L.A. PPM RATINGS RELEASED-HOLIDAY BOOK PERIOD 12/11/08-1/7/09

[pjc1961]

To see the ratings grid for age 6+ from www.radio-info.com for this period, click on link below:

http://www.radio-info.com/site/markets/grid/los-angeles

To this thread I'll add demo breakouts from newspaper/internet articles if/when they become available.

The next ratings survey period is "January 2009": 1/8/09-2/4/09 with the data released on Wednesday 2/25/09.

 

[davideduardo]

The next ratings survey period is "January 2009": 1/8/09-2/4/09 with the data released on Wednesday 2/25/09.

Remember, the stations also get weekly reports each Monday, but advertisers and the press do not.

 

[pjc1961]

The next ratings survey period is "January 2009": 1/8/09-2/4/09 with the data released on Wednesday 2/25/09.

Remember, the stations also get weekly reports each Monday, but advertisers and the press do not.

Thanks, David. In future messages I'll preface the reports as being "publicly released".

 

[4UH8SIMBKAGN]

Amazing. The Los Angeles Times publishes a story today about the PREVIOUS ratings period. What a newspaper. No wonder Tribune is bankrupt. http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-arbitron29-2009jan29,0,7504580.story

 

[westfield60]

I noticed that almighty KFI stumbled a tad bit probably due to that horrible traffic wreck called the Kennedy and Suits show. Also KABC dropped quite a bit showing further proof that it may be too late for them after years of neglect and horrible programming.

 

[4UH8SIMBKAGN]

I noticed that almighty KFI stumbled a tad bit probably due to that horrible traffic wreck called the Kennedy and Suits show. Also KABC dropped quite a bit showing further proof that it may be too late for them after years of neglect and horrible programming.

Handel & John & Ken were on vacation during that period. John & Ken normally take different weeks off so one of them is on the air but during that period there were days when they were both off.

 

[Zeb Norris]

KLOS 2.8 to 2.3 (12+... useless, but all I have access to)

Were they running their A to Z in this period?

 

[scooty430]

KLOS 2.8 to 2.3 (12+... useless, but all I have access to)

Were they running their A to Z in this period?

A to Z started Christmas Day and went two weeks.

 

[davideduardo]

KLOS 2.8 to 2.3 (12+... useless, but all I have access to)

Were they running their A to Z in this period?

A to Z started Christmas Day and went two weeks.

Maybe that explains why the last two weeks of the Holiday book significantly underindexed the average for the last 3 months of PPM books...

 

[scooty430]

So what explains the fact that they've done A to Z for almost a decade?

You do realize of course that during a holiday period they lose a good portion of their Mark and Brian listeners, and the half-listening office people, their bread and butter. Maybe without the A to Z ratings would have been even lower. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

You also realize the guy they just hired is on record as using deeper playlists?

And last of all, you do realize that of the major stations playing older rock music (KRTH, JACK, KLOS), KLOS has the smallest playlist and the smallest ratings?

 

[davideduardo]

So what explains the fact that they've done A to Z for almost a decade?

Probably, in this case, it's the fact that there have never been ratings for the pre-Christmas to post-New Year period.

You do realize of course that during a holiday period they lose a good portion of their Mark and Brian listeners, and the half-listening office people, their bread and butter.

You know this how? There have never been ratings for the period, so you are guessing.

In any case, I was looking at 10 AM to Midnight, and my statement stands.

In any case, we are looking at share, and except for a few cultural differences in Hispanic and non-Hispanic listening, all stations go through the same period with lighter cume and AQH persons. But share is a percentage of people who do listen, so there are always 100 shares, no matter what.

Maybe without the A to Z ratings would have been even lower. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

Mostly, it is an analysis you do not have the facts, experience and knowledge to make.

And last of all, you do realize that of the major stations playing older rock music (KRTH, JACK, KLOS), KLOS has the smallest playlist and the smallest ratings?

KRTH is hardly a rock station. It's pop. Jack is a little bit of everything.

You listed the three stations in the precise order of their appeal to Hispanics, as shown in Arbitron. In a market that is 42% Hispanic, that is the real issue.

 

[radioresearcher]

So what explains the fact that they've done A to Z for almost a decade?

Probably, in this case, it's the fact that there have never been ratings for the pre-Christmas to post-New Year period.

You do realize of course that during a holiday period they lose a good portion of their Mark and Brian listeners, and the half-listening office people, their bread and butter.

You know this how? There have never been ratings for the period, so you are guessing.

In any case, I was looking at 10 AM to Midnight, and my statement stands.

