Is There A Place For Sinatra On Today's Sacramento Radio?

[BTSF]

Being an oldtimer, I remember hearing the recordings of Sinatra, Crosby, and sounds of jazz, swing, big bands....all on the only radio we had: "terrestrial".

With 90% of stations targeting younger audiences, would there be a place for such music on today's radio? I know it's available in fair-to-poor sound on computers and on XM/Sirius, but what about terrestrial?

Are older music radio listeners so irrelevant that no station should try this? And what about the 18-45s who actually enjoy some of this?....I know they are out there, if not in large numbers, but they do exist....

 

[RadioStarOne]

Sinatra's voice was the icing on the cake for the worlds most wonderfully produced music of all time. All you have to do is listen to enjoy the taste of that freshly baked cake because the music is timeless as is his "Voice." Too bad history's record bin is now so overflowing that there is no room on the radio for this and many other types of music! It's really quite a shame for this music to die for if no one listens then what good is any music at all?

 

[DeadAudicy]

Old timers, while I realize nothing matches the thrill of hearing the standards over the air, knowing many others are enjoying the sound as you are...still there is a great way to receive Sinatra, Crosby, Martin, Dorseys, Louie & Keely, and the rest, literally over the air and sounding like when you first heard it broadcast. It'll take about $200 to $300 investment, and a couple hours of bonehead level soldering.

Go to craigslist and search for radio. There are always a few for sale like this one: http://sacramento.craigslist.org/ele/482121661.html and buy yourself a great, warm, beautiful old AM receiver. Most of these still sound spectacular, even with the original speaker, and provide a feeling totally missed in any of todays sound delivery...yes even in mono.

Then go to tubesandmore.com and click on "Kits". You'll see an easy and cheap AM transmitter kit that'll take even the most circuit-shy a few hours to put together. Source your transmitter to your TV cable (the standards station is phenominal), or your i-pod full of the music-of-your-life, and oila: nonstop bebop broadcast onto the radio that was made for the music.

So, it's not as easy as puching the KGMS button in the '55 Olds, but considerably more possible.

 

[BTSF]

DeadAudicy,

Thanks for the tech tips...but what I was referring to was having a commercial {or even non-commercial} format with a host...you know, like 20-40 years ago when the DJ actually could
tell you something about what was played.

It's been my opinion for years that much of America's finest music...yes, music with quality...
has been tossed away in "Radioland" simply because radio consultants are paid to tell stations/corporations that only three or four types of music are commercially viable...therefore,
the rest must be relegated to access/public channels.

My dream format would mix the Sinatra music with the great jazz vocalists, spiced with big bands,
jazz, swing.....not "The Music Of Your Life" that KCTC dumped for - hee hee - Air America, in between its frequent bankruptcies....no tons of Carpenters & Neil Diamond, lots of Nat Cole, Diana Krall, and some Duke Ellington. These names, and their work product, deserve to be heard...and I think, if properly programmed, could be commercially viable.

And rather than create a station for one, I'd rather "broad"cast..but with a decent stream.

 

[SFSAC]

Of course there's a place. The problem is that there isn't an audience that will support it. You can only sell so many retirement homes, reverse mortgages, and funeral plots that the advertising demand is not there. Unfortunate too. It's a great format that the general public would love to have, but no advertiser in this market is SMART enough to put their money behind for the long term. It's sad, but the audience for this format is perceived to have everything they need and aren't accustomed to purchase off of radio advertising. Again all about the almighty dollar rather than the listener. BUT, if you're a media agency that can put a group of advertisers together and hang in there with the format for more than a year, call Salem and buy the 105.5 frequency that's being wasted on FM.

 

[Madmansam]

DeadAudicy,

Thanks for the tech tips...but what I was referring to was having a commercial {or even non-commercial} format with a host...you know, like 20-40 years ago when the DJ actually could
tell you something about what was played.

It's been my opinion for years that much of America's finest music...yes, music with quality...
has been tossed away in "Radioland" simply because radio consultants are paid to tell stations/corporations that only three or four types of music are commercially viable...therefore,
the rest must be relegated to access/public channels.

My dream format would mix the Sinatra music with the great jazz vocalists, spiced with big bands,
jazz, swing.....not "The Music Of Your Life" that KCTC dumped for - hee hee - Air America, in between its frequent bankruptcies....no tons of Carpenters & Neil Diamond, lots of Nat Cole, Diana Krall, and some Duke Ellington. These names, and their work product, deserve to be heard...and I think, if properly programmed, could be commercially viable.

