LAS VEGAS HAS A DANCE STATION JUST LIKE PULSE 87.7 ITS CALLED 94.5 THE VIBEhttp:

[davideduardo]

While there is no market for a 1-share station in general market, there is for the Hispanic market, where a 1 share in general market is a 10 to 12 share among Spanish dominant Hispanics.

What about the club scene? What about that community for those dedicated for the nightlife and to get their business promoted. Unfortunately, Internet Radio streams cannot ir revenue or else a big royalty charge will be penilized by the Copyright Royalty Board. IN THE JERSEY SHORE, so many bars and nightclubs love to get their ads on the air. However, big greedy advertisers in NYC specifically, look at "local" businesses as a joke. I am not pulling this out of thin air, I am telling you this because I was out there promoting my station, and getting to know my area. Dance music has their own community, i.e., Latinos, Guidos, LBGT, (yes, there is a gay community in Asbury Park) and all others that respect and love dance music and would love nothing for even an LPFM to play some dance in the shore. LI has Party, and had them for years, so why not the shore, which is reconized and most popular with MTV coming down here, have a dance station.

The "dance community" is not an accepted marketing group by companies ranging from P&G to Coca Cola. Blacks, Hispanics (and among Hispanics different nationalities) and, of course age and gender distinctions are considered to be market segments. Until the "dance community" gets a message through to advertisers that they are both numerous and unreachable efficiently via other media channels, you point has zero value.

This is why there are no successes among the small signal dance stations... they can't be sold as a market segment, and they can't compete in the general market.

 

[d21ofnj]

The "dance community" is not an accepted marketing group by companies ranging from P&G to Coca Cola. Blacks, Hispanics (and among Hispanics different nationalities) and, of course age and gender distinctions are considered to be market segments. Until the "dance community" gets a message through to advertisers that they are both numerous and unreachable efficiently via other media channels, you point has zero value.

This is why there are no successes among the small signal dance stations... they can't be sold as a market segment, and they can't compete in the general market.

Let me ask you one thing....have you seen that Dr. Pepper commercial with Dr. Dre and that dj spinning hard house/rave? You have to know about dance being stereotyped or you just don't care because you are with that stereotypical crowd. Let me say this again:

The lack of intelligence by the mainstream still labeling dance as "techno" and advertisers looks at dance and thinks "we are a bunch of druggies, who drink nothing but booze, and have too much sex." They are stuck in that stereotype where if they give ad dollars to a dance station, the dance station will do some ecstasy trade or invest in an illegal rave. This is where the problem lies here. Whenever someone looks at a dance station, they automatically assume it's "techno" and all we do is just pop pills and swing glowsticks around, or just assumes that only gays listen to dance music. Blacks do listen to dance music too, we have DJ's like Carl Cox, Felix Da housecat, and vocalists like Steve Edwards. Hispanic DJ's like Robbie Rivera, Junior Vasquez just to name a few. The real problem is that none of these big corps gave dance a chance, and they knew it was going to have problems with the smaller media groups because they know the advertisers and the mainstream have that stereotype stuck to them and they will assume that it's only going to cater to either gays or druggies with baggy pants and glowsticks. Maybe if those guys had enough guts and stop believing the lies and the brainwashing messages, you will see how well the genre of dance will do. And Pulse, Energy SF/Arizona/Chicago, Party LI/Orlando/Miami, C89.5, Vibe, and KTU before they were clearchannel, made that point.

 

[davideduardo]

... and advertisers looks at dance and thinks "we are a bunch of druggies, who drink nothing but booze, and have too much sex." They are stuck in that stereotype where if they give ad dollars to a dance station, the dance station will do some ecstasy trade or invest in an illegal rave.

While that level of ignorance or prejudice exists among some smaller local direct advertisers, it applies in one way or another to many formats.

There are advertisers at that level who think country listeners are moneyless hicks. There are those who think hip hop is all about violence. There are those who think CHR is only listened to by teens. And so on.

But the major advertisers generally are not concerned about formats, but rather, about the cost per listener and how each station in a market contributes to reach. And many, many of the accounts are placed from out of market, and often don't even know what the formats are. Where format comes into play is when a particular product is inappropriate for a particular segment of the population and where that distinction matches certain formats; most of these distinctions are based on ethnic preferences, and may include food products, etc.

