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Limbaugh/Premier Radio smelling of fear?

T

tbetz

Premiere Radio just put out another press release comparing Limbaugh's numbers to Franken's, among others.

This press release, relying as it does on 12+ individual market numbers and 25-54 aggregate numbers (carefully omitting any mention of 25-54 individual market numbers), is clearly counter propaganda to the Air America press release about newcomer Franken beating long-established Limbaugh 25-54 in two very specific markets, Portland OR, and San Francisco CA.

Of course, the 10-market and 25-market aggregations cited in the Premiere press release include markets where Franken doesn't even air, so it's a slightly dishonest apples-to-oranges comparison.

Considering how young the Air America product is, and how underpowered its stations are in most markets, the fact that Limbaugh feels threatened enough to drive Premiere Radio to play this sort of statistical PR game against Franken is a tribute to Air America's success so far -- or just evidence of Limbaugh's dawning recognition of his inevitable slide from the top of the heap.<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>
 
don't get your point, this premiere p.r. is released every quarter.

> Premiere Radio just put out another press release comparing
> Limbaugh's numbers to Franken's, among others.
>
> This press release, relying as it does on 12+ individual
> market numbers and 25-54 aggregate numbers (carefully
> omitting any mention of 25-54 individual market numbers), is
> clearly counter propaganda to the Air America press release
> about newcomer Franken beating long-established Limbaugh
> 25-54 in two very specific markets, Portland OR, and San
> Francisco CA.
>
> Of course, the 10-market and 25-market aggregations cited in
> the Premiere press release include markets where Franken
> doesn't even air, so it's a slightly dishonest
> apples-to-oranges comparison.
>
> Considering how young the Air America product is, and how
> underpowered its stations are in most markets, the fact that
> Limbaugh feels threatened enough to drive Premiere Radio to
> play this sort of statistical PR game against Franken is a
> tribute to Air America's success so far -- or just evidence
> of Limbaugh's dawning recognition of his inevitable slide
> from the top of the heap.
>
 
Distorting the Facts

> Premiere Radio just put out another press release comparing
> Limbaugh's numbers to Franken's, among others.

AMONG OTHERS? THE PRESS RELEASE COMPARES RUSH TO FRANKEN, SCHULTZ AND SPRINGER. ARE YOU FRANKEN'S PR AGENT? WHY DO YOU IGNORE SCHULTZ AND SPRINGER?

IF YOU KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT RADIO RATINGS, YOU WOULD BE AWARE THAT ARBITRON REPORTS THE MIDDAY DAYPART BETWEEN 10 AM AND 3 PM. PROGRAM BY PROGRAM BREAKDOWNS ARE NOT AVAILABLE. FRANKEN'S NUMBERS ARE LUMPED WITH THOSE FOR SPRINGER (IN THE EAST) AND SCHULTZ (IN THE WEST).

>
> This press release, relying as it does on 12+ individual
> market numbers and 25-54 aggregate numbers (carefully
> omitting any mention of 25-54 individual market numbers), is
> clearly counter propaganda to the Air America press release
> about newcomer Franken beating long-established Limbaugh
> 25-54 in two very specific markets, Portland OR, and San
> Francisco CA.

TALK ABOUT PROPAGANDA! YOU MAKE THIS STUFF UP ALL BY YOURSELF? THIS IS A PRESS RELEASE AIMED AT ADVERTISERS - NOT POLITICAL JUNKIES. DO YOU READ MINDS? HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT PREMIERE'S INTENTION IS IN SENDING THIS OUT.

BESIDES, CLEAR CHANNEL WINS EITHER WAY. THEY OWN THOSE STATIONS IN SAN FRANCISCO AND PORTLAND TO WHICH YOU REFER.

>
> Of course, the 10-market and 25-market aggregations cited in
> the Premiere press release include markets where Franken
> doesn't even air, so it's a slightly dishonest
> apples-to-oranges comparison.
>

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS SLIGHTLY DISHONEST. AS YOU POINT OUT , ITS AN AGGREGATE. ADVERTISERS WHO BUY NATIONAL SPOTS ON THE THREE PROGRESSIVE HOSTS MENTIONED ONLY REACH THE NUMBERS CITED. THE REASONS DON'T MATTER.

AND IF YOU'D READ THE ENTIRE PRESS RELEASE, YOU'D KNOW CLEAR CHANNEL DID PROVIDE BREAK-OUTS FOR NEW YORK, LA AND CHICAGO.

http://www.premiereradio.com/news/view/71.html

> Considering how young the Air America product is, and how
> underpowered its stations are in most markets, the fact that
> Limbaugh feels threatened enough to drive Premiere Radio to
> play this sort of statistical PR game against Franken is a
> tribute to Air America's success so far -- or just evidence
> of Limbaugh's dawning recognition of his inevitable slide
> from the top of the heap.
>

AGAIN, HOW DO YOU KNOW HOW LIMBAUGH FEELS? WHAT MAKES YOU THINK HE HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH PRESS RELEASE?

