Is this happening in Nashville, other radio markets, maybe it is ??

[Radio Dav]

Doesn't Nashville already have an "oldies" station at around 88.1 FM, operated by the University of Tennessee?

WVCP 88.5 FM, Vol State Community College station. Unfortunately for me, they are in Gallatin, and can only be received on the north and east sides of Nashville. For those of us on the south and west sides, it's WKOM or nothing.

Maybe WVCP 88.5 could get a translator on 104.9 near the SW side of downtown. You want the translator near downtown to get the office people. While 104.9 would help cover the south and west sides of Nashville.

 

[beatlenut]

If I said anything good about South Central (and believe me, it's painful), they stuck with AC on Mix 92.9 and made a name for themselves. Everybody in this town knows who they are. Oldies 96.3 had the same thing going for them, and with the switch to Jack FM (which is Adult Hits, not Classic Hits, as stated earlier), they're doing almost the same ratings-wise (at least staying in the Top 10), they just fluctuate a lot more, but stay relatively in the ballpark of where Oldies was. But I think Jack would be harder to sell than Oldies. With Oldies, a client has a better idea of who is listening. With Jack, it's AOR (All Over the Road).

I have always believed any format can work if it's done right. Oldies was working, but whoever was programming it was lacking the feel it needed to keep them competitive. As far as making money - how can you not make money with a station that has good numbers? Anything in the Top 8 should be making decent money. And if Mix is #1, and you're sister station is #6 (which is where Oldies was and now Jack is hovering), the change is either from greed or they realized they were paying Coyote too much money.

If Cumulus had stuck with the same format on 97.1 they had nine years ago, by now, they might have something...

 

[deltas69]

i can her the vol station until i get to hendersonville..and i live in gallatin..after that..its in and out..although i have heard it in several business's in nashville quite well..recently within the last two weeks or so..for some strange reason they have started throwing country in the middle of their morn show...nothing like smoke on the water followed by johnny cash and ghost riders in the sky followed by wreck of the edmund fitzgerald..their playlist is quite large..better than any "oldies" station in town ever played..but no one seems to be helping the "air talent" with how to do a show, what to say how to say it etc..i thought thats what the course was for..to learn..but..then again..where would said "talent" go once graduated?..who's gonna hire those people for jobs as a jock ?

 

[TheBigA]

As far as making money - how can you not make money with a station that has good numbers?

Any programmer will tell you there's more to great radio than playing hits. Same with sales. There's more to sales than getting good numbers. They have to be the RIGHT numbers. That's what this thread is all about. Oldies attracts an audience that most advertisers don't want.

This should be easy to understand. There was a reason why those songs got airplay 40 years ago: They attracted younger audiences. That's what advertisers wanted. Now the audience for those songs have aged, and advertisers aren't as anxious to get them. The songs and the audience are the same, but they've just gotten older. It's also a problem for WSM and any station that mainly gets listeners over 55. And it was a problem 40 years ago, and why stations stopped playing Glenn Miller and Tommy Dorsey, and replaced them with music by what were then current artists.

 

[Tibbs4]

Beatlenut --- I gotta say I usually am with you on things, but Jacks been pretty strong overall since the beginning (in the 25-54 #'s)
Oldies was not top 2 or 3. Don't use the 12+ numbers to judge the rankings.

I'd say, the Mix and Jack combo is an easier sell than oldies was, although I get your logic of trying to pair lighter AC and oldies in the demo.
(Big A's post above is spot on in clearing that up)

The decision to flip to Jack, was all around, a pretty dang smart and a well-executed shot that ignited the market more than any radio flip
in the past five years.

Agreed, Oldies, done to near perfection, can have some pockets of success, but it's a format, like jazz, that just has limited staying power.
Change is probably good --- look at the bright side: Without any flips 92.9 would be elevator music still --- WZEZ --- ZZZZZZ --- Then
you'd really hate the station.

And, yeah all this is fun on here (except I miss Romer on here and hell if Scott ain't moved to that thar NYC) but seriously, Mix's music
is there for a reason and I have a feeling it's not designed for about 110% of us posting on this board to like it. Kinda like probably 110%
of Mix's listeners don't like The Buzz. Obviously, in a perfect MIX utopian radio world, all 18 FM stations would be playing All Rupert All
The Time. But, you can't have heaven on Earth, can you?