In any case, we are looking at share, and except for a few cultural differences in Hispanic and non-Hispanic listening, all stations go through the same period with lighter cume and AQH persons. But share is a percentage of people who do listen, so there are always 100 shares, no matter what.

Maybe without the A to Z ratings would have been even lower. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

Mostly, it is an analysis you do not have the facts, experience and knowledge to make.

And last of all, you do realize that of the major stations playing older rock music (KRTH, JACK, KLOS), KLOS has the smallest playlist and the smallest ratings?

KRTH is hardly a rock station. It's pop. Jack is a little bit of everything.

You listed the three stations in the precise order of their appeal to Hispanics, as shown in Arbitron. In a market that is 42% Hispanic, that is the real issue.

David ... how dare you use common sense. You and I both knew how A to Z was going to go in the meter. KLOS lost almost 50% of their audience after 10am with adults 25-54 and the last two weeks were way down.

Again, this is a different world and people need to understand this.

 

[scooty430]

I guess Hispanics like deeper playlists.

I will grant you that if you are comparing shares, then everyone is sinking and rising with overall listening. But I'd also say that perhaps a snooze-fest station like KLOS, which is designed for "at-work listening," would be extra susceptible to a holiday dip, more so than JACK, which with its cocaine jokes, dick jokes, and bleeped out profanity, is not really good for many offices. K-Earth, of course, is very office-friendly, but they were wall to wall Xmas, so it's apples and oranges.

I like your little stretch of saying that JACK, and KLOS are really different. You should be a lawyer. There is tons of cross-over on their playlsits. Both are essentially classic rock stations, except JACK has classic alternative and a little pop thrown in. K-Earth is indeed oldies, but they're playing the Doors, the Beatles, Elton John, the Eagles, and the Doobies too. I think most Angelenos of a certain age have all three on their presets.

Not sure why Hispanics would like to hear "Don't Stop" on 101.1 and 93.1, but would turn up their noses at hearing "Don't Stop" on 95.5. (Don't Stop, by the way, is by a band called "Fleetwood Mac." They were very popular in the 70s. Just putting that out there because I know that sometimes you are not familiar with some of the more obscure artists.)

Bottom line: K-Earth and JACK have bigger playlists, and more listeners. KLOS has the smallest, and is doing the worst. Facts are facts.

Anyway, If A to Zs don't work in PPM, then why are there more A to Zs in the PPM era, nationwide? In fact, didn't you once say, "look to see more of these features in the PPM era." I should do a search, because I swear you did.

Clearly, CBS-FM received the PPM data on their A to Zs, and then they did not one, but TWO more. Moreover, they are increasing the number of features with deeper tracks.

So answer this question: Why did CBS-FM do two more A to Zs?

 

[radioresearcher]

I guess Hispanics like deeper playlists.

I will grant you that if you are comparing shares, then everyone is sinking and rising with overall listening. But I'd also say that perhaps a snooze-fest station like KLOS, which is designed for "at-work listening," would be extra susceptible to a holiday dip, more so than JACK, which with its cocaine jokes, dick jokes, and bleeped out profanity, is not really good for many offices. K-Earth, of course, is very office-friendly, but they were wall to wall Xmas, so it's apples and oranges.

I like your little stretch of saying that JACK, and KLOS are really different. You should be a lawyer. There is tons of cross-over on their playlsits. Both are essentially classic rock stations, except JACK has classic alternative and a little pop thrown in. K-Earth is indeed oldies, but they're playing the Doors, the Beatles, Elton John, the Eagles, and the Doobies too. I think most Angelenos of a certain age have all three on their presets.

Not sure why Hispanics would like to hear "Don't Stop" on 101.1 and 93.1, but would turn up their noses at hearing "Don't Stop" on 95.5. (Don't Stop, by the way, is by a band called "Fleetwood Mac." They were very popular in the 70s. Just putting that out there because I know that sometimes you are not familiar with some of the more obscure artists.)

Bottom line: K-Earth and JACK have bigger playlists, and more listeners. KLOS has the smallest, and is doing the worst. Facts are facts.

Anyway, If A to Zs don't work in PPM, then why are there more A to Zs in the PPM era, nationwide? In fact, didn't you once say, "look to see more of these features in the PPM era." I should do a search, because I swear you did.

Clearly, CBS-FM received the PPM data on their A to Zs, and then they did not one, but TWO more. Moreover, they are increasing the number of features with deeper tracks.

So answer this question: Why did CBS-FM do two more A to Zs?

