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K-Earth... Number 1 in the nation? Well, now that CBS FM is gone...

G

Garrett

This might be all academic, but has it occured to anyone that now WCBS is long longer a traditional oldies station, that KRTH is now the Top Oldies station in the country, and the one in which all other Oldies stations may have to look to for guidence?

Scary thought, I know. But, like it or not, that is the case right now!
Thoughts?
 
> This might be all academic, but has it occured to anyone
> that now WCBS is long longer a traditional oldies station,
> that KRTH is now the Top Oldies station in the country, and
> the one in which all other Oldies stations may have to look
> to for guidence?
>
> Scary thought, I know. But, like it or not, that is the case
> right now!
> Thoughts?
>

KZLA is the top country station in the USA. That doesn't say much nor does K-Earth being the top oldies station. It's just the size of this market.
 
> > This might be all academic, but has it occured to anyone
> > that now WCBS is long longer a traditional oldies station,
>
> > that KRTH is now the Top Oldies station in the country,
> and
> > the one in which all other Oldies stations may have to
> look
> > to for guidence?
> >
> > Scary thought, I know. But, like it or not, that is the
> case
> > right now!
> > Thoughts?
> >
>
> KZLA is the top country station in the USA. That doesn't say
> much nor does K-Earth being the top oldies station. It's
> just the size of this market.

Also, if you're talking 12+ ratings (meaningless for most discussions but perhaps relevant for this purpose), the distinction for #1 Oldies station in the U.S. is not KRTH, but Phoenix's KOOL, with around four times the ratings share.
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
> > > This might be all academic, but has it occured to anyone
>
> > > that now WCBS is long longer a traditional oldies
> station,
> >
> > > that KRTH is now the Top Oldies station in the country,
> > and
> > > the one in which all other Oldies stations may have to
> > look
> > > to for guidence?
> > >
> > > Scary thought, I know. But, like it or not, that is the
> > case
> > > right now!
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> >
> > KZLA is the top country station in the USA. That doesn't
> say
> > much nor does K-Earth being the top oldies station. It's
> > just the size of this market.
>
> Also, if you're talking 12+ ratings (meaningless for most
> discussions but perhaps relevant for this purpose), the
> distinction for #1 Oldies station in the U.S. is not KRTH,
> but Phoenix's KOOL, with around four times the ratings
> share.
>

Also Majic and Kool is South FL are doing ok.<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>
 
> Also, if you're talking 12+ ratings (meaningless for most
> discussions but perhaps relevant for this purpose), the
> distinction for #1 Oldies station in the U.S. is not KRTH,
> but Phoenix's KOOL, with around four times the ratings
> share.
>
Oh yes, I realize this.
But I just mean that from the perspective of "largest" market, that it might have some effect. I'm sure that there are some stations from small town America who look to top to see where the trend is going.

But I realize that it also can not be overlooked that ratingswise KRTH is just a pistons short of 6 pack of eggs.
 
> > > > This might be all academic, but has it occured to
> anyone
> >
> > > > that now WCBS is long longer a traditional oldies
> > station,
> > >
> > > > that KRTH is now the Top Oldies station in the
> country,
> > > and
> > > > the one in which all other Oldies stations may have to
>
> > > look
> > > > to for guidence?
> > > >
> > > > Scary thought, I know. But, like it or not, that is
> the
> > > case
> > > > right now!
> > > > Thoughts?
> > > >
> > >
> > > KZLA is the top country station in the USA. That doesn't
>
> > say
> > > much nor does K-Earth being the top oldies station. It's
>
> > > just the size of this market.
> >
> > Also, if you're talking 12+ ratings (meaningless for most
> > discussions but perhaps relevant for this purpose), the
> > distinction for #1 Oldies station in the U.S. is not KRTH,
>
> > but Phoenix's KOOL, with around four times the ratings
> > share.
> >
>
> Also Majic and Kool is South FL are doing ok.
>


Yes, KRTH would have to be considered No. 1 with a cume near 1.2 million.
 
> Also Majic and Kool is South FL are doing ok.
>

They are hot in zips stacked with a large amount of "older" demos.
 
> > > > > This might be all academic, but has it occured to
> > anyone
> > >
> > > > > that now WCBS is long longer a traditional oldies
> > > station,
> > > >
> > > > > that KRTH is now the Top Oldies station in the
> > country,
> > > > and
> > > > > the one in which all other Oldies stations may have
> to
> >
> > > > look
> > > > > to for guidence?
> > > > >
> > > > > Scary thought, I know. But, like it or not, that is
> > the
> > > > case
> > > > > right now!
> > > > > Thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > KZLA is the top country station in the USA. That
> doesn't
> >
> > > say
> > > > much nor does K-Earth being the top oldies station.
> It's
> >
> > > > just the size of this market.
> > >
> > > Also, if you're talking 12+ ratings (meaningless for
> most
> > > discussions but perhaps relevant for this purpose), the
> > > distinction for #1 Oldies station in the U.S. is not
> KRTH,
> >
> > > but Phoenix's KOOL, with around four times the ratings
> > > share.
> > >
> >
> > Also Majic and Kool is South FL are doing ok.
> >
>
>
> Yes, KRTH would have to be considered No. 1 with a cume near
> 1.2 million.
>
Having people come to the station does not make them #1, If your just looking at cume fine, but the true test is SHARE of audience and ranking of position in regards to other stations in market. K-EARTH used to be great in the 70's and 80's but pales in today's standards! The spring book will prove that K-EARTH is really OVER!
 