 

[TheBigA]

At the end of the day, if the music industry gets its way, and enacts their Performance Royalty, led by Senators Alexander and Corker, and Representative Blackburn, all music will disappear from the airwaves. So it really doesn't matter.

 

[cspotrun]

As far as making money - how can you not make money with a station that has good numbers?

Any programmer will tell you there's more to great radio than playing hits. Same with sales. There's more to sales than getting good numbers. They have to be the RIGHT numbers. That's what this thread is all about. Oldies attracts an audience that most advertisers don't want.

This should be easy to understand. There was a reason why those songs got airplay 40 years ago: They attracted younger audiences. That's what advertisers wanted. Now the audience for those songs have aged, and advertisers aren't as anxious to get them. The songs and the audience are the same, but they've just gotten older. It's also a problem for WSM and any station that mainly gets listeners over 55. And it was a problem 40 years ago, and why stations stopped playing Glenn Miller and Tommy Dorsey, and replaced them with music by what were then current artists.

if you can't answer this question you have NO argument...."explain to me the success of stations like cbs-fm-WLS-FM, KEARTH, KOOL in Phoenix and others in this format who are making money and getting ratings" if they were not, believe me they would run from this format like a scalded dog.

 

[Tibbs4]

Same logic applies --- to this: explain why there's no country station in NYC, when it's #1 in ...

 

[cspotrun]

Same logic applies --- to this: explain why there's no country station in NYC, when it's #1 in ...

well IF i use the SAME kind of "logic" that is being used against the "Classic Hits/Oldies" audience in these blogs... it would be because "ADVERTISERS don't want those green teeth, banjo playin', red neck hillbillies" in NY. ridiculous, isn't it.

 

[TheBigA]

if you can't answer this question you have NO argument...."explain to me the success of stations like cbs-fm-WLS-FM, KEARTH, KOOL in Phoenix and others in this format who are making money and getting ratings" if they were not, believe me they would run from this format like a scalded dog.

I've answered that several times in this thread.

The fact is that WCBS-FM, regardless of its success in the ratings, is one of the lowest billing stations in NYC. And as the other poster said, just because a format is a success in NY, Chicago, or LA is no predictor of success anywhere else.

Same logic applies --- to this: explain why there's no country station in NYC, when it's #1 in ...

well IF i use the SAME kind of "logic" that is being used against the "Classic Hits/Oldies" audience in these blogs... it would be because "ADVERTISERS don't want those green teeth, banjo playin', red neck hillbillies" in NY. ridiculous, isn't it.

That's pretty much what they're saying. And that's why there's no country in NYC. The only reason there's a country station in LA is it makes more money than classical music. Otherwise, it would be gone.

 

[Don78]

quote author=Tibbs2
Same logic applies --- to this: explain why there's no country station in NYC, when it's #1 in ...
[/quote]

that's simple Tibbs, cause theres yankees up there

 

[radiodood]

Oldies is not the word for the Greatest Hits format. The mere word "oldies" alone says Elvis, 57 Chevy's, Poodle Skirts, etc. The center of the format in its hey day was 1965-1969, the best years for rock & roll ever. There were many very successful "oldies" stations, but as the audience grew older, the format never evolved to pick up the younger audience that had a thirst for music from the 70's and early 80's. By the time 96.3 jettisoned the format, it had already reached the point where the format was pigeonholed nationally as a 45 plus format, not the darling buy for most national agencies with young media buyers. There was a bit of a resurgence with Classic Hits (an ambiguous name that means nothing to the listener) and in some markets, it still does ok from a ratings standpoint, but the billing is another story. It simply does not get the support of the advertising community like it once did. In this difficult economy, it is tough enough to get advertising on any radio station, let alone one that appeals to an unattractive demo.
The format could have lasted a few more years here, had it evolved and attracted a younger demo.The problem with the 70's and 80's, is there are limited titles that have the same type of appeal that the mid to late 60's titles have. There are few songs like, Unchained Melody, My Girl, I Saw Her Standing There, Baby Love, etc from the 70's or 80's and stations that feature that music use a limited playlist as again, very few of the songs from those years have stood the test of time. A successful radio station must play the hits, and even in the traditional "Oldies" format, few stations played more than 500 songs TOTAL. There are just not that many old songs that are mass appeal enough to continue making the cut in todays world. Oldies is dead and it is not coming back..at least not in the present radio climate.