But, given how few dance stations there are, and the fact that none are likely to be ranked high enough to get bought by agencies, that aspect of buying is really not significant. So we are dealing with small local accounts, where the owner makes the ad decisions and often bases them on personal likes and dislikes and stereotypes. But big stations with big ratings don't generally have to deal with this kind of advertiser anyway.

 

[TonySantiago]

But big stations with big ratings don't generally have to deal with this kind of advertiser anyway.

Because the big guys "price them out" of range so that the "little guy" couldn't bill there, thus making it solely for the "corporate" sell. Yet one would think because a smaller station is cheaper, and when you're considering a bad economy with stripped down budgets, that "corporate" would want to look into the smaller venues, even if in their mindset, the audience is rather "niche", but could have potential to be a devoted "buyer base".

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

Re: LAS VEGAS HAS A DANCE STATION JUST LIKE PULSE 87.7 ITS CALLED 94.5 THE VIBEh

Hispanic DJ's like Robbie Rivera, Junior Vasquez just to name a few.

The fact that you called Junior Vasquez "hispanic" just invalidated your entire argument.

There is nothing hispanic about Vasquez. His real name is Donald Mattern.

 

[davideduardo]

Because the big guys "price them out" of range so that the "little guy" couldn't bill there, thus making it solely for the "corporate" sell.

Pricing is based on the cost per point. That levels the playing field, as the rate offered by agencies is based on how many listeners in the target demo are delivered.

Yet one would think because a smaller station is cheaper, and when you're considering a bad economy with stripped down budgets, that "corporate" would want to look into the smaller venues, even if in their mindset, the audience is rather "niche", but could have potential to be a devoted "buyer base".

It is a lot more difficult to buy 20 little stations when 2 or 3 big ones would be more effective, as the reach and frequency math is easier and more certain. This is why stations are generally only skipped on a buy if, in the target advertiser demo, they don't match or beat the CPP.

 

[d21ofnj]

Re: LAS VEGAS HAS A DANCE STATION JUST LIKE PULSE 87.7 ITS CALLED 94.5 THE VIBEh

Hispanic DJ's like Robbie Rivera, Junior Vasquez just to name a few.

The fact that you called Junior Vasquez "hispanic" just invalidated your entire argument.

There is nothing hispanic about Vasquez. His real name is Donald Mattern.

You positive he isn't mixed regards if he was born in PA. David Morales was born in Brooklyn and he is of Puerto Rican descent. Regards of the matter, there are hispanics, blacks, middle eastern descents in the industry and that can't be denied. That was my point.

 

[TonySantiago]

Re: LAS VEGAS HAS A DANCE STATION JUST LIKE PULSE 87.7 ITS CALLED 94.5 THE VIBEh

Hispanic DJ's like Robbie Rivera, Junior Vasquez just to name a few.

The fact that you called Junior Vasquez "hispanic" just invalidated your entire argument.

There is nothing hispanic about Vasquez. His real name is Donald Mattern.

You positive he isn't mixed regards if he was born in PA. David Morales was born in Brooklyn and he is of Puerto Rican descent. Regards of the matter, there are hispanics, blacks, middle eastern descents in the industry and that can't be denied. That was my point.

I gotta give it to StephanieNYC on this one. "Junior Vasquez" is the DJ name of David Mattern.

 

[Dancerev889]

The "dance community" is not an accepted marketing group by companies ranging from P&G to Coca Cola. Blacks, Hispanics (and among Hispanics different nationalities) and, of course age and gender distinctions are considered to be market segments. Until the "dance community" gets a message through to advertisers that they are both numerous and unreachable efficiently via other media channels, you point has zero value.

This is why there are no successes among the small signal dance stations... they can't be sold as a market segment, and they can't compete in the general market.

