January 2012 Ratings for San Jose and San Francisco.

[JEREMIAH]

I guess no one remembers KSAN in the 80's and 90"s with killer ratings and billing a million a month (my wife did traffic and continuity there).

Why they killed it is anyones guess. Did the country audience get abducted by Aliens? What happened to that large group of country fans?

Beats the s**t out of me.

Jerry Gordon....... Jack b. Show Salem radio network.

 

[SFStatic]

Hey, Jerry. My understanding from being in the building at the time (at the two non-country stations) was that the suits panicked over Young Country coming to town and blew out all the great talent and restaffed and retooled it...which pissed off the listeners. Dropped like a rock from the 4.5 share they had 25-54. It never recovered after that, and when they sold out, (Evergreen Media? I can't remember, the company changed names about 3 times before being rolled up into what became Clear Channel) didn't have much interest in country. A damned shame.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

95.7 The Wolf did quite well IIRC, but tanked when some personnel changes were made. I believe that the PD or GM relocated to the Pacific Northwest.

 

[stewie]

95.7 The Wolf did quite well IIRC, but tanked when some personnel changes were made. I believe that the PD or GM relocated to the Pacific Northwest.

So it sounds like Country continues to suffer the same fate. Perhaps there's a lesson to be learned. Country listeners don't like their station re-tooled.

Yes, I remember 94.9 KSAN very well. Did it get blown out when KYLD took over that signal or did it end up moving to 107.7 (as a country station) for a short time? All this thinking is making my head hurt.

 

[1069_KIFR]

When KSAN moved from 94.9 to 107.7, it changed to Classic Rock at that time.

I remember on their web site. It was a simple picture of a tombstone, inscribed "We Never Lost"

 

[HenryOchs]

When KSAN moved from 94.9 to 107.7, it changed to Classic Rock at that time.

I remember on their web site. It was a simple picture of a tombstone, inscribed "We Never Lost"

I remember it quite well! Maybe Clear Channel should flip one of their stations, or at least one of their HD-2 stations, to Country! I think CBS Radio, Bonneville and Entercom tried this format, but failed at it. It would be interesting how CC does with it

 

[LKellerIII]

When KSAN moved from 94.9 to 107.7, it changed to Classic Rock at that time.

I remember on their web site. It was a simple picture of a tombstone, inscribed "We Never Lost"

I remember it quite well! Maybe Clear Channel should flip one of their stations, or at least one of their HD-2 stations, to Country! I think CBS Radio, Bonneville and Entercom tried this format, but failed at it. It would be interesting how CC does with it

Bonneville tried The Bear on 95.7, and of course, there was The Wolf, flipped to country by Entercom, and also on 95.7. IIRC, both stations did respectably well in the ratings at first, but not so well over time.

 

[LKellerIII]

When KSAN moved from 94.9 to 107.7, it changed to Classic Rock at that time.

I remember on their web site. It was a simple picture of a tombstone, inscribed "We Never Lost"

I remember it quite well! Maybe Clear Channel should flip one of their stations, or at least one of their HD-2 stations, to Country! I think CBS Radio, Bonneville and Entercom tried this format, but failed at it. It would be interesting how CC does with it

I have no idea why that posted twice.

 

[DJBigOne]

So it sounds like Country continues to suffer the same fate. Perhaps there's a lesson to be learned. Country listeners don't like their station re-tooled.

Soooo "tooled" was the key word for these stations. 8)

 

[KimmiKat]

I thought that when 99.7 went from oldies to another Rhythmic station....

Also about flipping one of the "HD2s" to Country, only about 7 people would be able to hear that since "HD Radio" is dying.

The Bay Area needs a Country music station worse than another CHR or Rhythmic! We already have too many of those!

 

[recto101]

KLIV gets a 1.6 in a books in January. How can KLIV live on as an all-news station when KGO gets a 4.7 in San Jose and KCBS 740/106.9 gets a 3.2 in San Jose but a 6.6 in SFO.

How can San Jose and New York handle 3 All News stations?

Or San Francisco Handling 3 all-Sports stations.

The KLIV anchor at 4:30pm is like an odd sounding Dave McQueen (Former KCBS 740 anchor).

 

[DavidKaye]

KLIV gets a 1.6 in a books in January. How can KLIV live on as an all-news station when KGO gets a 4.7 in San Jose and KCBS 740/106.9 gets a 3.2 in San Jose but a 6.6 in SFO.

You think in ratings, not in income and expenses. KLIV is largely a network newscast with local drop-ins throughout the hour. They don't need a large staff to make it work. Plus, if they can find enough local clients they can make it work.

I once worked for KWUN 1480 in Concord (now defunct), which was a 500 watt daytimer though most of its life. The station never made a dent in the Arbitrons, and was further hampered by the fact that it was considered part of the SF market, and thus all the good network and syndie programming was already swooped up by the big stations. And yet when I worked there, they managed to sell LOTS of advertising and support a staff of 7 fulltimers and 4 or 5 parttimers and turn enough profit to satisfy 3 investors.

The owner, Bill Adler was a champion salesman. He moved mountains to get advertising, and when things were slow he'd fill up the schedule with free bonus spots to longstanding advertisers to make the station "feel full". At the time I was there, KWUN had the Mutual affiliation, covered high school sports, did remotes from shopping centers, and even sold the sign-off. (I've mentioned this before... "It's the end of another broadcast day at KWUN, but just the beginning of fine dining at John Jawad's Pioneer Inn in Clayton...")

I haven't listened to KLIV in quite some time, but I assume that KLIV is sold the same way, with the added bonus that they actually show up in the ratings! How cool is that?

 

[stewie]

When KSAN moved from 94.9 to 107.7, it changed to Classic Rock at that time.

