KUIL-LD fires up and is on the air...on 36!?! but licensed for 52???

[CW]

FOX 64 KUIL-LP evidently has their LP Digital (LD) on the air..It can see in Groves quite well. They have HD on main channel 36-1 (720p) and Std Def on 36-2 (480i). The TV shows it to be channel 36 but they are not licensed on there. They ARE licensed on 52 out of Orangefield (the analog 64 is on Hilldebrandt Rd's tower).....so they could be sending the wrong info or the FCC database is wrong?? Either way, depending on where you are, if you have rabbit ears or outside antenna, you can see FOX 64 NOW in High Def!! Just have the TV scan for a new digital channel and it should find it (if you have an outside antenna, point it toward Vidor or a little east of there for the other digitals are in Vidor 4-1, 6-1 and 12-1...all on UHF channels..it took using a Channel Master 7777 AMP at the antenna to be able to see 4-1 digital....and then got extra channels..like 22 in Beaumont and 66 as well as 69 in Vidor and NOW 36-1 HD and 36-2 SD..Cool, we can watch FOX Super Bowl football in HD!

 

[w9wi]

FOX 64 KUIL-LP evidently has their LP Digital (LD) on the air..It can see in Groves quite well. They have HD on main channel 36-1 (720p) and Std Def on 36-2 (480i). The TV shows it to be channel 36 but they are not licensed on there. They ARE licensed on 52 out of Orangefield (the analog 64 is on Hilldebrandt Rd's tower).....so they could be sending the wrong info or the FCC database is wrong??

Channel 52 is an analog station. 36 is K36ID-D, authorized to transmit from the same tower as channel 52. (and both 36 and 52 are co-owned with KUIL-LP. KUIL itself has no authorized digital facility.)

I gather then that there is no signal on channel 52? (if there is, is it relaying KUIL?)

 

[CW]

FOX 64 KUIL-LP evidently has their LP Digital (LD) on the air..It can see in Groves quite well. They have HD on main channel 36-1 (720p) and Std Def on 36-2 (480i). The TV shows it to be channel 36 but they are not licensed on there. They ARE licensed on 52 out of Orangefield (the analog 64 is on Hilldebrandt Rd's tower).....so they could be sending the wrong info or the FCC database is wrong??

Channel 52 is an analog station. 36 is K36ID-D, authorized to transmit from the same tower as channel 52. (and both 36 and 52 are co-owned with KUIL-LP. KUIL itself has no authorized digital facility.)

I gather then that there is no signal on channel 52? (if there is, is it relaying KUIL?)

I looked at the FCC data base and could not find anything on 36. Did a search of LP/translator licensed to Texas and never saw K36ID and that was yesterday! Today, I went and did a callsign search using K36ID and it popped up (Never trust the other search thats for sure)..36 is carrying the 64 programming and IDing its self as FOX 64. I wondered about 52 anyway since it will be outside the core 2-51 range and would have to go away anyway. Funny, it shows 52 LICENSED...thus should be built out..but its not. Its never been on the air.

 

[JoesBros81]

Im guessing you must have a pretty strong anttena even to pick up channel 22

 

[CW]

Im guessing you must have a pretty strong anttena even to pick up channel 22

That and a very good amplifier Try the Channel Master 7777...you can get it at Ralph's Electronics....I found you can run it off a Sat rcvr dish voltage (it likes the higher LNB voltage for best gain) if you diplex everything in on one line, but I dont get 22 all the time...I get 55 out of Splendora better and the antenna is not even looking at 55.

 

[dhett]

The FCC database designates K36ID-D is the digital companion channel to K52IS, not KUIL-LP, and there is no KUIL-LD. KUIL-LP, K52IS and K36ID-D are all owned by Blue Bonnet Communications, so it's possible that K52IS was to be a repeater of KUIL-LP, and with K36ID-D up and running, K52IS might magically disappear.

 

[CW]

The FCC database designates K36ID-D is the digital companion channel to K52IS, not KUIL-LP, and there is no KUIL-LD. KUIL-LP, K52IS and K36ID-D are all owned by Blue Bonnet Communications, so it's possible that K52IS was to be a repeater of KUIL-LP, and with K36ID-D up and running, K52IS might magically disappear.