Let me ask you one thing....have you seen that Dr. Pepper commercial with Dr. Dre and that dj spinning hard house/rave? You have to know about dance being stereotyped or you just don't care because you are with that stereotypical crowd. Let me say this again:

The lack of intelligence by the mainstream still labeling dance as "techno" and advertisers looks at dance and thinks "we are a bunch of druggies, who drink nothing but booze, and have too much sex." They are stuck in that stereotype where if they give ad dollars to a dance station, the dance station will do some ecstasy trade or invest in an illegal rave. This is where the problem lies here. Whenever someone looks at a dance station, they automatically assume it's "techno" and all we do is just pop pills and swing glowsticks around, or just assumes that only gays listen to dance music. Blacks do listen to dance music too, we have DJ's like Carl Cox, Felix Da housecat, and vocalists like Steve Edwards. Hispanic DJ's like Robbie Rivera, Junior Vasquez just to name a few. The real problem is that none of these big corps gave dance a chance, and they knew it was going to have problems with the smaller media groups because they know the advertisers and the mainstream have that stereotype stuck to them and they will assume that it's only going to cater to either gays or druggies with baggy pants and glowsticks. Maybe if those guys had enough guts and stop believing the lies and the brainwashing messages, you will see how well the genre of dance will do. And Pulse, Energy SF/Arizona/Chicago, Party LI/Orlando/Miami, C89.5, Vibe, and KTU before they were clearchannel, made that point.

Do you know that advertisers are stuck with this thought process? Have you ever talked to an advertiser? I have to agree with David on a lot of his points. The ad agencies are looking for one thing a good price on a station that is getting listeners. They are in business to make money. The word techno is starting to fade.


In the past year the amount of businesses that are working with us has tripled. Everyone should be happy right now. Dance music is on the rise. The new Three 6 Mafia record with Tiesto is off the hook. This is the start of something good.

 

[Morpheux]

Re: LAS VEGAS HAS A DANCE STATION JUST LIKE PULSE 87.7 ITS CALLED 94.5 THE VIBEh

Hispanic DJ's like Robbie Rivera, Junior Vasquez just to name a few.

The fact that you called Junior Vasquez "hispanic" just invalidated your entire argument.

There is nothing hispanic about Vasquez. His real name is Donald Mattern.

It's true that Vazquez isn't Hispanic but I don't see how that would invalidate his entire argument.

 

[d21ofnj]

Okay, with Mattern, I thought for some reason he had some hispanic in him. My fault. But you can't deny that there aren't blacks, hispanics, and all other nationalities in the dance industry. It's not like dance is just only designed for just gays or italians, so therefore, the point isn't entirely invalidated unless the dance industry didn't have blacks or hispanics and was just made up of italians and gays.

Do you know that advertisers are stuck with this thought process? Have you ever talked to an advertiser? I have to agree with David on a lot of his points. The ad agencies are looking for one thing a good price on a station that is getting listeners. They are in business to make money. The word techno is starting to fade.

It's not just dance, it's other formats that are in the hole as well with their respective markets. I, myself didn't speak with an advertiser, but knowing several people that are involved in sales and marketing for their brand, have spoken to advertisers and some are still stuck in this loop. It all depends on who you are working with, how business is being done, and references. But I would think that big ads like Dr. Pepper have clearly passed the message around of what they think of the dance format.

 

[Morpheux]

The only way to shift this misconception of dance music is by educating the masses.Going outside of dance friendly places to spread the messages a start. It will require a good level of patience too because lets face it, this is an uphill climb but it is attainable. The best approach being based on facts and not be combative. The timing couldn't be better with all the uptempo music in the mainstream. Of course, the music speaks for itself. If catchy, melodic, dance songs continue to be made people will listen no matter what.

 

[JohnParker]

While this whole discussion has seemed to veer off the thread title I wanted to add this. David is 100% right on what he is saying about advertisters and their approach. It's also a fact that if you can't get advertisers, you don't have a chance at making your station happen. The thing that people should be getting out of this but don't seem to be, is that until the dance community can show that what the demos are of the group and how an advertister can capitalize on that demo, we will be ignored.

