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KQV / KYW / KDKA - Why "K" Stations East Of Miss. River?

Maybe this is for another forum room but you all seem like you know a lot about radio - was wondering why KQV/ KYW / KDKA are K-stations (vs. W-stations) especially since they are east of misis.-river.

I had heard KDKA is so old that they got there station call assignment before the east-west W vs. K station miss.-river policy.

I guess the same question applies for W-stations west of Miss-river (e.g. WBAP, etc.).

cheers :)
 
you pretty much answered you own question.
KQV and KYW just like KDKA got their licenses before the W or K assignment had come about.
(I could be wrong there)

Stations West Of the Mississippi with W call signs signed on when the W call sign used to go a little west of the Mississippi WBAP, WACO-FM, ect.
 
Stormy01 -

Thanks - very good source. This material is almost approached in a scholary manner in the level of detail it provides - excellent!!

:)
 
Yes, that's a really good analysis. I'd like to see one for FM as well.

Offhand I can think of these current examples of "W" FM calls west of the Mississippi: WDAY-FM Fargo ND, WNAX-FM Yankton SD, WIBW-FM Topeka KS, WLTE Minneapolis, WWLS-FM The Village OK, and two in Texas, WACO-FM Waco and WRR Dallas. There may be others west of the Mississippi in Louisiana and Minnesota as well, not to mention translators with W calls.

Note that WWLS (AM) was formerly WNAD Norman OK; it moved to Moore and rather recently later picked up the FM licensed to The Village. WACO-FM and WRR haven't had a companion AM for years, and I don't know why "WACO-100" hasn't dropped the "FM" suffix like WRR.
 
JD -- I remember reading a few scattered blurbs about the ' - FM ' suffix being an unavoidable birth mark at station ID time once it was issued to your facility as such. Then, there recently has been the practice of stowing heritage calls on other stations owned by the same company, if they'd ever need retrieval for renaissance purposes on the larger stations. I believe any '- FM' suffix is permanent, and travels with the calls in such instances.

* * * * *

A station on Long Island was issued K- calls about a year ago. Last I'd read, the FCC realized they'd made an oversight and changed their minds about issuing them. Perhaps this typo slipped through the cracks because of the New York City FM that called itself K-Rock for years. Plus, for an even longer duration, a station which is now well-situated in the Long Island ratings has been known as K-Joy. Both, of course, have different legal call signs from their imagers -- WXRK and WKJY, respectively.

* * * * *

Cool to note that good ol' Pennsylvania is the only state completely east of the Mississippi to have THREE stations with 'K' calls. The map even situates the den here pretty well. We're just about at the convergence of all the lines in the letter 'Y' in the KYW graphic :)
 
There is a more recent exception. Earlier this year WGCQ in Ripley, TN moved its tower to Hayti, MO and at least at the present time still has the same call letters.
 
Steve Green NEPA said:
I believe any '- FM' suffix is permanent, and travels with the calls in such instances.

No, that's not the case. Some examples here in Texas are KLUV Dallas and KVIL Highland Park-Dallas, both of whom dropped the -FM suffix in 2006 and KODA Houston which changed from KODA-FM back in 1980. There are many other similar situations around the country.
 
On the flip side of that coin, you have stations like KBXX and KKBQ here in Houston which both use the FM suffix, when the AM counter part is long gone. In the case of KBXX, I can't seem to recall there ever being a KBXX on the AM dial, the previous calls on 97.9 of KFMK did not have the FM suffix, so I'm not sure why it was added there. KKBQ still ID's as KKBQ-FM/Pasadena-Houston even though the AM counterpart at 790 hasn't been KKBQ for about a decade now.

Speaking of old W calls west of the Miss, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned WKY in Okla. City. 930 is one of the oldest AM's on this side of the big river.
 
jd said:
Offhand I can think of these current examples of "W" FM calls west of the Mississippi: WDAY-FM Fargo ND, WNAX-FM Yankton SD, WIBW-FM Topeka KS, WLTE Minneapolis, WWLS-FM The Village OK, and two in Texas, WACO-FM Waco and WRR Dallas. There may be others west of the Mississippi in Louisiana and Minnesota as well, not to mention translators with W calls.

Note that WWLS (AM) was formerly WNAD Norman OK; it moved to Moore and rather recently later picked up the FM licensed to The Village. WACO-FM and WRR haven't had a companion AM for years, and I don't know why "WACO-100" hasn't dropped the "FM" suffix like WRR.
Can't forget one of the best known W's from the west...WOAI 1200 San Antonio. Not as strong as WBAP in is here in Indiana, but still respectable.
 
BobOnTheJob said:
Can't forget one of the best known W's from the west...WOAI 1200 San Antonio.

According to old Broadcasting Yearbooks, WOAI was the last U.S. Clear to have another station share its frequency.
 
jd said:
Yes, that's a really good analysis. I'd like to see one for FM as well.

Offhand I can think of these current examples of "W" FM calls west of the Mississippi: WDAY-FM Fargo ND, WNAX-FM Yankton SD, WIBW-FM Topeka KS, WLTE Minneapolis, WWLS-FM The Village OK, and two in Texas, WACO-FM Waco and WRR Dallas. There may be others west of the Mississippi in Louisiana and Minnesota as well, not to mention translators with W calls.