With the core channels staying 2-51, 52 would have to go away anyway...I bet they got 52 and then realized OOPS...and then got 36 (just last year).....well it sure looks nice. 720p HD...watched the Packers-Lions game in HD today...but when they have LOCAL programming on, they do not switch to 4x3 format...it stays 16x9...confusing a little but when HD is there, you can really see it...I sent an email to one of the guys at FOX29 to see what the official word is...In fact, they probably wont reset the PSIP to 64.1 as 64 will be going away...so they will likely leave the PSIP as 36.x and thats that. BUT funny thing is, when they get their full power digital 30 to the 29tower, they wont need D 36...30 will have better range and completely envelope 36's coverage area (easily). Maybe this is a way to keep 29 on until the last minute then move D 30 out to the 1500ft Edgerly tower after analog sunset??? (D 30 is on at the studios in LCH)

 

[dhett]

The FCC database designates K36ID-D is the digital companion channel to K52IS, not KUIL-LP, and there is no KUIL-LD. KUIL-LP, K52IS and K36ID-D are all owned by Blue Bonnet Communications, so it's possible that K52IS was to be a repeater of KUIL-LP, and with K36ID-D up and running, K52IS might magically disappear.

With the core channels staying 2-51, 52 would have to go away anyway...

Nope. Not for LPTV stations. Because they're a secondary service, they can continue to use chs 52 - 59 as long as they don't cause interference to any primary services in that band. They also must accept any interference from primary services. The exception in LPTV is Class A stations, which must be in-core. Now it's likely with the Beaumont area being populated, there might already be a primary service on planned on ch 52 or 53 making LPTV operation on ch 52 impossible, or at least undesirable, but that band is available. Chs 60 - 69, however, are not available to any TV service.

Full-service stations, however, must operate on chs 2 - 51 (excluding 37, of course).

The thing is, why build a seemingly redundant analog station on ch 52 when you already have a digital station on 36?

 

[w9wi]

The thing is, why build a seemingly redundant analog station on ch 52 when you already have a digital station on 36?

The channel 52 application was filed three years before the channel 36 application - and before the FCC announced the availabilty of digital companion channels for LPTVs - when they filed it they didn't know they would eventually have a digital station on 36.

 

[dhett]

You're correct; my bad. Actually, chan-52 was licensed, but went silent on 11/13 of this year. They filed a silent STA, the last part of which reads as follows:

THE TRANSMITTING ANTENNA FOR ANALOG CHANNEL 52 IS BEING REMOVED IN ORDER TO MAKE ROOM FOR THE DIGITAL CHANNEL 36 ANTENNA, WHICH IS TO OCCUPY THE SAME SPACE ON THE TOWER. ONCE THE CHANNEL 36 ANTENNA IS IN PLACE, THE LICENSEE/PERMITTEE WILL FILE AN APPLICATION FOR A LICENSE TO COVER THE OUTSTANDING DIGITAL CONSTRUCTION PERMIT. UPON GRANT OF THAT LICENSE, THE LICENSE FOR ANALOG CHANNEL 52, K52IS, WILL BE SURRENDERED FOR CANCELLATION.

So they are replacing analog chan-52 with LPDTV chan-36.

 

[CW]

The FCC database designates K36ID-D is the digital companion channel to K52IS, not KUIL-LP, and there is no KUIL-LD. KUIL-LP, K52IS and K36ID-D are all owned by Blue Bonnet Communications, so it's possible that K52IS was to be a repeater of KUIL-LP, and with K36ID-D up and running, K52IS might magically disappear.

With the core channels staying 2-51, 52 would have to go away anyway...

Nope. Not for LPTV stations. Because they're a secondary service, they can continue to use chs 52 - 59 as long as they don't cause interference to any primary services in that band. They also must accept any interference from primary services. The exception in LPTV is Class A stations, which must be in-core. Now it's likely with the Beaumont area being populated, there might already be a primary service on planned on ch 52 or 53 making LPTV operation on ch 52 impossible, or at least undesirable, but that band is available. Chs 60 - 69, however, are not available to any TV service.

Full-service stations, however, must operate on chs 2 - 51 (excluding 37, of course).

The thing is, why build a seemingly redundant analog station on ch 52 when you already have a digital station on 36?

