Las Vegas has another oldies station, KOOL 102 as of 12/31/10

[DoubleC]

Try My Station Real Oldies 1600 at www.realoldies1600.com we have a large yet focused playlist, listen for a week and you will hear a great mix of 50's,60's and 70's

 

[DouglasB]

How often we forget that as lovers of radio (professionals or not) that this is a business which relies on advertising revenue to survive and profit. The general audience only knows what they like and what they are familiar with, and often do not have the deep knowledge and love of radio as we do.

 

[oldies76]

The general audience only knows what they like and what they are familiar with, and often do not have the deep knowledge and love of radio as we do.

Exactly....the big reason for this, is that these stations have played basically the same darn thing over and over and over again and these audiences have accepted these songs as ones they are most comfortable with. In other words....you spoon feed someone the same thing everyday, they'll be used to it for life, like a child being taught at home or in school.

People that grew up in the 60's or 70's KNOW what was released back then and mostly expect that now. It's the younger end of the 25-54 demo listening now, that have a limited knowledge of what REALLY was popular in the old days and have accepted current limited and repetitive playlists as a good source of oldies today. To them, this is acceptable. To us, the older demos...it is not and we're paying the price to some extent.


Fortunately, there are still a few good stations out there and other sources that cater to our demands and likes of older music.

 

[oldies76]

The general audience only knows what they like and what they are familiar with, and often do not have the deep knowledge and love of radio as we do.

A great radio station would consider any of the songs from the past as songs that could be aired today. All songs are game, especially the upper end charters. A local station here in town tonight, played "Driver's Seat" from 1979 on a retro show. A very obscure song, played in 2011 on a Saturday night. Now that's radio!!

 

[DouglasB]

A great radio station would consider any of the songs from the past as songs that could be aired today.

A great radio station that managers or owners demand be successful would only play songs that their testing indicated would deliver the audience demographics they desire. And that's part of the problem......radio today is so over-researched and over analyzed, we only hear what a narrow sliver of the audience wants. The narrower the sliver, the smaller the play list.

 

[davideduardo]

And that's part of the problem......radio today is so over-researched and over analyzed, we only hear what a narrow sliver of the audience wants. The narrower the sliver, the smaller the play list.

The reality is just the opposite. If you narrow the target of a station you will see more songs "that everyone likes." When you research, let's say, a 25-year-wide target like 25-49, many songs will not pass because there are far fewer songs that a 25 year old and a 49 year old like in common and to the same degree. But if you target 35-44 primary, you will get lots more songs that everyone in the group likes, because the group has much more in common on every level.

And, as mentioned a number of times, "research" is just a term for asking listeners what they like and dislike. How often is too often to consult the listeners?

And "today" radio is less researched than any point in the last several decades, because research is quite expensive and radio is far off in billings and things like research and promotion are often the first to go to cut expenses. So if lists are shorter over the last few years, it's likely due to a lack of research and "playing it safe" rather than the opposite.

 

[johnsummers]

Wait! I think I'm playing "Saturday In The Park" by Chicago next....(lol)...at least I know people are listening. ;D

 

[semoochie]

"KRTH 101 is by far, one of the worst ever to date, such a joke." I'd just about kill for K-Earth's playlist up here! The last I checked, just about every other song was from the 60s. The biggest problem I have with Classic Rock is that I've discovered that over multiple listenings, I'm just not that fond of the 70s. It almost makes me long for "Teen Angel". javascript:void(0);

 

[oldies76]

The last I checked, just about every other song was from the 60s.

The good news is that they still play 60's..the not so good news...it's the SAME 60's and a limited selection at best, mainly some motown classics, Beatles and the usuals: "Brown Eyed Girl", "Unchained Melody" and "Oh, Pretty Woman".

 

[JbeJay]

> "it's the SAME 60's and a limited selection at best"

Question for oldies76 and like-minded others:

If playing (what you consider) a "limited selection" is a bad idea, why does it work so well?

To use KRTH for an example, even in the midst of the Christmas-music onslaught down the dial, they held in the four shares with a cume of a couple million and are growing even among younger adults (18-34) as well as their 35+ core.

Would you consider the possibility that a "limited selection" of the popular favorites (a result of their listener research) is part of what keeps them so successful?

 

[hornet61]

> "it's the SAME 60's and a limited selection at best"

Question for oldies76 and like-minded others:

If playing (what you consider) a "limited selection" is a bad idea, why does it work so well?

