It's 2015! Time to get rid of the '70s.

[oldies76]

In other words, the shorter the playlist, the higher they rank? I thought so.

You'd have a good point if those three stations were classic hits, but they aren't. You'd expect small playlists from a CHR and a HOT AC and besides, in that area, currents would most likely top the rankings anyways due to popularity and population.

What the average size of a CHR playlist? About 30? HOT AC, less than 100?

Now, if any those stations were classic hits, then yes in your case, you'd expect a higher ranking than #4 with a smaller playlist of classics, but that's not the case there.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Well here's KWRP 690's stream if anyone's interested:

http://tunein.com/radio/Cruisin-KWRP-690-s35056/

Yes, tune them in quickly before they realize they're bleeding red ink and switch formats.

A 0.0 in all demos and dayparts? That's called "the equivalent of being off the air". But it isn't surprising. A market the size of Pueblo isn't going to be able to afford consultants or music research, so they are either going to pick up a satellite-delivered format or muddle along without any idea whether or not they're playing the right songs.

I'd bet they have a copy of the Whitburn Hot 100 book marked "Holy Bible" in whatever passes for their programming offices. Back in the 1970s and 1980s they would have bought a Schafer automation system and a pre-produced format on tape from Century 21 and hoped for the best.

Over on your former favorite board there is a discussion about the changes talk-formatted KABC is making to their lineup. Naturally, one of the posters that used to agree with you on everything tried to divert the thread by saying they should go '50s and '60s oldies. I'm mentioning that because of a response that popped up there this morning ... and no, I didn't write it, but I am going to boldface the part that I want to have hit you like a brick:

I have posted this thought in other threads but it bears repeating in regards to the Oldies format: People fail to realize just how many years have gone by since those "Oldies" tunes were brand new, and how old the audience for them has become.

Consider this: We are now closer in time to the 21st Century version of "The 60"s" than we are to the 20th Century incarnation of that decade.

2060 is 45 years away, exactly as far away as 1970. 1960 was 55 years ago.

 

[TheBigA]

Now, if any those stations were classic hits, then yes in your case, you'd expect a higher ranking than #4 with a smaller playlist of classics, but that's not the case there.

OK, then let's look at the converse, shall we? Classic hits stations with BIGGER playlists, such as Jack and The Sound rank LOWER than the #4 station. So adding songs to a playlist does not result in higher ratings. Right?

 

[oldies76]

Yes, tune them in quickly before they realize they're bleeding red ink and switch formats.

I doubt it. They've broadcasting classic hits for over a year or two on 690.

A 0.0 in all demos and dayparts? That's called "the equivalent of being off the air". But it isn't surprising. A market the size of Pueblo isn't going to be able to afford consultants or music research, so they are either going to pick up a satellite-delivered format or muddle along without any idea whether or not they're playing the right songs.

But why should a small town radio station spend all that money?? Many small stations are that way. And they are unique for their selections. Not every single classic hits station has to sound like your station out west, you know.

I'd bet they have a copy of the Whitburn Hot 100 book marked "Holy Bible" in whatever passes for their programming offices.

So do I, and it's fascinating stuff! You should read it.

Over on your former favorite board there is a discussion about the changes talk-formatted KABC is making to their lineup. Naturally, one of the posters that used to agree with you on everything tried to divert the thread by saying they should go '50s and '60s oldies.

Oh, I'm sure he still agrees with me. I just don't post there for now.

2060 is 45 years away, exactly as far away as 1970. 1960 was 55 years ago.

Exactly, but that music is still timeless, so it lasts. Certain classics stations are preventing that from happening, if you get my drift. And in 2064, it'll be 100 years since the airplane landed and some stations will acknowledge that with tribute.

 

[davideduardo]

Exactly, but that music is still timeless, so it lasts. Certain classics stations are preventing that from happening, if you get my drift. And in 2064, it'll be 100 years since the airplane landed and some stations will acknowledge that with tribute.

No station is preventing "that" from happening. The reality of the advertising market is.