And rather than create a station for one, I'd rather "broad"cast..but with a decent stream.

If you move 79 miles south of Sacramento to Modesto, you'll have the pleasure of not one but TWO ADULT STANDARDS Radio Stations, KMPH-840 and KVIN-920. The former is locally programmed (playing what they call MUSIC WITH CLASS) while the latter is the JSN MUSIC OF YOUR LIFE format that was carried on KCTC-1320, however KVIN (also known as VINTAGE 920) preempts the JSN MOYL service and carries the syndicated THE SWING THING with FRED HALL on Saturday Nights. Funny that MODESTO can support 2 ADULT STANDARDS RADIO STATIONS yet bigger cities like SACRAMENTO, SAN FRANCISCO, LOS ANGELES and SAN DIEGO don't have any FULLTIME ADULT STANDARDS STATIONS. How can advertisers in MODESTO will support these stations and not in larger cities?

 

[Madmansam]

Actually San Diego does have a ADULT STANDARDS station, KSPA-1450.

 

[DeadAudicy]

A station in SF or Sac is considerably more expensive to operate than its counterpart in Modesto. Property, talent, maintenance, engineering, and frequency itself are more expensive. Further, an independent would be competing with lower rates only a corporate group could justify, for various reasons.

The non commercial route would be easier if one wanted to broadcast the standards 24/7 or close, but one would need pretty hefty underwriting. Put your format, operational, and team ideas on paper, look for like-minded patrons, and start the funding roadshow!

Much of the KSPA broadcast day (which supports KFSD, the San Diego signal) is infomercials and sports.

 

[BTSF]

SFSAC, I believe people over the age of 50 purchase & drive cars, eat at local restaurants, make purchases at hundreds of grocers, bakers, drug stores...in short, you don't stop living, earning, investing or consuming upon graduating out of Arbitron's 19-44 stat category.

MadmanSam....I'm really not into uprooting myself & family....my posted topic was "Is There A Place For Sinatra On Today's Sacramento Radio?" for a reason....

It just seems to me that much of Sacramento radio is consultant-driven, voice-tracked, cookie-cutter sounds with little human interaction, little reason to actually listen....and I tend to believe the lack of honest, real localism is hurting radio in the marketplace.

DeadAudicy makes a strong point....small-market costs are considerably lower than medium & major markets...but I still wish to believe a local, class-act station would pull some numbers...and more than a handful of younger people might just listen, too. But the longer The Great American Songbook lingers off-air, the harder the task becomes....and that becomes our culture's loss, too.

 

[Madmansam]

SFSAC, I believe people over the age of 50 purchase & drive cars, eat at local restaurants, make purchases at hundreds of grocers, bakers, drug stores...in short, you don't stop living, earning, investing or consuming upon graduating out of Arbitron's 19-44 stat category.

MadmanSam....I'm really not into uprooting myself & family....my posted topic was "Is There A Place For Sinatra On Today's Sacramento Radio?" for a reason....

It just seems to me that much of Sacramento radio is consultant-driven, voice-tracked, cookie-cutter sounds with little human interaction, little reason to actually listen....and I tend to believe the lack of honest, real localism is hurting radio in the marketplace.

DeadAudicy makes a strong point....small-market costs are considerably lower than medium & major markets...but I still wish to believe a local, class-act station would pull some numbers...and more than a handful of younger people might just listen, too. But the longer The Great American Songbook lingers off-air, the harder the task becomes....and that becomes our culture's loss, too.

I didn't really mean for you to actually move, I forgot to add the at the end. And I agree wholeheartedly with DeadAudicy because i worked at one time in the Modesto market. while I am not surprised that they have a Adult Standards station. I am surprised there are TWO ADULT STANDARDS STATIONS for a market the size of Modesto. BTW BTSF, Can you pick up either station I mentioned in Sacramento? (KMPH-840 or KVIN-820) When KVIN was Spanish KLOC, i recall picking them up in Elk Grove AT NIGHT. Do you have a good radio like a GE SUPERRADIO? A friend of mine once told me (At Citadel Modesto) back in 1996, when KBEE-970 switched from ADULT STANDARDS (WW1 AM ONLY)to CLASSIC COUNTRY that the station would make more money as another country music station rather than be the only Adult standards station. Funny thing, they switched to ALL SPORTS a year later. KBEE-970 did great in the ratings back in 1996 than its now successor KESP, but KESP makes more money than they did as ADULT STANDARDS. RATINGS aren't everything. If they were, KESP-970 wouldn't have stayed with ALL SPORTS for more than 10 years.

