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KMCQ files Minor Change for Cougar & KAFE, Bellingham files for 104.1 Mhz

semoochie said:
They can't test from the Cougar site without authorization.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and you can't drive over 60 on the freeway either. Yet, I once saw somebody doing it a couple of years ago.

It's not like they'd be the first to cheat the FCC to save a few dollars. There are stations in this market doing it right now, but I'm not going to name names.

But I really, truly want to know where they're actually testing from. Considering the amount of money it takes to establish a transmitter site, it's worth asking whether they're using a brand new installation in the hills above Enumclaw, or merely using lower power on one of the aux transmitters at Cougar for a few tests the seem like they're coming from the authorized place. It's not like anybody would be able to prove anything.

I just really want to know.


- Knobbly
 
They have to send in the results of the test. There are measurements to take from various locations within a certain distance of the antenna in multiple directions. If the test results didn't relate to the correct antenna location, they would fail the test and probably lose their license for that station and any others they may have for lack of candor!
 
And the FCC field office (Kirkland) has RDF equipment to locate direction of signals. Not a wise choice to fudge something like transmitter location. As a station undergoing a facility change you can bet they're "on the radar" at the moment.
 
I was going to let the snowballing ignorance of these posts run their course and just walk away, but I really have to do some education here.

People are lying to the FCC right now in this town at real radio stations. It happens all the time. Nobody goes to prison for that. It's a nice white collar crime done by nice white people for their nice white corporate bosses.

The reason somebody might make tests from a site that isn't the one they have a CP for is to find out what the coverage will be like from the other site at a given power level. And if they aren't really planning to operate from the CP site anyway, there's no good reason to run the tests from there, considering that it costs money to build the transmitter site, and money is what this business is all about.

We know there are tuneable transmitters attached to wideband antennas on Cougar Mountain that are strictly backups for the main rig on Tiger Mountain. It would be fairly minor to power one of these up to any reduced power level and run a few discrete tests in the dark of the night.

I'm not saying this is what is happening with KMCQ. I'm just saying that it could happen, and I would really like to know if it is. Apparently everybody here knows even less about this than I do, which is really sad for all concerned.

And just to make it very clear. The KMCQ tests on 104.5 are not being done for the FCC. These are being done for corporate powers. The FCC has no requirements for field intensity measurements for non-directional FM stations. This information is not going to be filed with the FCC. It's going to Texas.

A simple "I don't know what the Hell I'm talking about, but here's my opinion from years of owning a CB set" would go a long way on this forum.

For those who believe the FCC is up at midnight waiting to catch a licensed broadcaster doing something marginally illegal, let me assure you that you're more likely to find the boogy man under your bed. The FCC doesn't have the manpower for this kind of craziness. Even if they caught somebody doing a semi-legal test, there's almost no chance that there is actually going to be enforcement action. It's not the kind of ongoing interference that annoys people enough to bother the FCC. And the FCC almost never swings into action unless there is a legitimate complaint filed for something that actually causes a problem and they figure they can win a conviction if it goes to court.

Thanks to 20 years of budget cuts, the FCC is a toothless old hound that will occasionally crap all over your carpet if you really annoy it. Nobody's going to prison for questionable engineering practices while working for a corporate broadcaster. But they will fine the Hell out of you if you really tick them off.

Call me crazy, but I really would like to know whether the KMCQ tests are originating from the Enumclaw site or from Cougar, FROM SOMEBODY WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS.

Testing, 1 2 3, good buddy. Is this thing on?
 
Shiny Knob said:
Call me crazy, but I really would like to know whether the KMCQ tests are originating from the Enumclaw site or from Cougar, FROM SOMEBODY WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS.

Testing, 1 2 3, good buddy. Is this thing on?
Click to expand...

C'mon, don't be naive. You're not going to get the answer on this message board.

If you really want to get an answer - go make nice nice with one of the local engineers. Preferably one that does RF work. They're a pretty close-knit group, and I know from experience - there's no secrets.
 
Shiny Knob said:
Call me crazy, but I really would like to know whether the KMCQ tests are originating from the Enumclaw site or from Cougar, FROM SOMEBODY WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS.
Click to expand...

SBE Chapter 16, I believe, is a great resource for this. ClayF is usually on top of what's happening in this market. They have a website ... don't remember the addy but you're a google away. That will give you some contacts who can point you in the right, credible direction. Good luck. If you get some interesting (and accurate) info I'm sure many of us would be curious here too!
 
Hey Knob, it’s obvious that you have no engineering skills. Driving on the FM highway 5% over modulation is one thing. Yea some stations do that. Public file violations are a given.

But you have no idea what it takes to make one of those wideband antenna systems works. You just don’t simply plug in transmitters. You need filters, stations need to be combined in a sequence to get to the antenna. Yes the transmitter might be easy to change frequency. But the combiner system for the master antenna is not so easily changed.