The dance community isn't united. They aren't vocal. And it is they and not the artists that have no "face" when it comes to the things that could really turn this situation at radio and with marketers around. We continue to let things happen to us that other groups wouldn't stand for. When the ad that everyone seemed so annoyed with, The Dr. Pepper ad, ran what did anyone do? Did anyone start a letter writting campaign to the brand to get the message across? Did anyone go to the media outlets to express their outrage? Did anyone gather protesters to block the Madison Avenue offices of the creators of the spot? No, a few people bitched about it on a message board or two. That, my friends, is not going to get change to happen.

They say strike when the iron is hot when you want to get something done but our iron grows colder by the day. Especially for those wishing for a pure dance station in NYC. People's anger grows dimmer as they have moved from the Pulse to their ipods or internet radio or just whatever in the past few weeks. But if all of these people were so upset with Pulses death, why wasn't there something done to catch the city and the medias attention and to show that our group, our demographic, wasn't happy and wasn't about to go away?

That my friends is why we continue to spin our wheels. Because the bottom line is that it's easy to talk a big game on message boards but when a call to action is needed, our world pretends it's deaf.

jp

 

[Dancerev889]

While this whole discussion has seemed to veer off the thread title I wanted to add this. David is 100% right on what he is saying about advertisters and their approach. It's also a fact that if you can't get advertisers, you don't have a chance at making your station happen. The thing that people should be getting out of this but don't seem to be, is that until the dance community can show that what the demos are of the group and how an advertister can capitalize on that demo, we will be ignored.

The dance community isn't united. They aren't vocal. And it is they and not the artists that have no "face" when it comes to the things that could really turn this situation at radio and with marketers around. We continue to let things happen to us that other groups wouldn't stand for. When the ad that everyone seemed so annoyed with, The Dr. Pepper ad, ran what did anyone do? Did anyone start a letter writting campaign to the brand to get the message across? Did anyone go to the media outlets to express their outrage? Did anyone gather protesters to block the Madison Avenue offices of the creators of the spot? No, a few people bitched about it on a message board or two. That, my friends, is not going to get change to happen.

They say strike when the iron is hot when you want to get something done but our iron grows colder by the day. Especially for those wishing for a pure dance station in NYC. People's anger grows dimmer as they have moved from the Pulse to their ipods or internet radio or just whatever in the past few weeks. But if all of these people were so upset with Pulses death, why wasn't there something done to catch the city and the medias attention and to show that our group, our demographic, wasn't happy and wasn't about to go away?

That my friends is why we continue to spin our wheels. Because the bottom line is that it's easy to talk a big game on message boards but when a call to action is needed, our world pretends it's deaf.

jp

John is absolutely right. Standing O

 

[TonySantiago]

While this whole discussion has seemed to veer off the thread title I wanted to add this. David is 100% right on what he is saying about advertisters and their approach. It's also a fact that if you can't get advertisers, you don't have a chance at making your station happen. The thing that people should be getting out of this but don't seem to be, is that until the dance community can show that what the demos are of the group and how an advertister can capitalize on that demo, we will be ignored.

The dance community isn't united. They aren't vocal. And it is they and not the artists that have no "face" when it comes to the things that could really turn this situation at radio and with marketers around. We continue to let things happen to us that other groups wouldn't stand for. When the ad that everyone seemed so annoyed with, The Dr. Pepper ad, ran what did anyone do? Did anyone start a letter writting campaign to the brand to get the message across? Did anyone go to the media outlets to express their outrage? Did anyone gather protesters to block the Madison Avenue offices of the creators of the spot? No, a few people bitched about it on a message board or two. That, my friends, is not going to get change to happen.

They say strike when the iron is hot when you want to get something done but our iron grows colder by the day. Especially for those wishing for a pure dance station in NYC. People's anger grows dimmer as they have moved from the Pulse to their ipods or internet radio or just whatever in the past few weeks. But if all of these people were so upset with Pulses death, why wasn't there something done to catch the city and the medias attention and to show that our group, our demographic, wasn't happy and wasn't about to go away?

That my friends is why we continue to spin our wheels. Because the bottom line is that it's easy to talk a big game on message boards but when a call to action is needed, our world pretends it's deaf.

jp

Okay John, since this appears to be directed at me and at our community, time to step up and say something.

The reason why the coalition IS HERE is to act and do whatever we have to on a grass roots level, which certainly is not an easy task being that it's just a bunch of fans for the most part that have joined.