 

[1069_KIFR]

No.

 

[BTSF]

MadManSam.....

Can't get Modesto stations on my radios in the Sacramento area...fringe signals rarely do justice to music anyways.....my point is, since KCTC made an idiotic flip to loser Air America, then smartly flipped to all sports, there isn't any local product that features The Great American Songbook.

To those who argue that most of those who lived through the 1930's & 1940's are no longer with us, I ask why several markets have very, very successful classical music stations...I ain't seen Mozart running around here lately.

I was just asking if you radio professionals think a completely different format would be worth taking a shot at in Sacramento, 2007-2008.....my viewpoint is most of today's content is virtually unlistenable, particularly to those over 50...a very fast growing segment of the population, and a "throwback" station, with live, local hosts who say more than "Sinatra on K-Whatever", just might be viable.

People over 50 are not automatically dead, no matter what over-payed, under-performing "consultants" tell
station managers.

 

[DeadAudicy]

BTSF, a couple of simple, albeit annoying, answers.

1st, no matter your appreciation for the music of the 30s, 40s, and 50s (and believe me I deeply share that appreciation), with any objectivity it will not compare to the classics, neither in a creative, technical, historical, nor sociological sense.

2nd, those who were around in the 30s and 40s, of an age at the time able to hear and know the music (12, say, on the youngest side of the curve), one would be 80 to 90, and older. Not 50. A 50 and even 60 year old looks back to the music of their time with fondness, and it is the rock and pop of the 60s, 70s, and 80s. While there are many younger folks who do enjoy the older music, they constitute a small minority. And the dirty fact remains: the further above 54 the age, the less interested advertisers are. Of course we still buy products, but dollars spent are sharply reduced compared to the under 50 set.

Still, if one had the savvy and wherewithal to obtain the signal (operating independently of the groups), the format is supportable on a shoe string, and with very active and talented sales and promotion teams it could survive. Problem is few are up to the task. People with that kind of energy and acumen lean toward more perpetually remunerative enterprises.

Thus the dearth that bothers us both.

 

[Madmansam]

How About KJAY-1430 as ADULT STANDARDS?

MadManSam.....

Can't get Modesto stations on my radios in the Sacramento area...fringe signals rarely do justice to music anyways.....my point is, since KCTC made an idiotic flip to loser Air America, then smartly flipped to all sports, there isn't any local product that features The Great American Songbook.

To those who argue that most of those who lived through the 1930's & 1940's are no longer with us, I ask why several markets have very, very successful classical music stations...I ain't seen Mozart running around here lately.

I was just asking if you radio professionals think a completely different format would be worth taking a shot at in Sacramento, 2007-2008.....my viewpoint is most of today's content is virtually unlistenable, particularly to those over 50...a very fast growing segment of the population, and a "throwback" station, with live, local hosts who say more than "Sinatra on K-Whatever", just might be viable.

People over 50 are not automatically dead, no matter what over-payed, under-performing "consultants" tell
station managers.

I agree with you BTSF, Maybe KJAY-1430 can switch to ADULT STANDARDS if they're still around?

 

[BTSF]

DeadAudicy,

Agreed, the person who grew up listening to big bands, who remembers when jazz was a "popular" music, and who listened to Sinatra in his/her teens is far older than 50...but I'm 50, and I've listened to this music since my youth, which was in the mid-60's {and many claim my maturity ended there}.

Not trying to compare Sinatra/jazz/big bands to classics in any other way than to point out the majority of composers, artists and creators of the most famous recordings in both classifications are long gone, but the music remains....and many interpretations are being created today by young people who were exposed to these music, even some who heard it on the radio {Gasp!}.

I think exactly what is needed to re-invent radio is that effort that you say is rare {having worked in the field over 25 years, you're dead on there}...now all I gotta do is find me a Sinatra loving millionaire who likes to gamble off reservations and west of Nevada....

Thanks for the brief answer from 1069_KIFR, and MadManSam, thanks for the support, Brother...