In larger markets, so much of the total available ad pool comes from agencies that offering an audience that has essentially no demand is a kiss of financial death. In smaller markets where most revenue is local direct, you can sometimes get by with an older audience, but when the advertiser discovers that you bring few customers and those that come are perceived as being old and stingy, you don't get bought again.

I'm sure there are celebrations for all kinds of events. The 100th year of the gramophone and recorded music does not mean anyone is going to want to listen to the content of early cylinder recordings. And the 1000th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings coming up soon does not mean we are going to kill 6,000 people in reenactments.

One thing is to recognize the roots of things... another is to recreate them.

 

[davideduardo]

OK, then let's look at the converse, shall we? Classic hits stations with BIGGER playlists, such as Jack and The Sound rank LOWER than the #4 station. So adding songs to a playlist does not result in higher ratings. Right?

And the problem with the Jack-like stations is that the "oh wow" value they initially had wore off. Many of the songs were not strong, and listeners tired of hearing them over time. So libraries that started at 1200 or so songs have shrunken to 700 or 800 where Adult Hits stations have managed to survive.

 

[davideduardo]

You'd have a good point if those three stations were classic hits, but they aren't. You'd expect small playlists from a CHR and a HOT AC and besides, in that area, currents would most likely top the rankings anyways due to popularity and population.

Showing that when people grow up on short playlists of ultra-strong hits, they expect to only hear hits as they mature into other formats.

What the average size of a CHR playlist? About 30? HOT AC, less than 100?

CHR stations have around 220 to 300 songs in the library. Hot AC stations are around 250 to 300. Most successful CHR in the country, KIIS: 254 songs. Most successful Hot AC station in the country: KBIG, 284 songs.

 

[davideduardo]

Do stations like this, that play mainstream music, report their airplay to the following charts: http://www.joy995.com/Joy_99.5/Home.html

http://www.mediabase.com/mmrweb/allaboutcountry/Charts.asp?format=A1R
http://charts.bdsradio.com/bdsradiocharts/charts.aspx?formatid=3
http://www.billboard.com/charts/adult-contemporary#/charts/adult-contemporary

BigA already noted that stations no longer "report" to the trades or chart aggregatiors. All spins are detected by monitoring... the station submits nothing.

In addition, stations did not and do not get their play data included voluntarily. The entity that does the charting goes through a rigorous process of selection to decide which stations (or streams) get included and only those that meet certain criteria such as market rank or concurrent streams get selected.

 

[Music Lover]

This is an AC I used to listen to when it was in the Soft Hits era. That's actually the only station that still exists, although in a different form. The other AC's I enjoyed from the Soft Hits era have changed to other genres by now. Anyway, their playlist has a total of 392 songs. http://www.995wmag.com/music/playlist/ They label themselves as 80's, 90's, and 2000's, yet have about 10-20 songs from the 70's in the mix, mostly appearing to be The Bee Gees and The Eagles.

 

[Unregistered]

Good music, period

Good Lord! How can anyone in the 21st century still cling to the outdated 20th century practice of programming radio stations based on the year that a song was released? If a song sounds good and fits well with the other songs being played, then play it. When it was recorded or released is irrelevant.

This is the stand I hold, as evident, in that right NOW, this very second, I'm hearing Etta James' "At Last" on TV in a State Farm spot. My 18 yr old daughter enjoys listening to Frank Sinatra; explain THAT. Madison Avenue is constantly drawing from the 60s: AMC's "Mad Men" was tops with audiences and critics. What is to say good music, period, doesn't have a solid, money-spending audience?

[email protected]
Facebook: Saturday Morning Cartoons on the Radio

 

[Music Lover]

This station's blog mentions about listeners turning to the world wide web because of becoming dissatisfied with traditional AM and FM radio.

http://lite99.blogspot.com/2014/09/faq-about-birminghams-new-lite-99.html

If Lite 99 is only available via the internet, how can it be a radio station?

Internet radio has come a long way in the past few years as a result of listeners who have become increasingly frustrated and dissatisfied with traditional AM and FM radio. Internet radio stations offer programming that many corporate radio owners would never even attempt to try, much less offer.

 

[Music Lover]

That appears to be an internet-only station. The charts you list are airplay charts, using either on-air or satellite radio. Major stations don't "report" their airplay, but have it monitored electronically to ensure accuracy.