EXCUSES DON'T CHANGE FACTS. LIMBAUGH STILL DOMINATES TALK RADIO, FOR BETTER OR WORSE. YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT. I MAY NOT LIKE IT. BUT THAT'S HOW IT IS.
 
It actually looks like this press release may have the opposite effect. I was shocked at how high the numbers were for Franken! I was even shocked by the Springer and Schultz numbers, especially since the true believers are not great fans of these guys. The stats are a great example that liberal talk definitely has a base...tens of thousands of listeners.. not bad for lower power less established stations to tap into (perhaps the same ones Rush "saved" years ago and have since been dumped). Since Rush has reached a place were his affiliates overlap and he has super powerful stations, what is Premiere's point? Do they want more stations to take Rush? Do they fear some stations will drop him for liberal talk? That's insane. Can a small station get Rush if the 50kW station in the town 50 miles away already has him? Would they want to play the same thing being played on the super powerful station- would anyone tune in when they have been listening to the powerhouse for years? The people running those big stations know that Rush delivers a big audience and wouldn't dream of dropping him. A little cherry picked stats to refute the cherry picked stats of an AAR press release..? Either something is up or they are way over-reacting.

Now, how is Rush doing versus Hannity and the rest of the right wing talkers...? That is his real competition and they could bump him in the right markets.

PS- Sorry about all the rhetorical questions....

> Premiere Radio just put out another press release comparing
> Limbaugh's numbers to Franken's, among others.
>
> This press release, relying as it does on 12+ individual
> market numbers and 25-54 aggregate numbers (carefully
> omitting any mention of 25-54 individual market numbers), is
> clearly counter propaganda to the Air America press release
> about newcomer Franken beating long-established Limbaugh
> 25-54 in two very specific markets, Portland OR, and San
> Francisco CA.
>
> Of course, the 10-market and 25-market aggregations cited in
> the Premiere press release include markets where Franken
> doesn't even air, so it's a slightly dishonest
> apples-to-oranges comparison.
>
> Considering how young the Air America product is, and how
> underpowered its stations are in most markets, the fact that
> Limbaugh feels threatened enough to drive Premiere Radio to
> play this sort of statistical PR game against Franken is a
> tribute to Air America's success so far -- or just evidence
> of Limbaugh's dawning recognition of his inevitable slide
> from the top of the heap.
>
 
Re: Distorting the Facts

> > Premiere Radio just put out another press release
> > comparing Limbaugh's numbers to Franken's, among others.
>
> AMONG OTHERS? THE PRESS RELEASE COMPARES RUSH TO FRANKEN,
> SCHULTZ AND SPRINGER. ARE YOU FRANKEN'S PR AGENT? WHY DO
> YOU IGNORE SCHULTZ AND SPRINGER?

My, my, my. Touched a nerve, did we?<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>
 
> don't get your point, this premiere p.r. is released every
> quarter.

In the past, the press release has mentioned specific individual 25-54 market numbers. I found it odd that this time, none were mentioned.<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>
 
Re: Distorting the Facts

Yes. I hate liars.

>
> My, my, my. Touched a nerve, did we?
>
 
> It actually looks like this press release may have the
> opposite effect. I was shocked at how high the numbers were
> for Franken! I was even shocked by the Springer and Schultz
> numbers, especially since the true believers are not great
> fans of these guys. The stats are a great example that
> liberal talk definitely has a base...tens of thousands of
> listeners.. not bad for lower power less established
> stations to tap into (perhaps the same ones Rush "saved"
> years ago and have since been dumped). Since Rush has
> reached a place were his affiliates overlap and he has super
> powerful stations, what is Premiere's point? Do they want
> more stations to take Rush? Do they fear some stations will
> drop him for liberal talk? That's insane. Can a small
> station get Rush if the 50kW station in the town 50 miles
> away already has him?

Yes. Here in AL, he's on two big CC AMs in Birmingham and Gadsden (WERC and WAAX, which I think are actually only 5kW, but still have great signals at mid-day when his show airs) and also on two small hometown country FMs in Cullman and Guntersville (WKUL and WTWX) when those cities can receive one or both of the AM broadcasts.

He's has so many affiliates already that any station picking him up in the lower 48 now would almost certainly overlap with someone else. Also, most stations carrying him are either owned by CC or carry him because the owners agree with his ideology and wouldn't go progressive if Hell froze over. If progressive hosts started stomping conservative hosts silly in the ratings, maybe some of his major market affiliates that don't fall into those categories would flip, but that hasn't happened yet and such a major shift doesn't seem likely.

