KFRC GOING NOWHERE! 1.0 IN THE LATEST BOOK...0.5 IN SAN JOSE!

[LKellerIII]

Its strange how KRTH has Charley Tuna filling in for gary bryan right now.. Charley Tuna has been around when it was Boss radio KHJ,, this just wont fly here, Wow could you imagine KFRC having Bobby ocean or John Mack Flanagan filling in for our morning show? Los Angeles seems to be where CBS puts on the real talent! Personnally ,, Bobby ocean has a much better radio voice than The Duke,, Sholin makes a better pd,, Bobby ocean is funny and entertaining, and John mack has somthing that connects with the listeners ,, i hope you suits at KFRC read these posts,, Im not the least bit immpressed with your line up,, Im really wondering if the bay Area will wever have real radio back? Oh by the way KFRC KRTH seems to have a much more desireable playlist,, CBS ought to turn the KFRC operation over to Bobby and John mack, ratings would soar! Kenny in Concord ,, right now they are playing Incense and peppermints on KRTH,, KFRC do you play this? i doubt it! The time is 9:46 am

Keep in mind that K-Earth has amazing longevity, and has exploited that heritage as a marketing tool. I'd guess that half of their play list hadn't been recorded when the station came on the air. RKO General flipped 101.1 from automated KHJ-FM to Oldies KRTH when I was still living in LA, and I've been in the Bay Area for 35 years. Robert W. Morgan and The Real Don Steele would probably still be working morning and afternoon drive if they hadn't passed away (both from lung cancer). Oddly enought, Charlie Tuna was an exception to that KHJ heritage - I don't think he's been on KRTH until recently.

Since KFRC became an Oldies station, it has paid very little attention to its heritage - Bobby Ocean and Sholin being the exceptions.

 

[scooty430]

Elvis Presley made just of big of an impact on Rock as the Beatles...Elvis Presley for intent and purposes has been dropped from all commercial radio stations in the last 15+ years...Now it's time for the Beatles and 60's Motown to follow the same path..

The issue is the age range of a radio station. In general, oldies / classic hits / classic rock and gold based formats in general try to keep their target age group, and not to age with the audience.

Listeners who like 50's rock 'n roll and early 60's Top 40 hits will be in their mid to late 60's or older, 99.99% of the time. Listeners to mid 60's to early 70's songs will be in their mid-50's to early 60's.

In each case, the bulk of the audience for these two eras of Top 40 songs will be mostly over 55, and there is scant revenue available for such listenership. So, as time goes by, stations that play gold will eliminate each year or two a bunch of the oldest songs and add some ones that are newer. Or, if the station did not regularly do this, they will play catch-up.

Elvis and Chubby Checker and much of the early British Invasion and even early Motown will disappear from stations that want a predominantly under-55 audience except for some speciality shows in low listening dayparts, or on holidays (a discovery due to the PPM) where regular listenership is very, very low.

This is the kind of narrow-minded thinking that makes radio oh so boring and irrelevant. Why do you cling to this notion that people only like the music of their high school/college years?

If that were true, I'd be really into Vanilla Ice, Pet Shop Boys, Bon Jovi, Stone Temple Pilots, gangsta rap, and techno. You know what? - I recognize that period as weak musically, and I know I'm not alone.

Like most people, I sought out music I liked, be it old or new.

And people still get into "old" music.

Have you ever thought of how many young people are watching Three Dog Night or Grease songs being performed on American Idol?

Heard of all the females under 25 into the Beatles? Heck, a 26 year old coworker's favorite artist is Tom Petty. She even went to the Troubadour to see him play a tiny club show.

Or have you noticed that Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, and other crooners are pretty well regarded by people WAY under 65? Been in a bar when "Fly Me To The Moon" comes on?

Noticed that preteens are into the Ramones? Or that every kid in the country knows Smoke On The Water and Black Sabbath riffs from Guitar Hero?

Isn't it a bit of a waste to regard this music as purely nostalgia? Sell it to a new generation, and you've extracted more value.

 

[DavidKaye]

How could any age discriminated, socially eliminated person of experience hope to remain
relevant today? I mean, even with the supportive encouragement from enlightened people like yourself.

Certain jobs have age-related (or sex-related) qualifications.

They won't hire you to train to become a flight controller after you reach age 30. They say that people's reflexes just won't stay fast enough for the duration of employment to make it worth training them.

They won't hire you to work as a dancer in a topless bar if you're male.

They won't hire you to dance at a topless bar even if you're a woman and you're age 60. The establishment knows what the customers want, and for the most part, customers do not want to look at nude 60-year old women (there are exceptions, but that's not where the money is.)

They won't hire you as a DJ on a station appealing to 18 to 34 year olds if you're 60+, and probably not those trying to reach 25 to 49, either. And there's a reason. It has to do with relating to the audience. There are few older people who can appeal to younger audiences. Howard Stern and Alex Bennett are the only ones who come to mind, and I'm not sure Alex works for that demo anymore.

There's a reason Howard Stern still wears that longhaired wig -- if he didn't his publicity photos would likely drive away the audience. Few teens and 20-somethings would want to listen to someone old enough to be their father once it has sunk in that he's really 54 years old. So, by wearing the wig and the shades he's trying to keep people from realizing his age.

You can sob all you want about getting old and unwanted, but open your eyes and realize that we all go that direction. The answer is to look at your options and go where you can make a career for yourself. For many of the golden-voiced DJs that has meant doing voice-over work, books on tape, and narratives.