Uh, how do you know what the "spring book" will show if it has not been published yet?

Anything less is specluating and projecting. How accurate is that?

> Having people come to the station does not make them #1, If
> your just looking at cume fine, but the true test is SHARE
> of audience and ranking of position in regards to other
> stations in market. K-EARTH used to be great in the 70's
> and 80's but pales in today's standards! The spring book
> will prove that K-EARTH is really OVER!
>
 
> Uh, how do you know what the "spring book" will show if it
> has not been published yet?
>
> Anything less is specluating and projecting. How accurate is
> that?

Plus, the cume in the market is moving around with "Jack" coming in. Because KRTH is a big cuming station, it is affected by a number of stations that aren't necessarily direct competitors - just as KIIS is. Plus, KRTH changed their morning show. I still believe it is way too early to throw dirt on KRTH.

I don't think a station that has been doing a format for decades can be deemed over that quickly. Remember, prior to Mike Philips joining and Bill Drake consulting in the early 90's - KRTH actually got into a tight battle with KODJ/KCBS-FM when they were oldies. Drake and Philips revamped KRTH - focusing it where it still is now - and eventually put KODJ/KCBS-FM out of business. Granted, the demos were much younger then - but KRTH actually slid below a 2 share for one book.





>
> > Having people come to the station does not make them #1,
> If
> > your just looking at cume fine, but the true test is SHARE
>
> > of audience and ranking of position in regards to other
> > stations in market. K-EARTH used to be great in the 70's
> > and 80's but pales in today's standards! The spring book
> > will prove that K-EARTH is really OVER!
> >
>
 
> I don't think a station that has been doing a format for
> decades can be deemed over that quickly.

Really? Have you been asleep since prior to 2 PM PDT Friday. Think New York City and Chicago.

> > > K-EARTH used to be great in the
> 70's
> > > and 80's but pales in today's standards!

K-Earth was mostly automated and live assist in the 70's thru mid 80's. What was great about it? Even their best morning show, London & Engleman left for K-West 106 in 1981. And it wasn't an oldies station then either. Unless you call playing current songs like Turning Japanese, We've Got the Beat and Another One Bites the Dust when they are CURRENTS, oldies.
 
> > I don't think a station that has been doing a format for
> > decades can be deemed over that quickly.
>
> Really? Have you been asleep since prior to 2 PM PDT Friday.
> Think New York City and Chicago.

No one said those moves were smart. Again, WCBS-FM billed $34 million in 2004 - more than double what WNEW did. Yet, they flipped WCBS-FM. They may be a myriad of reasons why they did it and we can speculate all day.




>
> > > > K-EARTH used to be great in the
> > 70's
> > > > and 80's but pales in today's standards!
>
> K-Earth was mostly automated and live assist in the 70's
> thru mid 80's. What was great about it? Even their best
> morning show, London & Engleman left for K-West 106 in 1981.
> And it wasn't an oldies station then either. Unless you call
> playing current songs like Turning Japanese, We've Got the
> Beat and Another One Bites the Dust when they are CURRENTS,
> oldies.
>
It wasn't that great back then - you are right. They had the oldies brand to a certain extent - because their currents were limited - and they had weekends where they played only oldies ... But it was on target during the mid 80's until it fell apart in the early 90's (Phil Hall had a nice run with it). Once Drake got involved again, it really turned around - but just like every other oldies station - it is aging. But many major market oldies stations have begun to shift musically. It definitely needs to be re-tooled.
 
Oldies are dying off.

I don't know if you noticed but being called an "oldies" station is akin to being on a "death" list.

Oldies stations are dropping off the map faster than you can say Jack Bob Bill Ted Alice Fred and Jill.

The term "Oldies" is going to be non existant as a format in a matter of months. It makes sense, I mean what 60 something former long haired Born To Be Wild'er wants to be called an "Oldie"?

So if they are looking for guidance, the ought to be looking at the writing on the walls.





> > This might be all academic, but has it occured to anyone
> > that now WCBS is long longer a traditional oldies station,
>
> > that KRTH is now the Top Oldies station in the country,
> and
> > the one in which all other Oldies stations may have to
> look
> > to for guidence?
> >
> > Scary thought, I know. But, like it or not, that is the
> case
> > right now!
> > Thoughts?
> >
>
> KZLA is the top country station in the USA. That doesn't say
> much nor does K-Earth being the top oldies station. It's
> just the size of this market.
>
 
> The spring book
> will prove that K-EARTH is really OVER!