Note that WWLS (AM) was formerly WNAD Norman OK; it moved to Moore and rather recently later picked up the FM licensed to The Village. WACO-FM and WRR haven't had a companion AM for years, and I don't know why "WACO-100" hasn't dropped the "FM" suffix like WRR.

Since the K/W policies were firmed up well before FM came along, all "wrong-side FMs" come from one of four places:

- FM affiliates of "wrong-side AMs"
(this accounts for the vast majority of cases, including all the ones you mention above except WLTE)

- City lies on both sides of the river. (Minneapolis, New Orleans)
(the center of Minneapolis lies west -- actually south -- of the Mississippi, but part of the city is east/north, and so is the WLTE transmitter)

- Station moved across the river. (Memphis, St. Louis)

- FCC screwed up. (WGCQ)

_________________________________________________
purpledevil said:
On the flip side of that coin, you have stations like KBXX and KKBQ here in Houston which both use the FM suffix, when the AM counter part is long gone. In the case of KBXX, I can't seem to recall there ever being a KBXX on the AM dial, the previous calls on 97.9 of KFMK did not have the FM suffix, so I'm not sure why it was added there. KKBQ still ID's as KKBQ-FM/Pasadena-Houston even though the AM counterpart at 790 hasn't been KKBQ for about a decade now.

The -FM suffix is required if the same calls exist without a suffix on another service. So if there's a KKBQ on 790 AM, and you want to use KKBQ on FM, you must use the -FM suffix. The official calls are KKBQ-FM as you note.

If you then change the AM station to something else, the FM does NOT lose the -FM suffix. It remains KKBQ-FM. If you want to drop the -FM suffix, you have to file the appropriate paperwork (and pay the filing fee) to change calls.

The -FM suffix is optional if there is no call without a suffix on another service. If there is no KKBQ on AM, then your FM station can have either KKBQ or KKBQ-FM. Your choice. But whichever one you choose, that appears on your license, and that's how you're required to identify.

It is not unheardof for a station that doesn't officially have a -FM suffix to use that suffix anyway in its legal ID -- to identify as "KKBQ-FM Houston" even though their calls are officially just "KKBQ". Arguably that's not legal, though I've never heard of anyone being cited for it. (and arguably, "FM" is an acceptable insertion. You can insert your frequency in your ID, and arguably your frequency is "FM" -- the rules don't say how specific you have to be!)
 
A few years ago KBUD signed on in Sardis, MS. This same topic came up then.


Stations moved across the river could include KJMS Olive Branch. It originally was located just across the river from Memphis.

WWUN changed its license from Clarksdale to Friars Point MS but moved its Tower to Arkansas.
 
Has anyone mentioned KTGG-AM1540 in Spring Arbor, Michigan?
 
KR4BD said:
Has anyone mentioned KTGG-AM1540 in Spring Arbor, Michigan?

No, but it's on the map included on the link that stormy01 posted earlier. The station has a CP to change COL northward to Okemos MI (suburban Lansing); it's been on the air with those call letters since 1984. Clearly a case of one of w9wi's conclusions ("-FCC screwed up").
 
Re: K callsign recently granted in Long Island, New York to a religious station.

Nick said:
There was a K callsign recently granted in Long Island, New York to a religious station.

http://www.allaccess.com/net-news/archive/story/49274/east-coast-station-west-coast-calls?ref=search

fcc.gov shows that WEER is currently a construction permit for 90.7 and an application for 94.9. There is no "KCBE" as mentioned
in the allaccess.com article in the FCC database... The FCC must have since "taken back" the erroneous call letters...
 
Michael said:
A few years ago KBUD signed on in Sardis, MS. This same topic came up then.


Stations moved across the river could include KJMS Olive Branch. It originally was located just across the river from Memphis.

WWUN changed its license from Clarksdale to Friars Point MS but moved its Tower to Arkansas.

I'd think that WGCQ would also count as a moving across the river situation. Although it was a short transition time between the call letter change from WKVZ in Ripley, TN and the time it moved across the river to Hayti, MO, the call letter change came while the station was still in Ripley.

In the Memphis area at least one station changed from a K to a W station when it moved across the river. KPYR 98.1 was in Osceola, AR but moved to Millington, TN and changed its call letters to WPYR. It is currently WXMX.
 
Re: K callsign recently granted in Long Island, New York to a religious station.

stormy01 said:
The FCC must have since "taken back" the erroneous call letters...

That appears to be the case. The article was from November '08 and "KCBE" doesn't show up anywhere in the archived records, so it looks like it never "officially" happened. The call letters for the station in question are WEGB.
 
Driving through Wisconsin a couple of summers ago... I was amazed to hear a "K" station in that state, not exactly located along the Mississippi River: KFIZ in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin.

On top of that, it's a 1,000-watter on a local, "graveyard" channel: 1450 kHz.

I found that very interesting because most of the big AM's with K call letters far east of the Mississippi River, or W call letters far west of the Mississippi, are big, 50,000-watt, "heritage stations" (KYW, KDKA, WBAP), or at least, 5,000-watt, regional-channel stations (KQV).

So does anyone know the story of KFIZ AM 1450?
 
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