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Last nights terrible late night -overnight show on 610 WIP

ESPN NEEDED a Phila stick and without having to pay the huge bucks to buy an am, they found a desperate place like 950 to take the programming to push what Bristol Buffons thinks makes a big difference because of the "brand name". The ESPN brand doesn't matter unless you're looking for highlites at night. If you don't have good talk talent, no ESPN radio show will get ratings in a great sports town like Philly. They need to hire Bruno, pay the dollars and make some serious impact in morning drive. I said it before, the ONLY way 950 gets it done. Bruno vs Cataldi and Missanelli vs Eskin - end of story!
 
950 has to carry Mike and Mike which is fine. There is no local morning show in the country that can come to Philly and get the idiots that listen to WIP to change over. I am a huge sports fan and like local sports talk over national, but cant stomach Angelo and Co. I think its amature hour at its finest. Its a waste of money to even try (Unless they got Bruno, which ain't happening), the should spend their money elsewhere. They can get good young talented guys to work at reasonable prices and mix them in with the names they have to make it work.

They unfortunaly HAVE to carry Tirico and Van Pelt, which is a JOKE. How can ESPN tell a city like Philly they HAVE to carry that show...its HORRENDUS. It is MUCH better with Van Pelt, but Tirico is unacceptable in a market like Philly.

950 needs to, I STRESS, needs to tell ESPN they are done with Tirico and Van Pelt...add the last hout of Mike and Mike.

6-10 - Mike and Mike

10 - 1 - Jody and a Partner, he needs a partner (though I think he is gone at the end of his deal in SEPT)

1- 3 - Get a known newspaper guy (maybe rotate them depending on the season) who doesnt need alot money due to the fact that he has a newspaper salary (I think Mike Sielski would be good) and a younger radio guy to carry the show..have the newspaper guy turn the young guy into a known name in the market.

3-7 Mike Missinelli and a Partner, Mike is great with a partner, w/o one he is only good, and good isnt good enough to dent Eskin, talking to his producer (who is a brutal listen) doesnt count as a partner.

7-10 - Anything is better then what ya got. Go back to ESPN if you have to. That show is a disgrace to Philadelphia (so is Ike Reese BTW, how can Philly sports radio at night be that pathetic). They had a Eagles blogger on as a guest the other night..come on, this is Philly, there are like 15 guys who cover the team to pick from, then they had a college football guy from a site that nobody ever heard of...this is Philly, not Columbus, Ohio guys. And I only know this b/c I saw them podcasted on the website.

10-2am - yes, a local show..one guy who is compelling and isnt all sports. A young guy who knows the market and can hanlde a four hour show alone. Its a tough job. Think Colin Cowherd w/o all the college football talk.

1-6 - Yes, a local show - two-man team. I got an idea, how about the guys who do the locker rooom now, they would be great here, when nobody would be listening. But local is key and the full Mike and Mike and Mike keeps ESPN happy.

Weekends.

SAT
Must be live from 10am til 7pm on Saturday - use a guy like Michael Bradley and Tolly from 10-3 and Use the 10 -2am guys and 1-6 guys on a rotation from 3-7. One week they work 7 days, the next they work 5.

SUN
Must be live from 8am-1 with Eagles stuff, Live after Eagles - around the league like WIP used to do before they got Eagles games, no WW1 games expect Monday night and Sunday night and Thursday games.

Thoughts ?
 
Just one man's opinion...

I would not add the last hour of Mike and Mike...unless you'd have Jody (either solo or with a partner) take it from 10-3. I think Missanelli is better by himself than with a partner...unless you can lure Steve Fredericks out of retirement. Imagine, the S&M show back again. How cool would that be? I think the Locker Room guys would be better from 10P-2A or 11P-3A, depending on how you'd want to structure the shifts. At 7P, I'd like to hear a guy like Jack McCaffrey. Or, since Tolly is off of TV these days, I wouldn't mind hearing him in that spot.