CBS-FM did A-Z and actually played HITS. KLOS went way too deep and it was way too long IMHO. JACK plays slightly more unique songs each week than KLOS - but they are all relatively familiar. JACK is really the Classic Rock station for Los Angeles - and I think we've had that discussin already. In the 1980's, KROQ with all of their music had numbers around the size of KLOS and KMET combined.

L.A. was about Missing Persons, The Cure, and Depeche Mode just as much as it was about Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, and ZZ Top. JACK figured out that out and is why it is successful.

How do you argue that KOLA in Riverside plays slightly more than half the songs that KRTH does. KRTH has a great signal in the I.E. yet KOLA beats it 4-1.

 

[davideduardo]

I guess Hispanics like deeper playlists.

No, like the French, the Indonesians and the Pakistanis, they like hits. There are that many ***researching*** hits in that format. If there were only 300 hits, 300 would be played.

I will grant you that if you are comparing shares, then everyone is sinking and rising with overall listening. But I'd also say that perhaps a snooze-fest station like KLOS, which is designed for "at-work listening," would be extra susceptible to a holiday dip,

Since when is KLOS "designed" for at work listening? It's designed for a demo, and maybe a lifestyle. In the last diary book, KLOS had 26% at work AQH, Jack had 30% and KOST had nearly 40%. So much for that theory, which can be proven entirely wrong.

more so than JACK, which with its cocaine jokes, dick jokes, and bleeped out profanity, is not really good for many offices.

Most people don't work in offices. And most people don't work 9 to 5, either.

K-Earth, of course, is very office-friendly, but they were wall to wall Xmas, so it's apples and oranges.

Both KLVE, Spanish language AC, and KSCA, Spanish language country, have 27% of listening at work. KRTH is 31%, about the same as Jack. Again, you are working without the facts, and just plain wrong.

There is tons of cross-over on their playlsits. Both are essentially classic rock stations, except JACK has classic alternative and a little pop thrown in. K-Earth is indeed oldies, but they're playing the Doors, the Beatles, Elton John, the Eagles, and the Doobies too. I think most Angelenos of a certain age have all three on their presets.

What distinguishes and separates a station is what it plays that is different. Still, indexed to audience size, KROQ, KRTH, KLOS and KCBS have high mutual sharing, with a station like KRTH also shareing with kHHT and The wave as well. Pretty much every station shares a little with every other.

[/quote]Not sure why Hispanics would like to hear "Don't Stop" on 101.1 and 93.1, but would turn up their noses at hearing "Don't Stop" on 95.5.[/quote]

Maybe because of the other songs played there... and the style of presentation.

(Don't Stop, by the way, is by a band called "Fleetwood Mac." They were very popular in the 70s. Just putting that out there because I know that sometimes you are not familiar with some of the more obscure artists.)

Uh, I played Jefferson Airplane in the late 60's in Ecuador, and while PD of Top 40s in places like Birmingham and Phoenix, we were known to play Fleetwood Mac and some of those "obscure" artists on the Capricorn label... At one time there were more rock stations in Lima, Peru than in any city in the US.

Anyway, If A to Zs don't work in PPM, then why are there more A to Zs in the PPM era, nationwide?

Not every station has figured out the PPM. Obviously, one of them was KLOS and that seems to be part of why they have a new PD.

 

[scooty430]

I guess Hispanics like deeper playlists.

I will grant you that if you are comparing shares, then everyone is sinking and rising with overall listening. But I'd also say that perhaps a snooze-fest station like KLOS, which is designed for "at-work listening," would be extra susceptible to a holiday dip, more so than JACK, which with its cocaine jokes, dick jokes, and bleeped out profanity, is not really good for many offices. K-Earth, of course, is very office-friendly, but they were wall to wall Xmas, so it's apples and oranges.

I like your little stretch of saying that JACK, and KLOS are really different. You should be a lawyer. There is tons of cross-over on their playlsits. Both are essentially classic rock stations, except JACK has classic alternative and a little pop thrown in. K-Earth is indeed oldies, but they're playing the Doors, the Beatles, Elton John, the Eagles, and the Doobies too. I think most Angelenos of a certain age have all three on their presets.

Not sure why Hispanics would like to hear "Don't Stop" on 101.1 and 93.1, but would turn up their noses at hearing "Don't Stop" on 95.5. (Don't Stop, by the way, is by a band called "Fleetwood Mac." They were very popular in the 70s. Just putting that out there because I know that sometimes you are not familiar with some of the more obscure artists.)

Bottom line: K-Earth and JACK have bigger playlists, and more listeners. KLOS has the smallest, and is doing the worst. Facts are facts.