As a matter of, I have done letters to Dr. Pepper regarding that ad. We tried something, which gets to be pretty difficult when I'm trying to figure out who to get at, what else needs to be done, etc. We were all ready to make noise just after Pulse went off the air, but then soon enough Party FM happened and knowing that Vic Latino was there and his status with dance, I felt things were going to be okay. I knew what the situation was going to be with that station but I figured, let's give Vic some time to make things happen...and he has. There still is hip-hop there but in comparison to day one, but the dance product has picked up.

Yes, people are upset with the Pulse situation and you have people that have gone away from Party FM because they are not the same as Pulse. What has been frustrating ME is the fact that I'm caught between a "rock and a hard place" because I AM concerned about the fans, yet at the same time (and get in here Brett, you know you wanna) I have to handle the radio aspect as being part of the business that it is, and that what REALLY matters are the ad money.

John, I've been doing my DAMNDEST to do what we can as a group to make an effort to push, but many times I do feel alone in it. So, I'm going to throw this at you......WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO??? HOW CAN YOU AND OTHERS IN THE RELATED INDUSTRIES HELP ME OUT? WHERE DO WE AIM TO?. If you or anyone else can answer that, I'll listen. I really want to do something here. It's not that we're just people yelling out and sitting on our asses just looking to the sky and yelling we want more dance music. Things have to take shape. I want it to! This isn't "talking out of my ass!" I WANT to do something more.

Not for nothing, but I haven't heard anyone on the industry side as of late wanting to do something, or have more connections than I ever could in terms of getting to the right people in the media to push for our cause. I'll sit down with media. I'd also like to do events to push our cause. If you, and others in here, can help me with that...please do! Otherwise, if no one on the industry side is doing anything alongside us then how can we help do something?

It isn't an easy thing.....being united, but we do try considering that a lot of what I do, I spend my OWN money on it.

So go ahead.....either tell me what we have to do, and not just TELL ME....DO IT WITH ME! WORK WITH ME! I'll meet anyone anywhere with this. No talk...and I think you know that John.

I'm ready for the "gang up". BRING IT!

 

[CHRles]

Tony, I don't think John was addressing you. Go back and read the past couple of pages, especially the way David Eduardo has rightfully countered some of the other posters arguments.
John was addressing certain individuals, as well as problems facing Dance fans in general. If anything, John's gripe may be that there aren't enough people like you, Tony, out there around the country.

 

[TonySantiago]

John and I spoke on this a few minutes. All cool. And he IS right and yeah, it is FRUSTRATING, I'll admit....not that he's right but the situation with dance music in general.

To that, I'm actually going to take a suggestion John gave me and get at it. I want to view the European dance magazines and see who the advertisers are. I want to try to get appointments with the American counterparts in terms of doing "research" into the demographics of the dance music fan and see if perhaps they would consider taking out an ad if such a magazine came to existence here.

There is a lot more that needs to be done. If there is such a "divide" amongst ourselves, then how do we get everyone to be at least "near" the same page. With the whole Pulse/Party thing happening, I've been trying to be the "voice of reason" to get those that are upset to give things a chance at Party. But I also sense the frustration of those fans that have given things a chance and have been disappointed since they are not Pulse, nor will they ever be. A beloved station that was gone due to their own financial messes, that occured BEFORE the station came to existence, gets replaced by a station that while has some aspect of what Pulse did, has other things that differ from what the audience had been used to.

No bash on Party and what they are trying to do, I still support, but maybe down the road there HAS to be another station in the style of a Pulse if that's going to not only appease people but show to the advertisers/corporate that there is an actual audience that wants this brand of programming on the air (with proof to the advertisers noting the demos and potential for money to be earned.)

I'm going to be thinking deeply all night on this.....