I deal with a lot of people in their 20s and 30s. I put on weekly live music shows ranging from jazz to oldtime, bluegrass to eastern European folk music, electronica, freejazz, and chamber ensembles. When the performers are in their 20s and 30s the audiences they attract are in their 20s and 30s. Last week we had a singer/songwriter and a country band, all performers in their 40s to 60s. The audience they attracted was also in their 40s to 60s. Tonight (Tuesday) there'll be a rockabilly band and a honky-tonk band. They're in their 20s; their audience will be in their 20s. I guarantee it.

People prefer to be around people their own ages for the most part. This is also true of their choices in DJs for the most part. I happen to love being around people who are in their 20s and 30s, but I don't beg to go to their parties or try to date them. I know that my friendship goes only so far and that for the most part they don't want someone old enough to be their parent hanging around all the time.

Sorry to disappoint you, but that's just the way things are.

 

[DavidKaye]

This is the kind of narrow-minded thinking that makes radio oh so boring and irrelevant. Why do you cling to this notion that people only like the music of their high school/college years?

They "cling" to that notion because it's been proven in real ratings numbers. Nobody who wants to keep a job as a radio programmer is going to turn their back on the evidence just to support some belief not supported by fact. I believe it was either Bill Drake or Gordon McLendon who said that the music people like at age 16 is the music they'll like all their lives. So far I see no reason to not believe this. Sure, there are exceptions. I happen to be one, but I also happen to be a musician, amateur musicologist, and someone who goes out to hear live music 4 or 5 nights a week. I'm unusual. But most people prefer music of their high school era. Period.

If that were true, I'd be really into Vanilla Ice, Pet Shop Boys, Bon Jovi, Stone Temple Pilots, gangsta rap, and techno. You know what? - I recognize that period as weak musically, and I know I'm not alone.
Like most people, I sought out music I liked, be it old or new.

No, you're an exception. I'd like to believe it to be otherwise, since I put on a live weekly show, the Music Box Series at the Climate Theater in San Francisco. http://www.musicboxseries.com

I'd like to expose audiences to new music, music in genres they're not familiar with. That's my goal as a music promoter. But I learned long ago that only a small number of people want to hear it. I could be rich as a promoter and put on only 90s cover bands (because the prime age of club goers is 21 to 35), or I could put on the shows I love (featuring music that most people never grew up with) for no money, but a lot of satisfaction. I choose to do this. So, I know from cold, hard evidence that most people will like only the music they grew up with. I've put on shows for over 7 years in 7 venues. I see the evidence from door receipts.

And people still get into "old" music.

People may get into old music presented a new and fresh way and recorded yesterday.

Have you ever thought of how many young people are watching Three Dog Night or Grease songs being performed on American Idol?

That's my point exactly. They want new, fresh performers doing it, not Three Dog Night.

 

[RadioStarOne]

Welcome to life in the big city radio biz! My how you do run on David Kaye! Or are you really David E in Disguise? Quit being so long on the keyboard! Why can't you all take the time to be brief? Geez its only a radio station and not the only one in the bay area! If they don't turn you on turn them off! I did!

 

[LKellerIII]

Welcome to life in the big city radio biz! My how you do run on David Kaye! Or are you really David E in Disguise? Quit being so long on the keyboard! Why can't you all take the time to be brief? Geez its only a radio station and not the only one in the bay area! If they don't turn you on turn them off! I did!

Speaking for myself...i don't think David Kaye is "so long on the keyboard." I find his posts really interesting, and since I am capable of reading at a reasonable pace (though I'm no speed reader), I don't mind spending the couple of minutes it takes to read his observations.

Let's face it - this board has been lacking in interesting content lately...unless you count the constant complaining about KFRC, and the people who will die if they don't get their Q-102 CHR station.

I sometimes also feel the need to express my thoughts in multiple paragraphs...I figure if people find me boring, they can either skim my posts, or skip them entirely. Of course, they will be missing important educational material gleaned from my superior wisdom.

Feel free to express yourself, Mr. Kaye. And I may check out one of your retro-Polka punk-country-zydeco bands at some point.

 

[SFStatic]

There have been any number of 40 year old morning show hosts on successful stations targeting teens and 18-35 year olds. Also, a fair number of highly rated 60 year olds talking to 25-54 year olds- the so-called "money demo."

While the big bulge of listeners to most music formats does gravitate to the so-called "where were you when you first got laid" era of music, there are significant minorities (20-30% in some cases I've seen) who were way younger than the music they were listening to-music of their parents in a lot of cases. (What about Classical, where the music is 300 years older than ANY listener? A niche format, but still...)

Sometimes we are a little too quick to generalize.

 

[DavidKaye]

Welcome to life in the big city radio biz! My how you do run on David Kaye! Or are you really David E in Disguise?

Nope. He and I are different people. I have followed his posts since the day of FidoNet, however. The guy knows what he's talking about. He's built (literally built) radio stations and programmed them and sold time on them and managed them. He's done more in more phases of radio than anyone else here. And one of his SF stations is the #1 music station, so I guess he knows what he's doing.

Quit being so long on the keyboard! Why can't you all take the time to be brief? Geez its only a radio station and not the only one in the bay area! If they don't turn you on turn them off! I did!

Oh, I guess I sometimes get wrapped up in things. I don't spend that much time writing, though, which is why you see so many typos and incomprehensible sentences from me. Editing is for wimps.