I remember on their web site. It was a simple picture of a tombstone, inscribed "We Never Lost"

I remember it quite well! Maybe Clear Channel should flip one of their stations, or at least one of their HD-2 stations, to Country! I think CBS Radio, Bonneville and Entercom tried this format, but failed at it. It would be interesting how CC does with it

HD Radio, what's that?

Having a b**ch of a time finding a good table top HD Radio.

 

[davideduardo]

KLIV gets a 1.6 in a books in January. How can KLIV live on as an all-news station when KGO gets a 4.7 in San Jose and KCBS 740/106.9 gets a 3.2 in San Jose but a 6.6 in SFO.

KLIV sells local time in San Jose at San Jose rates. San Jose is a smaller market embedded in a larger one.

KGO can't sell the 4.7 in San Jose separately because it sells at the rates for the total San Francisco market... many times the local San Jose rates. Same goes for KCBS.

The same applies for the Santa Rosa embedded market... none of the major San Francisco total market stations deploys sellers to Santa Rosa, even if Santa Rosa is part of of the whole San Francisco market. That's because local accounts have no interest in paying big bucks for the hundreds of thousands of listeners a major station uses to set their prices... so they buy the stations that charge for only the Santa Rosa market.

As "the other David" explained, this is a sales issue. If there are local accounts in San Jose who want to be on a news station, then KLIV can survive by controlling costs and offering a rather unique service to the advertisers if not to the listeners.

 

[Mac Daddy]

When KSAN moved from 94.9 to 107.7, it changed to Classic Rock at that time.

I remember on their web site. It was a simple picture of a tombstone, inscribed "We Never Lost"

I remember it quite well! Maybe Clear Channel should flip one of their stations, or at least one of their HD-2 stations, to Country! I think CBS Radio, Bonneville and Entercom tried this format, but failed at it. It would be interesting how CC does with it

HD Radio, what's that?

Having a b**ch of a time finding a good table top HD Radio.

What about Live 105 going country? Or 103.7 if the classic hits format doesn't work out.

 

[1069_KIFR]

Mac Daddy starting a new thread?

 

[recto101]

KLIV gets a 1.6 in a books in January. How can KLIV live on as an all-news station when KGO gets a 4.7 in San Jose and KCBS 740/106.9 gets a 3.2 in San Jose but a 6.6 in SFO.

You think in ratings, not in income and expenses. KLIV is largely a network newscast with local drop-ins throughout the hour. They don't need a large staff to make it work. Plus, if they can find enough local clients they can make it work.

I once worked for KWUN 1480 in Concord (now defunct), which was a 500 watt daytimer though most of its life. The station never made a dent in the Arbitrons, and was further hampered by the fact that it was considered part of the SF market, and thus all the good network and syndie programming was already swooped up by the big stations. And yet when I worked there, they managed to sell LOTS of advertising and support a staff of 7 fulltimers and 4 or 5 parttimers and turn enough profit to satisfy 3 investors.

The owner, Bill Adler was a champion salesman. He moved mountains to get advertising, and when things were slow he'd fill up the schedule with free bonus spots to longstanding advertisers to make the station "feel full". At the time I was there, KWUN had the Mutual affiliation, covered high school sports, did remotes from shopping centers, and even sold the sign-off. (I've mentioned this before... "It's the end of another broadcast day at KWUN, but just the beginning of fine dining at John Jawad's Pioneer Inn in Clayton...")

I haven't listened to KLIV in quite some time, but I assume that KLIV is sold the same way, with the added bonus that they actually show up in the ratings! How cool is that?

Well I know Coast Broadcasting inc in Vacaville (Owners of KUIC, KKDV and KKIQ) operate the same way as KWUN. They are AC stations but they tend to have more Small Business Owners in Solano County, Diablo Valley and Livermore put their ads there But I know KUIC is a small station that's on the border of the Sacramento Market and the San Francisco Market. I am aware that they operate like the defunct KWUN.

 

[davideduardo]

Well I know Coast Broadcasting inc in Vacaville (Owners of KUIC, KKDV and KKIQ) operate the same way as KWUN. They are AC stations but they tend to have more Small Business Owners in Solano County, Diablo Valley and Livermore put their ads there But I know KUIC is a small station that's on the border of the Sacramento Market and the San Francisco Market. I am aware that they operate like the defunct KWUN.

You are confusing the location of a station with the economics of a station. The economics of stations like you mention focus on the innermost areas of coverage, not the fringe.

Here are some guiding facts:

San Francisco as a radio metro has 7.1 million people. The big stations that cover all or most of them compete for the big dollars from agencies and large regional advertisers who want to reach the whole market.

The smaller local businesses can't afford to pay the big station rates.

Look at each station...

KKIQ covers usefully 880,000 persons, almost all in the SF metro.

KUIC covers about 400,000 persons, almost all in Napa and Solano counties, and shows what are good ratings, coverage considered, in San Francisco and no ratings in Sacramento.

And KKDV covers about 460,000 with a 65 dbu signal and all of them are in the SF metro. It barely makes the book.

But each of these stations has some audience, concentrated in small geographic areas so they are viable in the local communities although agencies and big customers will likely seldom take them into account.

 

[JEREMIAH]

SFSATIC

My wife, Phyllis, remembers the saga of KSAN. When she went there it was Malrite...then Roy Disney's Shamrock...then Evergreen...then Chanslellor-Evergreen...she left before it became Clear Channel. No wonder you got confused. Who wouldn't?

Jerry Gordon

 

[LKellerIII]

I used to like KLIV almost 40 years ago when it was a good Top 40 station, but anywhere north of mid San Mateo County, their signal sucked. I don't think they can be considered a true SF market station.