I agree with your opinion on weekends. They MUST get more local, and get rid of the non-sports paid talk shows, especially during football season. On Sunday mornings, as you get ready for the Birds, you'll hear real estate talk on 950. That has to change.
 
Like all of the ideas, except you can't concede mornings to WIP but not spending the money to compete. Putting "young guys" on doesn't matter. Philly is a provincial town, but an OPTION is what people want. Mike and Mike ain't an option; it's a sterile, PC show which super-serves New York and Chicago where Disney has dropped millions of dollars to buy those sticks, unlike 950, which is just an affiliate they need to show the world they are in the top markets.

Angelo is tired and stale- and more importantly - not even a Philly guy! You put a guy like Bruno on and I guarantee he does serious damage to WIP. I remember when Bruno did mornings at the old 1210 WCAU in the early 90's. WWDB was the only talker on FM and had 3 shares. Bruno was able to overtake and beat DB in less than a year and flip flop the talk ratings before CBS pullled the plug on CAU and simulcast oldies on OGL.
 
I did mention that if they could get Bruno, then go for it in the mornings. Otherwise, I dont see a viable morning "show" or team that could be brought in to Philly. You cant bring in a top show from another market, won't work here if they arent Philly guys. Angelo isnt a Philly guy, but everyone else on that show is.


I would be willing to hear what ideas for a morning show you would have, but I cant think of a viable on at this time.

Henson and Foley
Bradley and Foley

Were they the right teams...not even close...but I think Bradley had morning show energy but wasnt the right lead guy, Henson was just awful.

Even when Missinelli and Conklin, two name guys tried morings on a FM stick they couldnt compete with WIP in the morning, I just dont see local mornings being a smart fincial decsions. Pump your money into being a solid LOCAL station the rest of the day, even though mornings are most important.
 
Missanellii and Conklin didn't work at MMR because MMR listeners want rock, not sports talk on FM. Plus, Missanelli wasn't a morning talent and that played out quickly.
 
Funny you say that, I cant remember the last time I listened to WIP.

I was just saying that the other day, I used to literlly listen from 10a-7p. Even when I was a huge fan of the station I didnt like the morning show...but that said. WIP used to give you info, you felt that the host had info that other people didnt. Now, if your not boys or cuz's with the midday show, your not getting anything.

Some of WIP Bests times ;

Mac & Mac
Mike & Steve
Steve at night alone
Mike and Howard...if anything the tension was great

I fell bad for Macnow, he wants to do real sports-talk, Gargano can't. Howard is Howard, was never a fan, I am more a Mikey Miss guy, and BOTH night shows are REAL BAD.

So to make a point, I am a sports-talk radio fan, just wish I could get a decent product somewhere.
 
How can you say that Macnow wants to do real sports talk, when most of his show is topics not relating to sports. How about movie club for men, his cheesesteak and pizza contests and other useless topics. He doesnt know that much about sports, has no personality and is stealing money from WIP. He should have stayed at night, because he adds nothing to the midday show.
 
Last night's overnight offering was some kid paired with Don Makee. I always liked Makee (I think that's how you spell it) is strong enough to carry the show by himself, and has done it before (Doughnuts with Don), tho' the kid came off as very unpolished. Ike Reese should be like what G Cobb is, a host during football season. Listening to G talk hockey was nothing short of a disaster ("Should there be hockey in the 'Hood?" was the title of one post-football season show).

I agree with the points about WPEN needing more local programming and perhaps a wider sports focus on the weekends. Let me address the latter first: It's simple, MOVE the extracirricular stuff BACK so that you can start the sports coverage about 10AM. WPEN should NOT dump the shows altogether, as they are the only things that might be generating revenue (I believe most of it is brokered). Another hamstring might be that 950AM is required to carry a certain amount of ESPN programming to qualify for the ESPN branding. Otherwise, they could have just stuck with "Sports Talk 950".

