KLOS - The King of all A to Zs??

[scooty430]

Among the first to do a big A to Z that includes rarely heard songs, KLOS just wrapped up this year's presentation, which had 2574 songs, and took 2 weeks to complete.

CBS-FM in New York made a big splash with their own A to Z, and that contained 2430 songs. Moreover, KLOS played quite a few looong songs, such as Echoes, In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, and pretty much the entire Zeppelin catalog, I guess this makes them the reigning champs of A to Z.

(Not that it really matters - just fun to discuss...)

Of course, none compare to XM's discontinued "IT" feature: over 10,000 songs from the 1920s to the present.

 

[LasVegasRadioJunky]

I encourage everyone with knowledge of the impact these "A to Z" stunts have on Arbitron ratings to chime in with some facts. I think these features do more for "variety" brand image than anything else, but would like to learn more about ratings ramifications.

 

[davideduardo]

I encourage everyone with knowledge of the impact these "A to Z" stunts have on Arbitron ratings to chime in with some facts. I think these features do more for "variety" brand image than anything else, but would like to learn more about ratings ramifications.

It's a new world with PPM.

Specialty shows, features and special programming were benchmarks in the diary, and helped people remember what they listened to.

In the PPM, the situation is less well defined. Such shows and features that depart from what the listener expects may have the same effect as a bad song: disappointment, tune out, tarnishing of image. In the case that there is total congruency with the listener expectations and a perceived value, there is a positive effect which means return visits.

A lot of diary techniques came after years of Arbitron diary measurement. We are only at the beginning of PPM, and how it works with different formats and demos is still poorly defined.

 

[jrplbg]

Overall, I enjoyed the big A to Z programming on KLOS. I heard many songs I heard for the first time as a fan of AOR when I was a kid that I haven't really heard since then. (And to hear YYZ by Rush played in its entirety instead of as a bumper on a talk show was nice.)

However, that said, about every other or third song while I was listening was just something I wasn't interested in and didn't want to hear, so I tuned out. Also, I can only imagine how many songs I missed I might have wanted to hear. There's a reason stations wait until the nether world of the end of the year (and the beginning of the next) to have these specials.

 

[jrplbg]

Something interesting that struck me during all this, and I assume this is the result of living in our new PPM world, is that I heard four (and it might have been five) songs in a row on KLOS with no ID and no imaging at all between them. For at least four songs, no notification that I was listening to KLOS.

Without the need of "aiding listener recall," this definitely sets up for long sets of uninterrupted music. But is it a good idea for radio to attempt to compete with iPods by becoming an iPod the listener has no control over? I don't think so.

Now that station imaging is free to do something other than pound an imaging line into our heads so we'll write it down in a diary, it's time for smart programmers to figure out what else it can do. Radio is not a iPod. It'll never beat them on iPod's terms. It has to be something different.

 

[Greg Strickland]

WRNR, serving the Annapolis MD market did an A to Z recently that was probably about two weeks long.

 

[davideduardo]

There's a reason stations wait until the nether world of the end of the year (and the beginning of the next) to have these specials.

We are in PPM measurement every day, includin ghte holiday season; even then, the "Holiday" book from mid December to early January is long over and we have been in the January book since last week Thursday.

 

[Dr. o Fun]

...I guess this makes them the reigning champs of A to Z.

I never really cared for A to Z programming with the exception of trying to guess the next song before it's played.

Good to hear KLOS pulled out some of the rare tracks. I would have loved to have heard Echoes.

dr

 

[oldies76]

Moreover, KLOS played quite a few looong songs, such as Echoes, In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, and pretty much the entire Zeppelin catalog, I guess this makes them the reigning champs of A to Z.

Did they play "Child in Time" By Deep Purple, at just over 10 minutes long? Great to see more and more stations doing this specialty of A to Z.

 

[radioresearcher]

Moreover, KLOS played quite a few looong songs, such as Echoes, In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, and pretty much the entire Zeppelin catalog, I guess this makes them the reigning champs of A to Z.

