Is this true? Tell me it isn't true! It can't be! Why is nobody talkingabout it?

[davideduardo]

However, urban AC is a different thing... some run as high as 95% Black cume, with nearly no Hispanic and little non-Hispanic white listening.

Yeah, "some" but that doesn't imply to all, and this market is one of those exceptions to that trend.

Only in the East (DC, NY, Miami et. al.) do Urban AC stations do somewhat well among Hispanics and that is because of the high percentage of Hispanics with Afro-Antillean heritage. In the Southwest... including San Francisco... Urban AC gets very low usage by Hispanics.

The Bay Area's 2 markets (San Francisco-Oakland & San Jose) aren't known for either huge black populations overall rather pockets.

Actually, the Bay Area only has one market, the San Francisco MSA. San Jose is an embedded market, fully contained in the San Francisco MSA; a listener in the San Jose book is also a listener in the San Francisco book.

 

[e-dawg]

David, since you said, "Asians don't count in the Arbitron ratings", then were do they count in? The San Francisco bay area has about 35% Asian American population, also with that blanket statement, what about Honolulu Market, 60% Asians? So are we considered to be invisible towards radio?

 

[davideduardo]

David, since you said, "Asians don't count in the Arbitron ratings", then were do they count in? The San Francisco bay area has about 35% Asian American population, also with that blanket statement, what about Honolulu Market, 60% Asians? So are we considered to be invisible towards radio?

Asians "count" but are not subject for specific sample controls. In other words, "Asian" is not a stratification variable, and there are no sample quotas or proportionality objectives or weighting for Asians, nor are there speakers of the various Asian languages on the recruit staff (unless serendipitously).

Only Blacks and Hispanics are subject for DST, a set of procedures to guarantee inclusion of those groups in the survey in the proper percentages.

Asians are not excluded from the survey... they are just treated like all other ethnicities except for the two mentioned... and just like non-Hispanic whites. If Asians are randomly encountered in recruitment, they are included if they accept.

 

[kilamanjero]

However, urban AC is a different thing... some run as high as 95% Black cume, with nearly no Hispanic and little non-Hispanic white listening.

Yeah, "some" but that doesn't imply to all, and this market is one of those exceptions to that trend.

Only in the East (DC, NY, Miami et. al.) do Urban AC stations do somewhat well among Hispanics and that is because of the high percentage of Hispanics with Afro-Antillean heritage. In the Southwest... including San Francisco... Urban AC gets very low usage by Hispanics.

The Bay Area's 2 markets (San Francisco-Oakland & San Jose) aren't known for either huge black populations overall rather pockets.

Actually, the Bay Area only has one market, the San Francisco MSA. San Jose is an embedded market, fully contained in the San Francisco MSA; a listener in the San Jose book is also a listener in the San Francisco book.

Really? Why is the San Jose area is ranked as the 36th largest radio market in the nation according to Arbitron?

Arbitron doesn't list anywhere about the embedding of San Jose within the San Francisco market under its ranking. The way things are set up from what I've always read and data I've seen always treats it as a separate market on to itself that happens to have overlap with San Francisco.

 

[davideduardo]

Actually, the Bay Area only has one market, the San Francisco MSA. San Jose is an embedded market, fully contained in the San Francisco MSA; a listener in the San Jose book is also a listener in the San Francisco book.


Really? Why is the San Jose area is ranked as the 36th largest radio market in the nation according to Arbitron?

Embedded markets are ranked separately because all measured markets are given a radio market rank. New York City has various embedded markets, the biggest one being Nassau / Suffolk. They are (with an exception) all totally contained inside the NY radio market metro (one market has a metro county and a non-metro county forming a rather unique situation).

In any case, if you look at the market definition, Santa Clara County is part of the San Francisco MSA. However, the stations there pay extra to have a separate book... and to issue a book, the county has to have the same sample standards as any metro... standards that are stricter than were it just "any old county" among many in the market.

Arbitron doesn't list anywhere about the embedding of San Jose within the San Francisco market under its ranking. The way things are set up from what I've always read and data I've seen always treats it as a separate market on to itself that happens to have overlap with San Francisco.

