Sean, and Mark because they succeed on my station(s). If they didn't, I would have to find a new line of employment. LOL

I have had success pairing a liberal with a conservative. Curtis and Kuby did really well for me in the morning for 8 years, and you did well with Eileen on WLS. That idea can work....and it allows a listener to be exposed to both sides of the argument. But there is a mechanical side to this format that is not unlike the inner workings of a car. A car is not worth much if it does not fire on all cylinders. I am not tooting my own horn, just stating a fact. WABC's TSL is the highest in the nation. That means it fires on all cylinders, so while you think it is a boring drumbeat, the WABC cores listeners can't get enough. (full disclosure, I am the PD of WABC and biased).

Mike from Delaware says:

I don't understand why ABC radio which markets various forms of music programming from country to oldies to rock to urban doesn't do the same thing with their talk format.

I have never believed conservative talk was the only form that would work. I have stated before that the talk format really is not one thing, but a variety of different things that all share one thing in common...it talks. Sportstalk is a great example and it targets younger males who are really interested in sports. There will be another format like that targeting younger females at some point...I just don't know who will do it. A number have tried this year and failed. My company did attempt to do that with the Satellite Sisters, but the show never took off the way we hoped.

Baroosk is one of the many here I refer to above. He HATES this format and everything we do. When I point out what happened in talkradio in 2004, he says this:

Yes, and baseball ratings were higher during the world series and Christmas music was real popular during December. What you didn't point out is that Talk Radio ratings were down by 5% the next year.

Hello McFly. Did my point completely sail over your head? Of course ratings were down the next year. If ratings were UP because of the interest in the presidential election...they would have to go down the next year...when there was no election...right? My point is, the stars are lining up for a great 2008. And yes....2009 will drop back down. It does not take a rocket scientist to get that. I don;t mean to be rude Baroosk, but you really invite this kind of response.

Sometimes Baroosk misses the obvious so badly that I feel silly responding to him. But again let me try:

The difference is that the superbowl gets 35% of the TV audience (from all demo groups) while talk get most of its 5% from angry white men over 50.

OK Baroosk, thanks for proving my point to Jay better than I could have. You respresent the true haters of talkradio. You just loathe it, but you love to come here on this board and condemn it. As I have said so many times, if I get a 5 share in NYC I am a hero. That means 95% do not listen to me. The Super Bowl is a one day event that gets 35%. Talkradio is a daily event, that gets a 5 share. You are making my point so dramatically, I can't believe I am saying this to you. I don't have to get super bowl like numbers to be a hero. I just need a lousy 5 share. We can make money with that 5 share, and that is all that counts. They may get about 25 commercials into a Super Bowl game. I can get 18 minutes of commercials onto ONE HOUR! Surely you see the difference.

I said: it always amazes me to see people bitch and moan about a format that continues to be the most listened to format on the radio, scoring around 14-15% of all the radio listening out there.

To which Baroosk replied:

Yes, but what you don't point out is that the format has been stuck at 14-15% for the past ten years and that overall radio listening is down about 8% -- also other formats like religion, Spanish, sports, and urban have grown significantly

Baroosk we already fought this battle, remember? When you have the #1 format in radio....you can't grow any higher. There is no rank higher than NUMERO UNO. When Spanish or any other format passes News/Talk Radio, then you can make that claim. But if Spanish grows from 2% to 4%....so what? They still have only one third of the listening on News/Talk radio...and they will never ever pass us. EVER. If Spanish ever passes us, it means that Vincente Fox was elected President of the US and tore down the border. It is never gonna happen.

A format can't continue to garner more and more market share. It matures...and reaches a peak. The fact that we have maintained market share for the last 10 years is stunning! The radio listening that has declined has been to music radio, due to competition from computers, ipods, and satellite. Talkradio is immune from that kind of competition. People may be listening to radio a little bit less...but the share of this format is still #1, which is remarkable.

I remain a cheerleader for this format. Many here will hate me for that. I am not sure why. If you have a message board about the News/Talk format, why come here if you hate it so much? I just don't get that. Go to the message board of the format you DO like.

pb

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Phil, thanks for your answer.

I hope that ABC radio would not give up and get creative and try to offer more variety in talk. As I said earlier, many markets have more than one talker (it's the one format that still works well on AM other than religion and ethnic radio) so it would seem that ABC, CBS, Westwood One, etc would be coming up with ways to expand the talk radio market beyond, political and sports talk. There's a bunch of AM stations struggling to stay afloat that probably would jump at a chance to air such new styled talk programming (essentially re-inventing older forms of talk/entertainment that radio did do quite well years ago) aimed at both females and males combined or as single demo targets as the larger heritage stations already have the Rush/Hannity thing tied up.

As a radio consumer now, I tired of the daily onslaught of anger and malace that makes up much of the political talk today of Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, Levin, Ingraham, and Beck to a lesser extent. Some days I tune out completely and listen to the NPR news/info/talk, or listen to an audio book, or some music on FM or CD's. There's only so much of bashing Hillary and that the world's going to come to an abrupt end if she's the next President, etc, one can listen to each day and the election's still 11 months away. Seems like a golden opportunity for some radio network to create a whole new chapter for talk radio.

 

[jaymarvin]

Phil, I didn't get the inside joke about the name thing. Sorry about that. I also understand you defending your station and your place in the market. But as Mike points out it does get tiring. Plus if all your going to do is cater to the core than you can only get a limited share. Why settle for a 5 when you could have more? It all reminds me of the struggle to broaden out country radio in the middle 70's and 80's. Bob Pitman caught all kinds of hell for what he did at WMAQ. But he reached beyond the core to make the format more mass appeal. Why not do it with talk? We use to do it that way. I pulled box car numbers 25-54 and 18-34 at night on WLS. Then the whole station had to swing to the right, and the then PD made my life living hell. Now look where WLS is. Is it because I left? No. It's because there is too much syndication and not enough diverse viewpoints and down right fun and entertainment. I don't hate talk radio. I don't like what it has become. Anyone can get on a big stick station and yell "stop Hillary Clinton" every five seconds or George Bush is a Nazi every day. It take real talent to take a story and make something out of it without having to lean on those crutches. By the way Phil did you get the e-mail I sent you?