Anyway, If A to Zs don't work in PPM, then why are there more A to Zs in the PPM era, nationwide? In fact, didn't you once say, "look to see more of these features in the PPM era." I should do a search, because I swear you did.

Clearly, CBS-FM received the PPM data on their A to Zs, and then they did not one, but TWO more. Moreover, they are increasing the number of features with deeper tracks.

So answer this question: Why did CBS-FM do two more A to Zs?

CBS-FM did A-Z and actually played HITS. KLOS went way too deep and it was way too long IMHO. JACK plays slightly more unique songs each week than KLOS - but they are all relatively familiar. JACK is really the Classic Rock station for Los Angeles - and I think we've had that discussin already. In the 1980's, KROQ with all of their music had numbers around the size of KLOS and KMET combined.

L.A. was about Missing Persons, The Cure, and Depeche Mode just as much as it was about Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, and ZZ Top. JACK figured out that out and is why it is successful.

How do you argue that KOLA in Riverside plays slightly more than half the songs that KRTH does. KRTH has a great signal in the I.E. yet KOLA beats it 4-1.

The CBS A to Z was actually MUCH more adventurous than the KLOS one - they were playing very rarely played songs, and stretching back to the mid 50s. They were both about the same length, and both were about 2500 songs. Very, very big.

Still doesn't answer the question for those that think A to Z and deep playlist is a no-go.

Agree about the JACK analysis, and their pegging of the LA market. By the mid-80s, KROQ was the coolest station in town, not KLOS or KMET. But, again, JACK has a 2000 song playlist. Once again, more songs is better than fewer. That is my central point.

As for KOLA, I don't know much about them. When I dial them up, they sound like they play more tracks than K-Earth, but I don't listen often because I can't get them too clearly. I know for sure they play way more Xmas tunes. It may be that people in the IE simply regard it as a local station - they have local traffic reports, local ads, etc. It's "their" station. They'd probably still listen (in fact like it more) if the playlist were increased. No competition.

Did hear some changes on KLOS today:

- a feature weekend of long blocks of obscure Bruce tunes. It's been a long time since KLOS did theme weekends. (Sorry David Eduardo, looks like yet another station is not heeding your advice. Themed weekends! Stiffs!......Hooray!)

- longer spaces between station IDs and DJ talk. Music flowing together like the good old days of AOR/progressive, sometimes three songs in a row with no talk or jingles.

- annoying, noisy jingles of random noises and obnoxious guys yelling are apparently gone (good riddance)

- Music being mixed manually. For instance, they let the end of Floyd's "Another Brick" play all the way until the cold ending of "Mother", then segued right into "Hey Nineteen." Normally, the computer would just dump as the song is fading. Heard a couple other mixed songs as well.

- Heard promos for "KABC-FM - the Los Angeles heavy" that must be from almost 40 years ago. Cool.

It should be interesting to see where this new (but experienced) guy goes with it.

 

[scooty430]

I guess Hispanics like deeper playlists.

No, like the French, the Indonesians and the Pakistanis, they like hits. There are that many ***researching*** hits in that format. If there were only 300 hits, 300 would be played.

I will grant you that if you are comparing shares, then everyone is sinking and rising with overall listening. But I'd also say that perhaps a snooze-fest station like KLOS, which is designed for "at-work listening," would be extra susceptible to a holiday dip,

Since when is KLOS "designed" for at work listening? It's designed for a demo, and maybe a lifestyle. In the last diary book, KLOS had 26% at work AQH, Jack had 30% and KOST had nearly 40%. So much for that theory, which can be proven entirely wrong.

more so than JACK, which with its cocaine jokes, dick jokes, and bleeped out profanity, is not really good for many offices.

Most people don't work in offices. And most people don't work 9 to 5, either.

K-Earth, of course, is very office-friendly, but they were wall to wall Xmas, so it's apples and oranges.

Both KLVE, Spanish language AC, and KSCA, Spanish language country, have 27% of listening at work. KRTH is 31%, about the same as Jack. Again, you are working without the facts, and just plain wrong.

There is tons of cross-over on their playlsits. Both are essentially classic rock stations, except JACK has classic alternative and a little pop thrown in. K-Earth is indeed oldies, but they're playing the Doors, the Beatles, Elton John, the Eagles, and the Doobies too. I think most Angelenos of a certain age have all three on their presets.

What distinguishes and separates a station is what it plays that is different. Still, indexed to audience size, KROQ, KRTH, KLOS and KCBS have high mutual sharing, with a station like KRTH also shareing with kHHT and The wave as well. Pretty much every station shares a little with every other.