In the market definitions and the market maps it is clearly shown as fully contained within the SF metro.

 

[davideduardo]

Arbitron doesn't list anywhere about the embedding of San Jose within the San Francisco market under its ranking. The way things are set up from what I've always read and data I've seen always treats it as a separate market on to itself that happens to have overlap with San Francisco.

Go to

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Research_Arbitron.htm

Go to the blue box with Arbitron MSA maps, and get the 2011 map. In the lower left corner, it shows that Santa Rosa and San Jose are both markets embedded in the SF metro. You have to click to expand the map quite a few times, though.

 

[AM FM listener]

Arbitron doesn't list anywhere about the embedding of San Jose within the San Francisco market under its ranking. The way things are set up from what I've always read and data I've seen always treats it as a separate market on to itself that happens to have overlap with San Francisco.

Go to
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Research_Arbitron.htm
Go to the blue box with Arbitron MSA maps, and get the 2011 map. In the lower left corner, it shows that Santa Rosa and San Jose are both markets embedded in the SF metro. You have to click to expand the map quite a few times, though.

Interesting map. I noticed that around LA, there are two areas with lots of people but not part of any "metro area": (1) in between LA and Oxnard (Thousand Oaks?), and (2) in between LA and Riverside (Ontario?). Do people there not count? Why is that?

 

[DavidKaye]

Interesting map. I noticed that around LA, there are two areas with lots of people but not part of any "metro area": (1) in between LA and Oxnard (Thousand Oaks?), and (2) in between LA and Riverside (Ontario?). Do people there not count? Why is that?

People only count when there are stations willing to pay to count them. Lots of areas aren't counted because the service area doesn't suit the advertisers.

 

[davideduardo]

Interesting map. I noticed that around LA, there are two areas with lots of people but not part of any "metro area": (1) in between LA and Oxnard (Thousand Oaks?), and (2) in between LA and Riverside (Ontario?). Do people there not count? Why is that?

In both cases, we have the same thing: an area between the centers of two distinct markets.

The Riverside / San Berdoo stations don't want the area because the LA stations do so well there that their shares would be averaged down. And the LA stations don't want it because the Inland Empire stations do so well they would bring down their averages.

Same goes for the Oxnard/Ventura market and the LA market.

The area in the Inland Empire is from the LA county line at Ontario all the way from Fontana and Rialto along the 210 Freeway. We call it the "no man's land" as nobody wants it.

 

[e-dawg]

Also, if you notice the DJ's on KBLX. They're not all black DJ's. A diverse DJ's.

http://www.kblx.com/talent/

 

[kilamanjero]

Also, if you notice the DJ's on KBLX. They're not all black DJ's. A diverse DJ's.

http://www.kblx.com/talent/

That is very true, hence why I don't believe the only majority of listeners of KBLX are blacks. KBLX like KMEL and KISQ targets blacks, whites, Latinos, and Asians, hence the reflection of their on-air line-up. Blacks are the core because of the format classification, but the individual stations in this market actively attempts to pull anyone that enjoys the musical composition.

 

[davideduardo]

That is very true, hence why I don't believe the only majority of listeners of KBLX are blacks.

There can't be more than one majority as "majority" means "over half."

KBLX like KMEL and KISQ targets blacks, whites, Latinos, and Asians, hence the reflection of their on-air line-up. Blacks are the core because of the format classification, but the individual stations in this market actively attempts to pull anyone that enjoys the musical composition.

The market is 6.7% Black and 23% Hispanic, yet KBLX has 70% Black listeners and under 13% Hispanic based on an average of the last 6 books excluding Holiday. In other words, relatively few Hispanics listen.

There is no Arbitron metric on Asians, as I have mentioned. So speculation on that account is not really productive.

As a matter of curiosity or even discussion, KBLX selected "Adult Contemporary" as its format from all the Arbitron options... not Urban A/C. Yet it still has 70% Black listening in a market with under 7% Black population.

In general, stations pick a description that fits the station. If a station picks a description that is not accurate, other stations in the market will generally object.

 

[kilamanjero]

That is very true, hence why I don't believe the only majority of listeners of KBLX are blacks.

There can't be more than one majority as "majority" means "over half."