Billboard's Hot 100 chart includes streaming and other platforms. But from what I can see, that particular station has negligible traffic, so it would have virtually no impact in a national chart. Also, the majority of the music is gold, and the charts are mainly done to track currents.

The thing I like about such stations is being able to hear cool songs like this, that haven't even shown up on the US charts: www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAwYodrBr2Q

 

[oldies76]

The 100th year of the gramophone and recorded music does not mean anyone is going to want to listen to the content of early cylinder recordings. And the 1000th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings coming up soon does not mean we are going to kill 6,000 people in reenactments.

One thing is to recognize the roots of things... another is to recreate them.

You are going to extremes with the Battle of Hastings "example".

Why would it be difficult to play Beatles music in 2064??? Heck, I'd play Bill Haley in 2055 and Stayin' Alive in 2078, but it won't matter since none of us will be around to experience that, but our kids might!

 

[oldies76]

OK, then let's look at the converse, shall we? Classic hits stations with BIGGER playlists, such as Jack and The Sound rank LOWER than the #4 station. So adding songs to a playlist does not result in higher ratings. Right?

Technically, they are not true classic hits stations, like KOOL or WOGL. The only way to really find out is to have TWO classic hits stations in the same market going head to head and see which one has the larger playlist and which one is ahead. I don't think you can count KOLA in that market, so we cannot compare.

 

[oldies76]

And the problem with the Jack-like stations is that the "oh wow" value they initially had wore off. Many of the songs were not strong, and listeners tired of hearing them over time.

You're probably right about some of the Oh Wow's, but listeners tire over repeated strong songs too. It's both ways. 50/50. Or maybe 51-49, I'll give you the extra point.

 

[oldies76]

Showing that when people grow up on short playlists of ultra-strong hits, they expect to only hear hits as they mature into other formats.



CHR stations have around 220 to 300 songs in the library.

If CHR stations are only playing the biggest currents of the week or month and many times a day, (KIIS, KPWR, and locally Magic FM - KKMG) how can they have up to 300 songs in rotation, or do they keep recent hits from years past?
But then, those would not be rotated regularly.

 

[TheBigA]

I don't think you can count KOLA in that market, so we cannot compare.

They don't need another station. They have more listeners now that when they themselves had a bigger playlist. They are beating themselves.

My point is that there is NO format with a bigger playlist that is getting better ratings. I'm saying REGARDLESS of format.

 

[oldies76]

I'm mentioning that because of a response that popped up there this morning ... and no, I didn't write it, but I am going to boldface the part that I want to have hit you like a brick:



2060 is 45 years away, exactly as far away as 1970. 1960 was 55 years ago.

I get Mediafrog's point. Remember, we're dealing with the Rock and Roll era, which contain many, many songs that are timeless. 2060's music is not 1960's music. The later involves many tunes that will not just disappear. Like I mentioned earlier, some stations will tribute the Fab Four and the Stones in 2064 or Elvis and Bill Haley in the 2050's. The list goes on.

Technology will allow that. Hearing 1915 music today is really not possible, unless you want scratches and pops and loud hiss throughout your music. Technology has allowed us to preserve rock and roll music much better than previous eras.

 

[semoochie]

I'm always intrigued by this reference to "timeless" music. 50 years ago, Frank Sinatra and his ilk were considered timeless and rock music was assumed to be disposable. It's unlikely that anyone will know who any of them were in another 50 years and certainly, no one will care. Rock music is in the same boat, just a little further back.

 

[davideduardo]

If CHR stations are only playing the biggest currents of the week or month and many times a day, (KIIS, KPWR, and locally Magic FM - KKMG) how can they have up to 300 songs in rotation, or do they keep recent hits from years past?
But then, those would not be rotated regularly.

CHR's play loads of recurrents in very fast rotations, and also have recent throwbacks.

All that happens is a song that is a big hit goes from 90 spins a week down to 50 and then to 30 and so on as the passion for it decreases.

There will also be songs that are dayparted, and some that go just in the mix shows.

Remember, the target for a CHR is women 18-44.