I still think they should have kept FOX. JT the Brick could crank up the Philly fans by tooling on the fans (him being from Long Island and a no excuses Giants fan). Overnights with Ben Mallar, while they focus more on the West Coast teams (studios in LA), they do spread it around and it's a compelling listen. It's a lot better than what WIP has been passing as quality overnight programming (save Big Daddy and Don Makee, of course).
 
@ Rob,

I agree with some of your points, but like it or not, ESPN is the name people recognize - not FOX. Your right ESPN makes 950 carry a certain about of ESPN programming, thee require that of all their stations. ESPN should not however MAKE them carry Tirico and Van Pelt. Thats just not a major makret station in a important lead-in daypart.

Problem 950 has is you have Missinelli, but no quality lead-in. They would be better off going Mike and Mike 6-10, Colin (who I think is a great show, but not really Philly, too much college) from 10-12, then Jody leading in for Mike from 12-3. Makes no sense to break-up your local shows. The fact that they have that ESPN show on and a night show proves they have to carry Tiricio and Van Pelt.

I would assume though, if that day-part doesnt rate at all and they cant sell it, they could replace it.

Do you know of any area talents that could be used on 950 if they add programming, are there any sports-talkers around that have decent talent ?
 
Harvey,
I live in Atlanta, wife is from Philly and do a lot of business in Philly so we are there often.
The top sports talk guy in Atlanta is John Kincade, who works afternoon drive on The Fan.
He has his own weekend show on ESPN Radio and fills in for Colin most of the time.
He is from Philly and talks about it all the time, so in my rental car my wife and I turned on 950 a few Sundays back and they don't even carry it, let alone sports programming. I think it was real estate.
I doubt that 950 could ever afford him, but he would be much more high profile than anything they currently have.
Philly guy, national talent and I can tell you he has a more proven ratings history than anyone at 950.
I expected him to be landing at WIP by now, but he recently signed a new deal in Atlanta and with ESPN Radio.
950 can't begin to sniff 610 until they step up and hire top proven talent. They have too much to overcome.
950 can't be required to carry Tiricos show. They can be made to carry Mike and Mike.
We are buying a condo in Philly so my back and forth to NY and Philly will be less of a hassle.
I figure that 610 will get the majority of my listening time until 950 steps up.
 
Good solid points by all, but 950 doesn't want to spend any money and that is the bottom line.
Kincade started out as a caller to Tony Bruno and other local Philly shows and has worked his way into a solid career. Doubt he's making big bucks in a crappy sports market like Atlanta and we all know ESPN doesn't pay jack to weekend talent anymore, so 950 wouldn't have to come up with huge bucks to get him out of ATL.
You've gotta have a morning and afternoon drive show to compete and until 950 steps up and adds a major-marketable talent like a Bruno to compete with WIP, they've got no chance to win.
 
HarveyBrowning said:
@ Rob,

I agree with some of your points, but like it or not, ESPN is the name people recognize - not FOX. Your right ESPN makes 950 carry a certain about of ESPN programming, thee require that of all their stations. ESPN should not however MAKE them carry Tirico and Van Pelt. Thats just not a major makret station in a important lead-in daypart.

Problem 950 has is you have Missinelli, but no quality lead-in. They would be better off going Mike and Mike 6-10, Colin (who I think is a great show, but not really Philly, too much college) from 10-12, then Jody leading in for Mike from 12-3. Makes no sense to break-up your local shows. The fact that they have that ESPN show on and a night show proves they have to carry Tiricio and Van Pelt.

I would assume though, if that day-part doesnt rate at all and they cant sell it, they could replace it.

Do you know of any area talents that could be used on 950 if they add programming, are there any sports-talkers around that have decent talent ?
Click to expand...

Now, there is the dilemna. Obviously, it wouldn't be "The Locker Room" (nee The 700 Level Sports Fans). I could see them moving Jody Mac ONLY IF the new Tony Bruno Show is syndicated and available only before 12 Noon. Carrying Bruno on tape delay would be a huge strike against 'PEN. Plus, I think the only reason they carry the Tirico/Van Pelt trainwreck is a commitment to the Dan Patrick Show.
 