To use KRTH for an example, even in the midst of the Christmas-music onslaught down the dial, they held in the four shares with a cume of a couple million and are growing even among younger adults (18-34) as well as their 35+ core.

Would you consider the possibility that a "limited selection" of the popular favorites (a result of their listener research) is part of what keeps them so successful?

cause it's the only show in town , thats why "it is working", and working is your term not mine, cause It ain't working..... Cause we have no alternatives, or should I say, had no alternatives.....like I have said before, the only good (oldies)programming is on the net....and now comes all the negative comments about revenue, that the net is a hobbist alternative, well these hobbists are more creative that the ones running the K-Earths of the world, but, if you look real close alot of the legendary programmers are programming alot of these net stations, that is why they are so good, so becareful who you call a hobbist or wannabe........Like I said all the good programming is on The net, period ...K-Earth sucks ...I'll take Art Laboe all day and night...Oldies radio is dead not the Demographic....outdated thinking and programming has sunk it...going to Classic hits format is just a way of upgrading the library by a decade and a half without have to be competent at programming. Just follow the same old tired formula ,but ,hey now you are hearing new stuff from 1974-1984...,,......oldies76 and like-minded others - forgive them for they know.........

 

[semoochie]

In my previous post, I said "Classic Rock" when I meant "Classic Hits".

 

[kenb]

Oldies 76, I will admit that I remember and liked Drivers Seat. However, I don't want to hear it on a station programmed like KOOL 102 Las Vegas. I want the late 50's-60's and early 70's, with the emphasis being ALL the 1960's -- from beginning to the end of the decade. That is when I grew up, listening to my Six Transistor radio, DX'ing major market stations in San Francisco & L.A. I lived in the Bay Area and listened to KYA, KEWB, KFRC & KLIV. From L.A., I listened to KRLA, KFWB, & KHJ at night. Early in the decade, we had a wonderful mix of music: Pop, Rock, Country, Soul and then later, the British Invasion, Folk & early metal sounds on the album rock stations starting on FM. You heard all the hits on the top 40 stations. So to me, an oldies station that I want to listen to will play this mix. I am a radio junkie and for me, the switch by Summit Broadcasting in Las Vegas from Talk to Oldies is a "Bonanza" for listeners like me.

 

[oldies76]

Question for oldies76 and like-minded others:

If playing (what you consider) a "limited selection" is a bad idea, why does it work so well?

Would you consider the possibility that a "limited selection" of the popular favorites (a result of their listener research) is part of what keeps them so successful?

This reasoning has been explained to me by others several times, since I began posting several years ago. To this date, even with the debates in the past, I find it a mystery as to why the average people only enjoy 400 songs, played over and over and over? Honestly, I don't get it....but hey, that's radio. Believe me, with my 4700+ songs in my rock era collection...I'm satisfied...Just wish radio would do the same, to an extent.

 

[oldies76]

and are growing even among younger adults (18-34) as well as their 35+ core.

Would you consider the possibility that a "limited selection" of the popular favorites (a result of their listener research) is part of what keeps them so successful?

The 18's to 34's have really limited knowledge of what really existed in the 60's and 70's or even the late 50's. They only know certain songs from those years from their parents, other friends who have a similar interest or stations like KRTH who feed them the same music everyday or every weekend. So yes, they may like the Beatles or the Temptations or Van Morrison or even the Stones, but do they know Billy J Kramer, Billy Joe Royal, Jewel Akens or the Shangri-las, probably not. My point is: there are so many wonderful and great tunes out there that NEVER get played and if they did, I think the 18's to 34's and others would enjoy them just as much. It's called variety and not being so narrowly focused on one group of repeated songs.

 

[oldies76]

I think, in growing up during radio's heydey....it was fun to hear the top hits played or to hear wonderful, memorable radio specialties that lasted a full holiday weekend. Those were the days to be sure. Now in recent years, to hear most of these songs growing up, as classic hits, seems to be a hard task to accomplish at the least. Sure, there are the "legit" responses..testing this, testing that, cume this, ratings that, 25-54 this, 55+ that and that's fine and dandy. But why must it be that way? Only the execs can answer that.

It's one thing to hear song after song on your mp3 player or on a 3 hour reel to reel tape, but it's golden to hear them on the radio, even as classic hits, today. And to me, 400 "staple" songs spanning four or five decades of music, played every week, just doesn't cut it at all.

 

[DouglasB]

And that's part of the problem......radio today is so over-researched and over analyzed, we only hear what a narrow sliver of the audience wants. The narrower the sliver, the smaller the play list.