 

[rickradio]

BTSF, et al...

Too bad you don't live in my neighborhood...you'd probably be my biggest listener.

Turns out there IS a Sacramento radio station (albeit Part 15 in northern Carmichael) that programs just the music you're describing: AM 1670 KAPM. I'm working on trying to stream it as we speak. There definitely is an audience for it (I, for one), and therefore, I put KAPM on the air.

Email me your address and I'll either bring or mail you an hour of KAPM programming on CD and see what you think...I think you'll really like it. Lots of Sinatra, Krall, local artist Beth Duncan, Goodman, Jo Stafford, Peggy Lee, Perry Como, Louie & Keely, Alpert & TJB, Sergio & Brasil '66, etc. and there's some syndicated programming that I'm in the process of acquiring for AM 1670 as well.

Again, email me at [email protected], and we'll see about trying to fix you up.

 

[jh]

I work at the station in northwest Iowa that was doing essentially what was suggested ... big band music, Sinatra, maybe Anne Murray, no Neil Diamond. We did it until mid-October 2005, when it was dropped and replaced with ESPN sports talk. We didn't go to the nostalgia format at some point, it essentially continued from when the station first went on the air in 1948... although when the FM went AC in the late 80s, the more current music was pulled from the AM.

Did it have listeners? Yes, but most were probably 75+ and although we're in a non-rated market, ABC has access to county numbers. When those numbers dropped below a certain threshold, ABC was going to start charging us to run their newscasts. That's kind of when we decided to look at doing something else.

Did it make any money? No. The local newsblocks were simulecast from the FM AC station, but outside of that most days you could count on your fingers the number of paid spots that ran on the AM. (The ESPN format doesn't do any better and probably has fewer listeners, however.)

Maybe it would have worked if we had dropped the big band stuff from the regular programming, and instead ran specialty shows for big band, jazz, etc. on the weekend. People who listened to big band music during WWII love it, but almost no one else will listen to it on a regular daily basis. Several years ago, our statewide paper (Des Moines Register) had a poll (scientific) on music... among people in Iowa over 65, the favorite type of music was country, big band was second. And our FM country station seems to have quite a few listeners in that age group although it's a current-based country station. The former AM listeners now listen to the AC FM for the news, and shut it off when we play music.

 

[BTSF]

Rickradio,

Sounds very interesting...got any jobs???

Jh,

I know lots of stations with stories like yours....but, somehow, I have the feeling, if properly programmed and if it isn't drowned in commercials, it could turn a buck or two.

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

How About on FM!

I spent a painful hour listening to KTKZ-FM 105.5 the other day. One thing I noticed was that there were several bumpers and promos selling just the 1380 dial position. One was for the recently added Dennis Miller show.

I see two things possibly happening here...

1. Salem is about to put some under-performing stations up for sale. KTKZ has essentially divided its audience between 1380 and 105.5 FM. They could simply be preparing to spin the FM.

OR------------------------

2. Salem has a high rated (12+) satellite delivered (Dial Global) Adult Standards station in Honolulu. KHUI 99.5 is a Class C (100,000 watts) that and is one of 4 FM's in the market owned by Salem. The 'late' GM Steve Miller (who passed away just recently) http://starbulletin.com/2007/09/27/business/engle.html got the idea to put Standards on the frequency when his Hawaiian AC format was failing. Steve was a former GM in Fresno and knew of the "success" that Adult Standards KJWL-FM was enjoying. http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?p=171620

When done on FM, Adult Standards pulls some decent 12+ numbers. I don't know what they get 25-54 or 35-64 for that matter, but KHUI (The Jewel) is 2nd place 12+ in Honolulu.

I would love to see 105.5 flip to Standards. What have they got to lose? They can even use the station to cross promote their 'lovely' formats to another group of potential listeners.ht

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

and another thing

Yes...I am aware of the signal limitations of 105.5. But their signal must be better than what is shown on the FCC maps. I'd love to see a Longley-Rice propagation map of the station. It's interesting that the ratings on the Fish are lower on the 'superior' 103.9 frequency that could be due to the recent sign-on of the potent translator of k-"love".

I find it interesting that Salem paid 8.5 million dollars for 105.5 back in 2001.

Salem may actually look like heroes rather than religious profiteers if they flip 105.5 to Standards and serve an neglected population....OUR SENIORS!