It will be interesting to see who subs for Jody Mac as he recuperates from heart surgery starting next week. Will 950 go local, or use Cowherd?
 
Hater,
I can't speak for exactly what he makes on the Fan in Atlanta (I am affiliated with another 50,000 watt news talker) but I know that he is the highest paid host in the market as per a piece just recently written in the Atlanta Business Chronicle.
The radio markets (ATL and PHL) are very comparable and his ratings with men 25-54 are stronger than his counterparts at 610 do in their market. He loses to our guy, Hannity, and a few urban FM's.
There is no way he is pulling in less than $275,000-300,000 between his local and ESPN gigs.
From what I know of the WPEN management, they are most likely getting Jodie and Missinelli for approximately that price.
You are way off on your market analysis.
 
Kincade wanted no parts of 950, they asked, he declined. He had discussions with WIP, but he was going to have to give up his ESPN National work and he wasnt willing to do that.

To be honest, I like John, but not a fan of his work, I have met him and spoken to him professionally a few times. But when I hear, "Im John Kincade filling in for Colin", I am dissapointed.

No, 950 has another issue, with Jody being out, but maybe its a blessing...they get someone to fill-in then keep that guy/team there and bring Jody back as the lead-in for Mike Miss...Its football season, the budget has to be expenaded a bit right????

BTW...Jody and Miss aint making 275k, maybe 125-175, but 275...nah.
 
Good insight Harvey.
I knew that WIP had discussions with Kincade from the piece in the Atlanta paper, but did not know about 950's interest.
He is definitely an acquired taste and can be an extremely polarizing figure.
That may come from the fact that I am more of a Southerner and my wife more speaks his language since she too grew up In Philly. Many days I feel like you do, but others I am extremely enteratained. His ESPN work is actually much more to my liking than what he does in Atlanta full time.
I think he is a very honest host, but loves to rile people up and can be a bit intimidating at times.
My criticisms aside, he has my respect as a proven ratings winner and he definitely understands the business and how to work it.
Listening to WIP hosts and even more 950, I don't think any talent currently employed by either station has more talent or ability than him. I cross paths with him occasionally professionally and always do find him likable.
Does not surprise me in the least that he did not want the 950 overture. I always figured if Eskin or Cataldi ever leave or retire that he would be one of the first calls placed.
 
atlsportsnut said:
Good insight Harvey.
I knew that WIP had discussions with Kincade from the piece in the Atlanta paper, but did not know about 950's interest.
He is definitely an acquired taste and can be an extremely polarizing figure.
That may come from the fact that I am more of a Southerner and my wife more speaks his language since she too grew up In Philly. Many days I feel like you do, but others I am extremely enteratained. His ESPN work is actually much more to my liking than what he does in Atlanta full time.
I think he is a very honest host, but loves to rile people up and can be a bit intimidating at times.
My criticisms aside, he has my respect as a proven ratings winner and he definitely understands the business and how to work it.
Listening to WIP hosts and even more 950, I don't think any talent currently employed by either station has more talent or ability than him. I cross paths with him occasionally professionally and always do find him likable.
Does not surprise me in the least that he did not want the 950 overture. I always figured if Eskin or Cataldi ever leave or retire that he would be one of the first calls placed.
Click to expand...


That might explain why he is not at 950AM. Remember their moniker before ESPN: "We break stories, not b***s". They probably wanted him to tame down his act and he quite politely said "no dice". Of course, that went out the window with Missanelli (as well it should).
 
atlsportsnut said:
Does not surprise me in the least that he did not want the 950 overture. I always figured if Eskin or Cataldi ever leave or retire that he would be one of the first calls placed.
Click to expand...

Even if one of them left, Gargano would end up replacing for that drivetime, anyway.
 
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