The reality is just the opposite. If you narrow the target of a station you will see more songs "that everyone likes." When you research, let's say, a 25-year-wide target like 25-49, many songs will not pass because there are far fewer songs that a 25 year old and a 49 year old like in common and to the same degree. But if you target 35-44 primary, you will get lots more songs that everyone in the group likes, because the group has much more in common on every level.

And, as mentioned a number of times, "research" is just a term for asking listeners what they like and dislike. How often is too often to consult the listeners?

And "today" radio is less researched than any point in the last several decades, because research is quite expensive and radio is far off in billings and things like research and promotion are often the first to go to cut expenses. So if lists are shorter over the last few years, it's likely due to a lack of research and "playing it safe" rather than the opposite.

David, I would not argue with your assertions as they do reflect radio today. I would ask, though, when we refer to "safe" songs that comprise the "400" safe song library that has been mentioned in this entertaining thread....just how were these songs deemed "safe"? Perhaps research done years ago when station had the resources to test, eh? And if that is the case, how can they be deemed "safe" in today's environment. Maybe that is the genesis of the "stale" argument we hear from regular listeners and aficionados alike

 

[kenb]

Today KOOL 102 played Mr. Deingly Sad by the Critters. For those of you complaining that "KOOL TYPE STATIONS" play only the big hits over and over, The Critter song was out in 8/13/66 and peaked at #18, on the Billboard top 100 chart, according to Joel Whitburn. This is what I like about KOOL. I'm tired of stations (KKLZ/96.3 in Vegas) playing the tired tested hits. I like the ones you don't/haven't heard on the radio, for quite a while.

 

[hornet61]

Today KOOL 102 played Mr. Deingly Sad by the Critters. For those of you complaining that "KOOL TYPE STATIONS" play only the big hits over and over, The Critter song was out in 8/13/66 and peaked at #18, on the Billboard top 100 chart, according to Joel Whitburn. This is what I like about KOOL. I'm tired of stations (KKLZ/96.3 in Vegas) playing the tired tested hits. I like the ones you don't/haven't heard on the radio, for quite a while.

#18(peaked at 17) is not a hit ?...a bigger coup would have been to play Younger Girl by the Critters or Loving Spoonful...

are they playing
1. Morning Girl - Neon Philharmonic #17
2. I Will always Think about you - New Colony Six #22
3. Run Baby Run - Newbeats #22 (probably playing Bread and Butter #2)
4. Ain't Gonna Lie - Keith #39 or his bigger hit 98.6 #7
5. Boxtop - Neon Rainbow#24, cry like a baby #2, soul deep #18....I'll bet they are playing The Letter #1...

All of the above were played day and night on KOMA...and I could go down the line with the same Billbord book and find 1,000 within the TOP 40..that were played on the big stations but have mysteriously disappeared , probably not because they didn't test well....they were probably not tested at all..therein lies the problem the testers have to know what they are doing

 

[davideduardo]

David, I would not argue with your assertions as they do reflect radio today. I would ask, though, when we refer to "safe" songs that comprise the "400" safe song library that has been mentioned in this entertaining thread....just how were these songs deemed "safe"? Perhaps research done years ago when station had the resources to test, eh? And if that is the case, how can they be deemed "safe" in today's environment. Maybe that is the genesis of the "stale" argument we hear from regular listeners and aficionados alike

Well, since the average PPM market classic hits station has around 700 to 800 songs in the regular rotation library, that "400 song library" just does not exist.

Stations that can't do research today due to the economy or budgets tend to use the songs that always tested as a base. We all know songs that come and go in tests... play them a little, they burn... rest them, they recover, so those may be used sparingly as well. And stations using older research will probably slice off the songs with older demo appeal to some extent. And they will often get the use of research used in a larger market in the same company... often one fairly nearby... to use for additional criteria.

The stations in classic hits forats that do conduct research that are in PPM markets tend to not research the P1's (heavy, first preference listeners) but instead the ones that don't use the station as much and are more sensitive to less than broad appeal songs. In other words, the P1's will like anything you play, but the p2's are fussier. And that is the reason why deeper cuts are not played (outside of dead daypart specialty shows) on the more successful stations in the format.

I can't address oldies in the 40 PPM markets, since there is no really significant true oldies station in any of them (closest being WLS-FM, maybe... even the Atlanta pseudo oldies station flipped a while back to a more 70's approach).