Did they play "Child in Time" By Deep Purple, at just over 10 minutes long? Great to see more and more stations doing this specialty of A to Z.

David is right that this is all new. Christmas got mixed results in the meter this year. KOST did very well, but it was far from a home run for everyone. Lack of familiarity can kill you too. This should actually be interesting to see how A to Z does for KLOS.

Cume is obviously a major thing in PPM but familiarity is crucial. Bad songs on some stations are the primary reason for tuneout. That can be poorly testing songs or UNFAMILIAR.

I believe both are the reason Indie has done poorly.

 

[scooty430]

Moreover, KLOS played quite a few looong songs, such as Echoes, In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, and pretty much the entire Zeppelin catalog, I guess this makes them the reigning champs of A to Z.

Did they play "Child in Time" By Deep Purple, at just over 10 minutes long? Great to see more and more stations doing this specialty of A to Z.

Yup. Child In Time was on there.

Also some super long songs by Dire Straits (Telegraph Road, Romeo and Juliet), Xanadu and 2112 by Rush, and all the long songs from Floyd's Animals (Pigs, Dogs, and Sheep)

 

[scooty430]

Something interesting that struck me during all this, and I assume this is the result of living in our new PPM world, is that I heard four (and it might have been five) songs in a row on KLOS with no ID and no imaging at all between them. For at least four songs, no notification that I was listening to KLOS.

Without the need of "aiding listener recall," this definitely sets up for long sets of uninterrupted music. But is it a good idea for radio to attempt to compete with iPods by becoming an iPod the listener has no control over? I don't think so.

Now that station imaging is free to do something other than pound an imaging line into our heads so we'll write it down in a diary, it's time for smart programmers to figure out what else it can do. Radio is not a iPod. It'll never beat them on iPod's terms. It has to be something different.

KLOS has been doing the A to Z for a number of years (they may have been one of the first), and the first few years I tuned in, it was VERY difficult to listen to, because after every single song, you were subjected to very annoying "KLOS noise." (The company that supplies their sound effects and 'jingles' actually calls their product "noise," LOL!)

I love the way the A to Z sounded this year, with songs just blending into each other. This is how AOR radio used to sound! Unfortunately, they still use some of those annoying bumpers, but they are much shorter and only happen every few songs. The jocks were giving some good background info, too.

Now if only they could make KLOS interesting the rest of the year, because I must say the moment their A to Z ends each year, I turn them off until next Christmas.

 

[davideduardo]

I love the way the A to Z sounded this year, with songs just blending into each other. This is how AOR radio used to sound!

Yes, those stations sounded that way before they a) had ratings and b) made any money and, mostly, c) before Lee Abrams and SuperStars blew the zero-formatics stations away.

Unfortunately, they still use some of those annoying bumpers, but they are much shorter and only happen every few songs.

Those sweepers are necessary so the average person knows where to find the station the next time. Your idea is the same as having the LA Times print no masthead and no name on every page.

 

[SDRadio]

Those sweepers are necessary so the average person knows where to find the station the next time. Your idea is the same as having the LA Times print no masthead and no name on every page.

You'll give the new brain trust a new cost cutting measure. Masthead? They don't need no stinkin' masthead!

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I'm not sure the masthead is all that relevant anyway. The LA Times changed theirs not long ago.

Didn't stop me from cancelling!

 

[oldies76]

Those sweepers are necessary so the average person knows where to find the station the next time. Your idea is the same as having the LA Times print no masthead and no name on every page.

Why would you put the L.A. Times name on every page? It's all one newspaper and it would be overkill. No need to have a bumper or jingles after every song either. The average person can't be that unfamiliar with their own favorite radio stations.

 

[davideduardo]

Why would you put the L.A. Times name on every page? It's all one newspaper and it would be overkill. No need to have a bumper or jingles after every song either. The average person can't be that unfamiliar with their own favorite radio stations.

Papers, magazines and books all put the name on each page.