Not sure why Hispanics would like to hear "Don't Stop" on 101.1 and 93.1, but would turn up their noses at hearing "Don't Stop" on 95.5.[/quote]

Maybe because of the other songs played there... and the style of presentation.

(Don't Stop, by the way, is by a band called "Fleetwood Mac." They were very popular in the 70s. Just putting that out there because I know that sometimes you are not familiar with some of the more obscure artists.)

Uh, I played Jefferson Airplane in the late 60's in Ecuador, and while PD of Top 40s in places like Birmingham and Phoenix, we were known to play Fleetwood Mac and some of those "obscure" artists on the Capricorn label... At one time there were more rock stations in Lima, Peru than in any city in the US.

Anyway, If A to Zs don't work in PPM, then why are there more A to Zs in the PPM era, nationwide?

Not every station has figured out the PPM. Obviously, one of them was KLOS and that seems to be part of why they have a new PD.

[/quote]

Most people don't work 9 to 5?

Guess you don't drive during morning or afternoon rush hour.

I'm sometimes amazed at your statements!

 

[davideduardo]

Most people don't work 9 to 5?

Guess you don't drive during morning or afternoon rush hour.

I'm sometimes amazed at your statements!

If you look at the Caltrans data, the census data (the long form surveyed drive time behaviour) and other sources, you will see that, while 9 AM (and the hour prior for driving) may be near the highest time of work start, 8 AM and 8:30 exceed it, and nowhere near the majority of workers start at 9 AM. Between shift workers, who may start at 4 AM, 5 AM or AM for a morning shift (or Noon, 1 or 2 PM for afternonons, etc) and service workers who start at between 5 AM and 7 AM (FedEx, UPS, delivery trucks, loading docks, supermarket suppliers, etc.). Around 9:30 or 10 AM may be retail starts, and then there are restarurants and fast food stores...

In other words, there are jobs that start at or in every hour, 24 hours a day. Some are higher than others, but 6 AM, 7 AM, 8 AM, 9 AM and 10 AM are the highest. In fact, in LA County, there has been a conserted effort to get many jobs to start anytime but 7, 8, or 9 AM... like the schedules mandated for shipments leaving the port of LA on container carrying trucks as one example.

But 9 AM is nowhere near a majority work-start time, so my statement that the majority of people do not work 9 to 5 is easily proven because the majority of jobs don't start at 9 AM.

 

[davideduardo]

But, again, JACK has a 2000 song playlist. Once again, more songs is better than fewer. That is my central point.

They get you with the sucker punch every time, don't they?

No PD, speaking to the press, is going to be precise on library or formatics or anything else. They will deal in an amount of hyperbole, and attempt to obfuscate while answering specific questions about how a stations achieved success. We don't give away the secrets. Yet you believe every word someone says in the press...

As for KOLA, I don't know much about them. When I dial them up, they sound like they play more tracks than K-Earth, but I don't listen often because I can't get them too clearly.

Their list is considerably shorter than that of KRTH, and more focused in the 70's. It also has a much higher share in the IE than KRTH has in LA.

- a feature weekend of long blocks of obscure Bruce tunes. It's been a long time since KLOS did theme weekends. (Sorry David Eduardo, looks like yet another station is not heeding your advice. Themed weekends! Stiffs!......Hooray!)

Themed weekends are not specialty shows. They are generally ways of combining the same library in different ways, often combined with unique prizing related to the artist or style or fad being featured.

- Music being mixed manually. For instance, they let the end of Floyd's "Another Brick" play all the way until the cold ending of "Mother", then segued right into "Hey Nineteen." Normally, the computer would just dump as the song is fading. Heard a couple other mixed songs as well.

Normally, if precise transitions are wanted, the jock on duty will run the computer in live asist mode and hit the transition themselves. This is evidence of nothing.

 

[oldies76]

Themed weekends are not specialty shows. They are generally ways of combining the same library in different ways, often combined with unique prizing related to the artist or style or fad being featured.

Right, exactly what KRTH does...In other words playing the same stuff in a different order, to make it sound like a specialty or theme.

A "true" themed weekend or specialty would incorporate the real songs and hits that relate to the theme, not using fillers or the EVERYDAY song rotation.

If it was a "Beach Songs" weekend, then I'd expect all surf-related songs to be aired, even the ones from the early 60's, like "Miserlou" or "Walk Don't Run".


To combine the same library with to make it sound like a special is not good programming and is basically giving false ideas to the listening community. Really, if KRTH played "Brown-Eyed Girl" or "Sign, Sealed Delivered" during a #1 hits weekend, as fillers, that would not fly very well at all.