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"K-I-X-I Mercer Island, Seattle and Cosmopolis on 880"?

In a situation where KJR-FM exists as separate calls from KJR, if there is an HD channel, you would have to ID as KJR-FM-HD1 but if you don't say anything else, you haven't identified the main channel, KJR-FM.

Correct.

Best example of handling the regular and HD ID that I've heard was back when KCBS was still running AM HD: "KCBS AM and HD. KFRC-FM and HD-1. San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose."

At KFBK here in Sacramento, we had a whopper: "KFBK, Sacramento, KBEB HD-2, Sacramento and KFBK-FM, Pollock Pines." I think we only needed one "Sacramento" in that, but we did two.
 
Absolutely this was a common ID strategy. By mentioning outer suburbs or even neighborhoods you could potentially get some diary entries. I don’t know of any studies that prove the theory but it certainly was worth a try.

Not sure if you recall this where we used to work. There were rolodex cards with various areas that were to be used after the primary ID: K*** Seattle.... The research folks determined through call out surveys, areas that needed to be bolstered. Funny thing was; it seemed to me that if there weren't listeners in that area, how would they hear their community in the ID?
 
Correct.

Best example of handling the regular and HD ID that I've heard was back when KCBS was still running AM HD: "KCBS AM and HD. KFRC-FM and HD-1. San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose."

At KFBK here in Sacramento, we had a whopper: "KFBK, Sacramento, KBEB HD-2, Sacramento and KFBK-FM, Pollock Pines." I think we only needed one "Sacramento" in that, but we did two.
Thank you for backing me up! The problem with your KCBS example is that "AM" is not a proper suffix.
 
Thank you for backing me up! The problem with your KCBS example is that "AM" is not a proper suffix.

Yet if they had inserted "1530 AM" instead of just "AM" it would be OK as dial position is one of the accepted things that can go between the calls and the COL.

On the other hand, I don't think the FCC would really take exception to that detail as the station is, indeed, AM.
 
So, a station does have to identify the HD? It seems years ago, I rarely heard an HD identified on an iHeart station, even though they were the big promoters of the technology originally when they were Clear Channel. They've gotten better about it over the years, but I still hear plenty of legals that don't mention the HD.
 
Not sure if you recall this where we used to work. There were rolodex cards with various areas that were to be used after the primary ID: K*** Seattle.... The research folks determined through call out surveys, areas that needed to be bolstered. Funny thing was; it seemed to me that if there weren't listeners in that area, how would they hear their community in the ID?

I don’t actually recall that but I am getting old. My airchecks from id’s on “that” station all are clean. But perhaps there was some different ID liners that didn’t end up on my few airchecks. I was there through the format modification in early ‘80. Kind of a sad period for that great station.
 
Yet if they had inserted "1530 AM" instead of just "AM" it would be OK as dial position is one of the accepted things that can go between the calls and the COL.

On the other hand, I don't think the FCC would really take exception to that detail as the station is, indeed, AM.
That's a good point about the band and frequency insertion. I wasn't going for, for what one could get away but rather what is supposed to be done. I would probably say "740" instead of "1530", when IDing KCBS although KFBK would probably appreciate it! :)
 
The FCC does allow certain things between the call letters and city of license that are very specific. While they have been lax in enforcing, an agent having a bad day is all it takes for a NOV. Since you can add whatever you like before and after, why insert it and risk the chance of getting it wrong. Why not say, 740 AM, KXXX, City of license, your hometown station? The info is there but the call letters and city of license are together so the FCC can't say a thing. I don't know why but I have had so many screw up a legal ID. I put a card in the studio (AM 1520, KYND Cypress, Houston). I had jocks saying KYND at 1520 on your AM dial, serving Houston from Cypress, Texas and any number of variances. I was ripping my hair out saying Read The Card guys! Finally I recorded it and made them play it. And we're talking radio people doing this.
 
ok ok, on the topic of legal ids, when I used to work in Florida.. i would "hide" the legal id.. because im a geek and i thought it was cool. I did live traffic and weather.....

"...that's your Space Coast traffic and weather together it's current 87 in Vero beach, 85 in titusville and your current WTIR Cocoa Beach Temperature is 83. More of CNN Headline news is coming up next"
 
I can't believe this thread is still going. It's a top of hour ID folks. Not a constitutional amendment.

.....and meanwhile, underneath the mountain of other unpassed bills on the Senate Majority Leader's desk (somewhere in the 2016 layer)....

The 28th Amendment:

"Citizens shall enjoy the right of stopping everything they are doing to identify themselves at the top of each hour. Each identification must have parentally assigned initials clearly announced with the suffixes "-Male" or "-Female" and primary city of residence. Withholding of this information shall be subject to fines up to and including revocation of citizen license (birth certificate) and termination of operations...."
 
I can't believe this thread is still going. It's a top of hour ID folks. Not a constitutional amendment.