KBLX like KMEL and KISQ targets blacks, whites, Latinos, and Asians, hence the reflection of their on-air line-up. Blacks are the core because of the format classification, but the individual stations in this market actively attempts to pull anyone that enjoys the musical composition.

The market is 6.7% Black and 23% Hispanic, yet KBLX has 70% Black listeners and under 13% Hispanic based on an average of the last 6 books excluding Holiday. In other words, relatively few Hispanics listen.

There is no Arbitron metric on Asians, as I have mentioned. So speculation on that account is not really productive.

As a matter of curiosity or even discussion, KBLX selected "Adult Contemporary" as its format from all the Arbitron options... not Urban A/C. Yet it still has 70% Black listening in a market with under 7% Black population.

In general, stations pick a description that fits the station. If a station picks a description that is not accurate, other stations in the market will generally object.

I'm aware with the fact not being more than one majority, and that is non sequitur to the conversation.

On the classification of KBLX, apparently no other station in the market cares to object hence why they have done so for years. The format classification is something many stations do in different market for a variety of reasons, but usually it for ad revenue purposes. Musically, the station is a UAC, but they want to call themselves AC then so be it.

 

[wdb2003]

Their ratings are still pretty good for a R&B station in California these days compared to the 80's and 90's. I know KBLX is program outside the box. Not the usual cookie cutter Urban AC either. When they played Jason Marz over the summer last year I thought I my iphone switch stations by accident. Still sounded pretty good. Whoever ends up with it I hope it doesnt become the same situation that happen in Los Angeles with 100.3FM going to Bonneville. They dropped a low rated format for another low rated format.

 

[1069_KIFR]

Their ratings are still pretty good for a R&B station in California these days compared to the 80's and 90's. I know KBLX is program outside the box. Not the usual cookie cutter Urban AC either. When they played Jason Marz over the summer last year I thought I my iphone switch stations by accident. Still sounded pretty good. Whoever ends up with it I hope it doesnt become the same situation that happen in Los Angeles with 100.3FM going to Bonneville. They dropped a low rated format for another low rated format.

Bonneville got rid of 100.3, Pirate Radio?! NO!!

 

[DavidKaye]

Also, if you notice the DJ's on KBLX. They're not all black DJ's. A diverse DJ's.

http://www.kblx.com/talent/

It's been that way since it was KRE and KRE-FM and Rob Singleton was program director, and that goes back a long way...

 

[bringbackradio]

It might considering Oakland has a large and very active black community. In this region, not only do blacks listen to urban formatted radio stations, but a number of Latinos and some Asians as well.

However, urban AC is a different thing... some run as high as 95% Black cume, with nearly no Hispanic and little non-Hispanic white listening.

Yeah, "some" but that doesn't imply to all, and this market is one of those exceptions to that trend. The Bay Area's 2 markets (San Francisco-Oakland & San Jose) aren't known for either huge black populations overall rather pockets.

In a way, the San Francisco market was a trendsetter to where a major radio market can still succeed at having any urban-formatted commercial station, even if Blacks represent 10% of less, as long as there are huge community clusters to back up support to keep it on the air. Markets like Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, Boston and Tampa/St. Petersburg managed to have true urban stations over long periods of time; in each case many of the stations are no longer around (KKBT/KRBV, WAMO, WILD, WTMP). All the major ones in Oklahoma manage to have urban stations still on the air where Perry Broadcasting has a presence; another example is Lexington where that market managed to gain three more stations in addition to WBTF there.

But others have had short lived urbans that didn't make at least ten years on the air such as in Sacramento (KBMB), Austin (KJCE), San Antonio (KSJL), Phoenix (KMJK), Albany and Las Vegas (KVGS). Which leaves the Bay Area as the longest surviving market to support at least two urbans as opposed to just one.

 

[wdb2003]

Vegas still has non commercia KCEP 88.1 which has been on the air for years.

 

[science]

Vegas still has non commercia KCEP 88.1 which has been on the air for years.

...and Austin also has non-commercial KAZI 88.7 FM

 

[MarioMania]

So what does it say for KBLX? Format Change? if someone get's it

or keep the current format