Speculation again? *sigh*
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
>
> No one said those moves were smart. Again, WCBS-FM billed
> $34 million in 2004 - more than double what WNEW did. Yet,
> they flipped WCBS-FM. They may be a myriad of reasons why
> they did it and we can speculate all day.

What is to speculate about? It's a smart move. They already have the data from Los Angeles showing the impact on K-Earth and they jumped on a HOT format that brings in the money demos they were starting to lose.

The only people I hear complaining in New York are OLD DEMO listeners. I have not heard ONE analyst complain.

Once Drake got involved again, it really turned around
> - but just like every other oldies station - it is aging.
> But many major market oldies stations have begun to shift
> musically. It definitely needs to be re-tooled.
>

Do us a favor. Go to the Candy Canyon for a few cocktails. Tell your story to everyone and maybe you'll still find someone who cares (I hope that brings a few chuckles to market veterans).
 
Re: Oldies are dying off.

> I don't know if you noticed but being called an "oldies"
> station is akin to being on a "death" list.
>
> Oldies stations are dropping off the map faster than you can
> say Jack Bob Bill Ted Alice Fred and Jill.
>
> The term "Oldies" is going to be non existant as a format in
> a matter of months. It makes sense, I mean what 60 something
> former long haired Born To Be Wild'er wants to be called an
> "Oldie"?
>
> So if they are looking for guidance, the ought to be looking
> at the writing on the walls.

50's/60's oldies stations will only be good fits for some Class A FM's and AM stations in the near future.

I still predict when K-Earth finally bits the dust, cheapskate Saul Levine will pick up the format on 105.1 K-Mozart.
 
Re: Oldies are dying off.

> > I don't know if you noticed but being called an "oldies"
> > station is akin to being on a "death" list.
> >
> > Oldies stations are dropping off the map faster than you
> can
> > say Jack Bob Bill Ted Alice Fred and Jill.
> >
> > The term "Oldies" is going to be non existant as a format
> in
> > a matter of months. It makes sense, I mean what 60
> something
> > former long haired Born To Be Wild'er wants to be called
> an
> > "Oldie"?
> >
> > So if they are looking for guidance, the ought to be
> looking
> > at the writing on the walls.
>
> 50's/60's oldies stations will only be good fits for some
> Class A FM's and AM stations in the near future.
>
> I still predict when K-Earth finally bits the dust,
> cheapskate Saul Levine will pick up the format on 105.1
> K-Mozart.
>



I never agree with you - but for once he is right. If K-Earth abandons Oldies, it will almost surely land on 105.1.
 
> > >
> >
> > KZLA is the top country station in the USA. That doesn't
> say
> > much nor does K-Earth being the top oldies station. It's
> > just the size of this market.
>
> Also, if you're talking 12+ ratings (meaningless for most
> discussions but perhaps relevant for this purpose), the
> distinction for #1 Oldies station in the U.S. is not KRTH,
> but Phoenix's KOOL, with around four times the ratings
> share.
>

and perhaps 4 times the amount of "oldies" that live their in Pheonix to garner those ratings..lol.
 
Re: Oldies are dying off.

> I never agree with you - but for once he is right. If
> K-Earth abandons Oldies, it will almost surely land on
> 105.1.
>
What and replace the middle ages top 40 :)

And talk about your demo dying off. There isn't anybody left from when that music was popular :)

Actually not very likely. I think Saul Levine was once quoted as saying he likes the prestige that KMZT gives him and that even though he doesn't make a lot of money at it, he will keep the format.

The fact that KMZT (even in the presence of KUSC) manages to remain at about number 20 or better for many years indicates the format has some sticking power. But that is a discussion for another thread.

John
 
Re: Oldies are dying off.

> > I never agree with you - but for once he is right. If
> > K-Earth abandons Oldies, it will almost surely land on
> > 105.1.
> >
> What and replace the middle ages top 40 :)
>
> And talk about your demo dying off. There isn't anybody left
> from when that music was popular :)
>
> Actually not very likely. I think Saul Levine was once
> quoted as saying he likes the prestige that KMZT gives him
> and that even though he doesn't make a lot of money at it,
> he will keep the format.
>
> The fact that KMZT (even in the presence of KUSC) manages to
> remain at about number 20 or better for many years indicates
> the format has some sticking power. But that is a discussion
> for another thread.
>
> John
>

Classical has not been a great ratings or revenue winner is Los Angeles ever. 92.3 KFAC was junked by Evergreen Media in 1989 because it had much less than zero growth potential. And now KMZT is off about 1/3 of their ratings (and revenue) over the last year and slipping. He'll change the format to oldies given the opportunity (K-Earth's demise). It won't be the first time he has changed the format of the FM...or AM's (which he changes almost annually on average).
 
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