Branding is the first step of marketing

The average person listens to 7 to 8 radio stations.

You just don't get it.

 

[scooty430]

I love the way the A to Z sounded this year, with songs just blending into each other. This is how AOR radio used to sound!

Yes, those stations sounded that way before they a) had ratings and b) made any money and, mostly, c) before Lee Abrams and SuperStars blew the zero-formatics stations away.

Unfortunately, they still use some of those annoying bumpers, but they are much shorter and only happen every few songs.

Those sweepers are necessary so the average person knows where to find the station the next time. Your idea is the same as having the LA Times print no masthead and no name on every page.

I don't mind jingles and station IDs at all, actually. K-Earth's, for example, add something to the listening and sound nostalgic. KROQ used to have very inventive IDs. And before they went alternative, WBCN in Boston had absolutely beloved bumpers and collages.

What I don't like about the KLOS IDs and bumpers is the way they sound. They are hideous. Obnoxious. Loud. Irritating. Lots of random clashes, clangs, buzzes, pops, sound effects and doofuses yelling. Does ANYONE enjoy hearing that? If so, they are either 12 years old or need professional help.

Also don't like IDs after EVERY song, though it works on Oldies. Every second or third seems OK to me for Progressive, rock, AOR, etc.

And.... you're wrong about AOR's history of promos and bumpers. I have the airchecks to prove it. Can't give you a date it changed, but definitely in the 80s and 90s, songs bled into each other, and they did not ID the station after EVERY song. And yes, they had HUGE ratings with that too. I've got tapes (and was there too) of WCOZ in Boston, WBCN in Boston, and WAAF in Boston, all of which were very successful AORs in the late 70s and early 80s. Also have tapes of KLOS and KLSX where they were not doing all those IDs - 80s and even 90s.

 

[Dr. o Fun]

Those sweepers are necessary so the average person knows where to find the station the next time. Your idea is the same as having the LA Times print no masthead and no name on every page.

What's the difference between a pre-produced brand and a live jock brand? Why can't the jock just crack the mic and say "KLOS/Los Angeles" instead of playing some, as scooty430 put it, "hideous, obnoxious, loud, irritating, lots of random clashes, clangs, buzzes, pops, sound effects and doofuses yelling" I.D.

I wonder what KLOS (and other CR stations) would sound like if they stripped all of their sweepers and actually used their jocks live voice to deliver the same verbiage. Kinda reminds me of the glory days of KGB-FM. Just typing out loud...

dr

 

[Zeb Norris]

Re: KILOS - The King of all A to Zs??

You just don't get it.

Yeah, you don't get it... and get the hell offa my lawn!

What's the difference between a pre-produced brand and a live jock brand? Why can't the jock just crack the mic and say "KLOS/Los Angeles" instead of playing some, as scooty430 put it, "hideous, obnoxious, loud, irritating, lots of random clashes, clangs, buzzes, pops, sound effects and doofuses yelling" I.D.

I wonder what KLOS (and other CR stations) would sound like if they stripped all of their sweepers and actually used their jocks live voice to deliver the same verbiage. Kinda reminds me of the glory days of KGB-FM. Just typing out loud...

dr

This is correct. For many many years AOR stations didn't ID in a set. Sets ranged from 3 to 5 songs. Sometimes more. And it worked.

When I was at KTYD Santa Barbara in the late 70's we ran what we called "An Hour of Uninterrupted Music". And that's what it was. All segues, no IDs. I personally had a 35 share in the demo; 18 to 34.

To be fair to D.E., this was mostly before the 80/90 docket, when there were fewer stations in most markets. But with PPM, the device knows what the station is with or without IDs. So the purpose of the ID is no longer to aid recall, just to teach the listener what and where the station is so they can come back later.

BTW, I wouldn't hold any newspaper up as a marvel of successful branding. More and more, only the guys who want you off their lawns read the print editions. While these are tough times for radio, they're way worse for newspapers. Just sayin'.