 

[Radio Dav]

I wonder how WGRR does in billing in Cincy, there normally among the top 5 stations.
They play a good variety of oldies with 80's sprinkled in the mix.

WGRR sounds much better than Jack.

Oldies 105 in Evansville seems good, heard them play Prince in the mix.

I would rather hear oldies over Jack, there better off to put the Jack in a graveyard.

 

[cspotrun]

if you can't answer this question you have NO argument...."explain to me the success of stations like cbs-fm-WLS-FM, KEARTH, KOOL in Phoenix and others in this format who are making money and getting ratings" if they were not, believe me they would run from this format like a scalded dog.

I've answered that several times in this thread.

The fact is that WCBS-FM, regardless of its success in the ratings, is one of the lowest billing stations in NYC. And as the other poster said, just because a format is a success in NY, Chicago, or LA is no predictor of success anywhere else.

Same logic applies --- to this: explain why there's no country station in NYC, when it's #1 in ...

well IF i use the SAME kind of "logic" that is being used against the "Classic Hits/Oldies" audience in these blogs... it would be because "ADVERTISERS don't want those green teeth, banjo playin', red neck hillbillies" in NY. ridiculous, isn't it.

That's pretty much what they're saying. And that's why there's no country in NYC. The only reason there's a country station in LA is it makes more money than classical music. Otherwise, it would be gone.

but the fact IS the format IS successful in other areas of the country not just the top 5 markets , AND YOU KNOW IT! not only from ratings but also in terms of billing. these figures are never made public so i don't know how you can say who is billing what, but i do know this, the format is on the air all over the country for a reason. do you think it is because owners and groups LIKE to lose money? c'mon get real!
i would like to know why country can do well in Philly and up state new york and throughout the north east and somehow NYC is immune from ANYBODY liking country music? the concerts there do well. an underperforming station in NYC should try it, what would they have to lose?

 

[TheBigA]

do you think it is because owners and groups LIKE to lose money? c'mon get real!

No, and that's why they're starting to phase it out in lots of markets, and why it was dropped in Nashville.

i would like to know why country can do well in Philly and up state new york and throughout the north east and somehow NYC is immune from ANYBODY liking country music?

I'd like to know why the weather is so nice in the south and so bad in the north. I'd like to know why taxes vary from state to state. We're all Americans. We should all pay the same. Fix those problems, and maybe someone will tackle the country in NYC thing.

 

[Tibbs4]

Big A --- last response was hilarious. I will say you made a great case of explaining the revenue "shortage" for the format.
Same is true for urban formats, but they rank tops in many markets, including #44 as recently as today. Just because you
are #1 12+ (who cares) or even 25-54, etc. doesn't mean you bill better than the next guy. That makes a difference in formats. As
for WCBS-FM, it is the brought back heritage that gave it the spike from the miserable Jack fiasco. But, yes, the monthly
billing is low like you said. And, guys, lots of these stations numbers and billing $$ are public knowledge, so Big A was right.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[Radio Dav]

I showed Randy M, how to move 101.7 WKOM closer to Nashville, maybe Bud Walters, would be ready for THE HIT MUSIC PIG with 25kW watts, AKOR Broadcasting...

 

[Radio Dav]

Don't forget how Y 107 was years ago.

Radio last several years has become to conservative.

 

[NashRadio]

Response to delta: Most of the 88.5 student air staff will-if they want to continue in radio- get a job at a station in or near their hometown, because: (1) They or their family is already known there; (2) They can say they've had "radio experience".

 

[beatlenut]

Great posts, but answer me this: the Oldies format is for the older audience, granted. But aren't they the audience with the most disposable income? That's what programmers have been touting my entire radio life. Why wouldn't you want to appeal to them? The format can be shaken up a bit, so you don't play the burn-outs or the songs that didn't quite make the leap into the 21st century.

I did some research recently and found a station in a large market that is listed as playing beautiful music, and they were in the Top 5 of rated stations (I seem to recall them being #2, but I wasn't researching that, so the memory isn't all that clear). And I don't remember which market. So I still believe any relevant format can work if done right. Beautiful Music may not be considered relevant today, but it's working for somebody.