Kelly, this wouldn't be the first time. There's a whole thread on e of the other boards about stations either skipping the legal or giving it wrong. The ones that annoy me the most are those that don't give the legal anywhere close to the top of e hour or those that bury it in a commercial break. Speaking of legal IDs, has anyone listened to e new night show on Entercom Alternative stations? There's no legal at all there.
 
Kelly, this wouldn't be the first time. There's a whole thread on e of the other boards about stations either skipping the legal or giving it wrong. The ones that annoy me the most are those that don't give the legal anywhere close to the top of e hour or those that bury it in a commercial break. Speaking of legal IDs, has anyone listened to e new night show on Entercom Alternative stations? There's no legal at all there.

As I have said before, the ID is an obsolete vestige of the early days of radio when equipment: interference needed to be identified and listeners often used stations hundreds of miles from their home.

Today, technology allow identification of a signal in many non-intrusive ways. And, after a half-century, American stations for the most part have realized that a name, not a bunch of letters, is a vastly better way to name a station. Interestingly, most of the world never considered call letters to be significant and there they have used station names for identification since the very early days of radio.

As the FCC seems to be be trying to remove obsolete or superseded rules, allowing some type of "hidden" ID (like the PPM identifier) rather than a verbal identifier would be a great step. TV stations can use a video display that is no intrusive; there are alternatives for radio now that we are in licensed station's one-hundredth year! Call letters are, for the most part, obsolete as an audience identifier.

For the moment, at least stations that do not use the call letters as a normal identity brand can place them where they are the least confusing and distracting.

Where calls are useful is in advertising buys as they represent a unique and standardized identifier for over 10,000 commercial stations. But then again, ad agencies in other nations do just fine buying by station name, just as they know the difference between web-based names.
 
As I have said before, the ID is an obsolete vestige of the early days of radio when equipment: interference needed to be identified and listeners often used stations hundreds of miles from their home.

Today, technology allow identification of a signal in many non-intrusive ways. And, after a half-century, American stations for the most part have realized that a name, not a bunch of letters, is a vastly better way to name a station. Interestingly, most of the world never considered call letters to be significant and there they have used station names for identification since the very early days of radio.

As the FCC seems to be be trying to remove obsolete or superseded rules, allowing some type of "hidden" ID (like the PPM identifier) rather than a verbal identifier would be a great step. TV stations can use a video display that is no intrusive; there are alternatives for radio now that we are in licensed station's one-hundredth year! Call letters are, for the most part, obsolete as an audience identifier.

For the moment, at least stations that do not use the call letters as a normal identity brand can place them where they are the least confusing and distracting.

Where calls are useful is in advertising buys as they represent a unique and standardized identifier for over 10,000 commercial stations. But then again, ad agencies in other nations do just fine buying by station name, just as they know the difference between web-based names.

The ID needs to go away. With that said, we have two other cities in our Legal ID. We also ID our translator at the end. Ironically you are only obligated to ID the translator at certain times in the day or you can do a silent FSK (morse code) Id. I wish they would enact that for primary stations.

There is currently a petition for rulmaking to give translators a 4 letter call sign such as WBOB-RX however it is part of other issues in that petitiion.
 
I don’t know, I kind of like to know where the station is licensed, but then I am a radio geek. The general public doesn’t really care!
 
The ID needs to go away. With that said, we have two other cities in our Legal ID. We also ID our translator at the end. Ironically you are only obligated to ID the translator at certain times in the day or you can do a silent FSK (morse code) Id. I wish they would enact that for primary stations.

There is currently a petition for rulmaking to give translators a 4 letter call sign such as WBOB-RX however it is part of other issues in that petitiion.

Call letters are like Social Security.

Hi, I'm 323-44-2211. But you can call me 323!
 
As obsolete is the required "Community of License", formerly known as "City of License".
 
As obsolete is the required "Community of License", formerly known as "City of License".

I've stressed time and time again, what will separate terrestrial radio on an infinite dial IS it's localness. That's why national brand names/formats (K-Love/EMF especially, but also JACK and MOViN) ultimately never made any sense to me on local stations.

Anyone can set up a MP3 jukebox and throw it up on any number of servers out there. What makes RADIO is the local personalities. Local news, local information. Local advertising and sometimes local music. You see, for the homesick former resident or just anyone randomly looking for what life sounds like elsewhere, 24/7 locality says something. It means you're in the air there, aware and everywhere.

If you want a regular jukebox with imaging, listen to one of the zillions of Shoutcast channels out there

And going forward, with climate change and a zillion other things that can happen anywhere, that's an especially important thing to remember. Because you're likely going to be the only official source of news and information as established broadcasters. So that web feed and server capacity are crucially important.

It's a bill and a bitch, I know. But when the greatest (and potentially only) strength you have is your connectivity, use it every way you possibly can.
 
Call letters are like Social Security.

Hi, I'm 323-44-2211. But you can call me 323!

Unless you want to make money or appear to be legitimate in any way. Even many non-radio people are aware of the top of the hour ID (mostly folks, 30+.) But it is an aural separation from your typical whatevercast on internet radio. That has an overlooked strength of it's own.
 
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