I realize LPTVs and translators can remain in 52-59...but eventually it WILL go away (all of 700MHz eventually is! and the LP analog well within the City Grade of the main , 29 KVHP, somewhat made me wonder...unless it was because of Dallas COwboy coverage on FOX for Orange which they would not get on 29)....NOW with a digital, it made 52 a moot point...I am surprised 36 is on a tower well to the east of 64 (their Beaumont LP analog)....that means off air users have to rotate the antenna 90-180 degrees to watch the digital signal......but the STL shot was easier from 29s tower to 36 than to 64 which is fed by sat.

 

[dhett]

I realize LPTVs and translators can remain in 52-59...but eventually it WILL go away (all of 700MHz eventually is!

That's what I'm trying to tell you - TV service in channel 52 - 59 WILL NOT go away. Unless you know something about future FCC policy that the rest of us don't. On February 17, 2009, all full-service and class A television stations will be required to vacate the 700 MHz band, channels 52 - 69. However, after February 17, 2009, LPTV (including translators) will be allowed to remain in the lower 700 MHz band, channels 52 - 59, because they are a secondary service and must yield to all primary services wherever they are. The upper 700 MHz band, channels 60 - 69, will be completely clear of television service.

 

[CW]

I realize LPTVs and translators can remain in 52-59...but eventually it WILL go away (all of 700MHz eventually is!

That's what I'm trying to tell you - TV service in channel 52 - 59 WILL NOT go away. Unless you know something about future FCC policy that the rest of us don't. On February 17, 2009, all full-service and class A television stations will be required to vacate the 700 MHz band, channels 52 - 69. However, after February 17, 2009, LPTV (including translators) will be allowed to remain in the lower 700 MHz band, channels 52 - 59, because they are a secondary service and must yield to all primary services wherever they are. The upper 700 MHz band, channels 60 - 69, will be completely clear of television service.

From a recent STA denial, the FCC said (quote)
Finally, Congress has directed the Commission expeditiously auction the lower 700 MHz
spectrum by January 28, 2008.1 As a result, the Commission has imposed a freeze on the
expansion of service areas for stations operating on Channels 52-59.2 Grant of the requested
STA or other operating authority as proposed would impair the Commission’s ability to
effectuate Congressional direction.

Hmmm Jan 28, 2008?? That means by Feb 17,2009, there WILL be people wanting to use that segment...LPTV and translators be damned...they EVENTUALLY are going away..argument closed.

 

[dhett]

Read this from the US Department of Commerce - go to paragraph #66.

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_2e.htm

 

[CW]

Read this from the US Department of Commerce - go to paragraph #66.

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_2e.htm

NTIA can "plan" or think ahead all they want...Common sense says the lower 700Mhz band is going to auction off BECAUSE CONGRESS has mandated it. New users who have primary use will come along...anyone LEFT in that band is screwed and will HAVE/WANT to move unless they are in BFE and nothing around them to cause them to move..but REALITY says they will go...just like translators in 70-83.....when cellphones came out...didnt take them long to pick up and GO AWAY even though they legally could stay....LP and translators in the lower 700Mhz band will face the SAME situation and move even more so...they dont want to lose what little audience they have.....and IF they dont move, they may not get a new channel in the core region if all of them get used up after the analog sunset.....the iron is hot, the time to strike is BEFORE they get TOLD to move....it will happen AND its gonna happen; its just common sense....BTW I still have a TV that goes to 70-83; But I dont see anyone there, BUT the tuner still covers there, WHY was that??!! Oh this TV was built in the late 80s!.......gee do I see a similar situation? you bet my sweet arse I do.....bye bye 52-59...you'll be gone by the end of the decade I bet.

BTW 36-1 is back on after being off the air for the weekend.....Sure wish they would change their aspect ratio when not in HD mode.....but I sure can tell the difference in quality...

 

[dhett]

Now we get to the heart of the matter: your "argument" is from pure speculation, speculation that I actually agree with. My argument, made without shouting, is from fact. No matter what I think may happen in the future, again, my statement was correct: LPTV stations can continue to exist in the lower 700 MHz band, as long as they do not interfere with a primary service in that band. Had you presented your point as opinion and not as fact, I would not have debated you, as there would have been nothing to debate.

The auction of the lower 700 MHz band, scheduled for Jan. 24, 2008, involves hundreds of licenses, each fairly localized. It is conceivable that not all licenses will have a buyer. In those cases, pre-existing LPTV stations will be allowed to remain. In the unlikely event that every license be auctioned off, and every buyer begin operation of a primary service, then yes, all LPTV stations would be displaced and would be forced to find an in-core channel, or cease operation.