You simply can’t change the antenna combiner over night to accommodate a secrete one or two hour test and then change it back. That would cost several thousands of dollars and require the backup plant to be off line for a day swapping filters in the combiner.

Also what station in their right mind would take their backup transmitter off line and risk their own license to do this. Not to mention the rest of the cluster of stations that the license has in the market. And if you think its some sneaky engineer, think again. Like I said retuning the antenna combiner is a huge job. It’s just not twisting a couple of dials.

The only station that is close to 104.5 is 103.7. And that backup plant is run by Clay Frienwald. And I know Clay does not play those games. Plus that antenna is directional.

Also there are several signals coming off of cougar at various power levels that could compare to what 104.5 would cover form Cougar. KCMS, KNHC and KWRM all run at less than 100kw erp. KNHC actually runs at 8.5KW erp, I would just compare that signal to what you might expect from 104.5. But it is directional.

The only master antenna on Cougar that is not directional is the one KPLZ, KUBE, KCMS, and KJR use. Just ask KCMS to drop to 8.1KW erp and you will know how 104.5 would play from that antenna. No need to actually retune anything to 104.5

Are you implying that 104.5 already built their plant on Cougar? Broadcasting from the tower in their CP modification to transmit from Cougar? A simple road trip to the hill would answer that. I don’t think they are that stupid. Other engineers in the market would not stand for that, let alone the consulting engineer. It would take very little effort for the FCC to drive up to Cougar to verify. The antenna hanging off the tower would be a dead give away.

It is real simple to move a two to four bay antenna and a small transmitter in a trailer anywhere you want. No need to retune a master antenna for an illegal test. The only cost would be the tower crew and engineer to unhook and re hook things. That would cost far less than getting the parts to modify a master antenna for an illegal test.

If I was the engineer for 104.5 and wanted to know how a non directional signal at 8.1 KW erp played off of Cougar I would ask KCMS to run at 8.1KW erp for a couple of hours at midnight, or just compare KNHC knowing that the signal to the south would be slightly better being non directional.

Here is the link to the SBE chapter 16 site. Email Clay yourself and ask him.
http://www.sbe16.org/

I hope I have made my point. Shiney Knob, you have no engineering skills.
Spend less time making that Knob Shiney and more time making the Knob knowledgeable before you speak. Owning a CB qualifies you for nothing in my book.
 
Based upon signal observations, made near Enumclaw, I would have to say that they have indeed run tests from the above board facility.

Side note: For those interested in some DX, If you park on the east side of Enumclaw, you get a full signal from Mix 104.5 (old kmcq) in the Dalles. This being the old KMCQ station, I mistook it as a brief test from the new site. At this time, they hadn't started testing here. The spots for local businesses in the Dalles gave further evidence of DX reception. Driving toward the new site, the signal faded back into reception of KMIH.
 
I gotta say this, I have this strange feeling in the air tonight that KIRO 104.5 will soon be on its way to town. Bonneville wants it more than a steak dinner at to a homeless person.
 
Has about herd about 104.1 FM?

CTRC has open up the frequency for Vancouver?

What will happend to 104.1 in Bellingham?
 
Yep. Saw that on another broadcaster board today. I love it. More pain and suffering for First Broadcasting. Those BC apps came in BEFORE the Cougar app. Everybody should call up the CBC and CRTC and tell them to hold tight and fast as this is going to be a cross-border battle royal like none other. I thought they could simply move to 104.3 as KAFE moves to 104.1, but somebody said that another station in Vancouver is in the way. Maybe one our engineers on this board can see about this. I know the rules are different between Canadian allotments vs. coss-border allotments.

The fun continues!
 
If this goes the way First doesn't want it to go, and this unnamed radio group in Vancouver ultimately gets their way.... KMCQ would be stuck in Enumclaw for years and years to come, after all that time trying to get to Cougar Mountain. All that money, time, and energy spent, down the toilet. If that happens, anyone think they could still sell the station, even though it might not be worth as much?
 
Whats wrong with enumclaw? They have a famous race car driver, and an even more famous horse. I'll tell you something, that horse put enumclaw on the map more then any race car driver ever has. They should name a street after it, they already have the statue.

Bullseye drive south.
 
Nice catch Stephen and FM Steve...

You guys are right on and First has to be a bit nervous in Dallas because unlike the FCC, Canada isn;t going to be bought nor are they going to roll over and play dead. They have a history of preference to one: support local radio over out-of-town shoo-ins and 2: Absolutely throw out most of the U.S. border crossovers that try and muck up the channels to the north.

Unless First has got a high paying insider in Ottawa and at the same time can work a deal that will please the Vancouver group, this deal's headed for dark waters.

Enumclaw can be sold, but we're talking major discount points now.....something the investors aren't going to be so pleased with. I also heard from a good engineer friend that this particular site is very primitive. There's little support for an on-going 24/7 operation and accessibility is even worse particularly come November.

It ain't over yet though....this story seems to have a life and then some! I guess we'll all just have to keep listening and stay tuned.....
 
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