 

[CHRles]

Tony, some of these Pulse fans who are disappointed with Party just don't get it. A station like Party has a much better chance of making Dance music appeal to a broader audience. The whole package is there - fun on air jocks, good imaging, and non-Dance records played in their original version that help break the monotony. That's what the masses in the US enjoy. The US needs Dance heavy Rhythmics or Dance heavy CHR/Pop stations as far as terrestrial radio is concerned. We're, unfortunately, just not on the same page as European radio when it comes to the accessibility of Dance music.
At the same time, here's some food for thought - countries like Holland or Romania, that are currently well served by Dance stations, did not have such terrestrial outlets in the 70s when many Disco stations popped up all over the US, nor did they have Top 40/Dance stations of the kind that we witnessed in the second half of the 80s.
Let's also not forget that New York doesn't have a pure Hard Rock or pure Modern Rock station, nor a Country outlet. The Hip Hop stations in town also play some uptempo R&B and some ballads, meaning they realize they can't just play 12 Rap songs in a row. So when you think about it, Party actually does a great job of playing the big and accessible commercial Dance hits, alongside other big Rhythmic Pop hits.

If the biggest testing records on Z-100, 103.5 KTU, and Radio Now 92.3 were Dance records, if a station like Party can achieve good ratings, and if many of the top selling songs on Itunes become Dance hits, then we can really think about launching a pure Dance station in places like New York and Miami. In the meantime, we need to ENCOURAGE other stations around the country to follow in Party's footsteps and give a significant amount of airplay to at least 10 current Dance records.

For thoese wanting their pure Dance fix I'd suggest satellite radio, listening online, or downloading podcasts of all the big DJs (such as Tiesto, David Guetta, Above & Beyond, etc.).

 

[thefoxxman]

..how coincidental!

Just came back from a 5 day stay in Vegas and blasted Vibe the whole time - the signal was VERY listenable from the strip to Freemont street! Nice to be able to listen to Vibe over the air!

I hope they get more advertising (Weird asking for ads, isn't it?) to stay afloat - they have great imaging (need to get some new ones though) and a great lineup of dance tracks.

 

[Dancerev889]

Tony, some of these Pulse fans who are disappointed with Party just don't get it. A station like Party has a much better chance of making Dance music appeal to a broader audience. The whole package is there - fun on air jocks, good imaging, and non-Dance records played in their original version that help break the monotony. That's what the masses in the US enjoy. The US needs Dance heavy Rhythmics or Dance heavy CHR/Pop stations as far as terrestrial radio is concerned. We're, unfortunately, just not on the same page as European radio when it comes to the accessibility of Dance music.
At the same time, here's some food for thought - countries like Holland or Romania, that are currently well served by Dance stations, did not have such terrestrial outlets in the 70s when many Disco stations popped up all over the US, nor did they have Top 40/Dance stations of the kind that we witnessed in the second half of the 80s.
Let's also not forget that New York doesn't have a pure Hard Rock or pure Modern Rock station, nor a Country outlet. The Hip Hop stations in town also play some uptempo R&B and some ballads, meaning they realize they can't just play 12 Rap songs in a row. So when you think about it, Party actually does a great job of playing the big and accessible commercial Dance hits, alongside other big Rhythmic Pop hits.

If the biggest testing records on Z-100, 103.5 KTU, and Radio Now 92.3 were Dance records, if a station like Party can achieve good ratings, and if many of the top selling songs on Itunes become Dance hits, then we can really think about launching a pure Dance station in places like New York and Miami. In the meantime, we need to ENCOURAGE other stations around the country to follow in Party's footsteps and give a significant amount of airplay to at least 10 current Dance records.

For thoese wanting their pure Dance fix I'd suggest satellite radio, listening online, or downloading podcasts of all the big DJs (such as Tiesto, David Guetta, Above & Beyond, etc.).

Chrles I agree with you. Rhythmic stations that are heavy on dance are the beginning of things. This goes back to my comment that the dance community is its own worst enemy. Party is a good station, its going to help gain new fans of dance music. I dont know how many students at our school that were pure hip hop artist now love our station. Hip-hop and dance can work together. Heck so can Alternative and dance. Just look at Cobra Starship.

Oh and if want to hear David Guetta on the air Z889 has him in the mix every Friday at 10 pm www.Z889.org

Here is my final thought. If you want more dance records on the radio, then we need more hit dance records. Just because someone puts out a dance record doesnt mean a dance station should play it. Radio stations need to play the best records, not records that are ok