> Now, how is Rush doing versus Hannity and the rest of the
> right wing talkers...? That is his real competition and they
> could bump him in the right markets.

Still on top. His ratings may be sliding, but so are almost everyone else's.

>
> PS- Sorry about all the rhetorical questions....
>
> > Premiere Radio just put out another press release
> comparing
> > Limbaugh's numbers to Franken's, among others.
> >
> > This press release, relying as it does on 12+ individual
> > market numbers and 25-54 aggregate numbers (carefully
> > omitting any mention of 25-54 individual market numbers),
> is
> > clearly counter propaganda to the Air America press
> release
> > about newcomer Franken beating long-established Limbaugh
> > 25-54 in two very specific markets, Portland OR, and San
> > Francisco CA.
> >
> > Of course, the 10-market and 25-market aggregations cited
> in
> > the Premiere press release include markets where Franken
> > doesn't even air, so it's a slightly dishonest
> > apples-to-oranges comparison.
> >
> > Considering how young the Air America product is, and how
> > underpowered its stations are in most markets, the fact
> that
> > Limbaugh feels threatened enough to drive Premiere Radio
> to
> > play this sort of statistical PR game against Franken is a
>
> > tribute to Air America's success so far -- or just
> evidence
> > of Limbaugh's dawning recognition of his inevitable slide
> > from the top of the heap.
> >
>
 
Re: Distorting the Facts

With all due respect, I would be suprised if this was aimed at advertisers...If it were I would have thought they would compare Rush to his real competition- that is Ingraham, Hannity, Boortz and the rest...maybe versus other formats as well (like sports talk)? This looks like bad mouthing liberal talk, through and through. Aimed directly at Rush's listeners and the blogosphere. It is absolutely true...Rush is doing better than the liberal talkers but I am sure that advertisers pay for those bigger numbers, more and better station coverage etc. Anyone who wants to advertise on Rush will get plenty of opportunity to get the stats directly from Premiere.

> THIS IS A PRESS RELEASE AIMED AT ADVERTISERS -
> NOT POLITICAL JUNKIES.
 
Re: Distorting the Facts

> IF YOU KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT RADIO RATINGS, YOU WOULD BE AWARE
> THAT ARBITRON REPORTS THE MIDDAY DAYPART BETWEEN 10 AM AND 3
> PM. PROGRAM BY PROGRAM BREAKDOWNS ARE NOT AVAILABLE.
> FRANKEN'S NUMBERS ARE LUMPED WITH THOSE FOR SPRINGER (IN THE
> EAST) AND SCHULTZ (IN THE WEST).
>

In internet "netiquette", typing in caps is considered yelling, im sure you didnt intend us to think you were yelling, were you?

Taking into account what you just said, it also appears that Rush's ratings would also be broken down the same way..so his numbers are affected by others as well..going by your own words...thats a red herring to me..

Its a PR release, cherry picking is obvious to all when the data is coming from public relations people...they are promoting their respective host..but what AAR has been trying to show to the detriment of you and others who keep hammering on liberal radio is that the numbers are good for a year and a half of growth, and im sure they are constantly doing what the business side of AAR should be doing....attempting to grow ad revenue....

AAR knows and the world knows that Rush is the number one talker....but they sure aren't going to lay down and not say that Liberal Radio is catching on...which it is....
 
Re: Distorting the Facts

> AMONG OTHERS? THE PRESS RELEASE COMPARES RUSH TO FRANKEN,
> SCHULTZ AND SPRINGER. ARE YOU FRANKEN'S PR AGENT? WHY DO
> YOU IGNORE SCHULTZ AND SPRINGER?

Why are you SHOUTING? You sound HYSTERICAL.
 
Don't Know Much About...Ratings...

> IF YOU KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT RADIO RATINGS, YOU WOULD BE AWARE
> THAT ARBITRON REPORTS THE MIDDAY DAYPART BETWEEN 10 AM AND 3
> PM. PROGRAM BY PROGRAM BREAKDOWNS ARE NOT AVAILABLE.
> FRANKEN'S NUMBERS ARE LUMPED WITH THOSE FOR SPRINGER (IN THE
> EAST) AND SCHULTZ (IN THE WEST).

Apparently *you* are the one who doesn't know much about radio ratings, at least when it comes to big market ratings. Premiere's Friday press release contains very specific ratings (different for each program) for Limbaugh, Franken, Schultz, and Springer. Franken's numbers are definitely NOT "lumped with those for Springer...and Schultz."

http://www.premiereradio.com/news/view/74.html

> AND IF YOU'D READ THE ENTIRE PRESS RELEASE, YOU'D KNOW CLEAR
> CHANNEL DID PROVIDE BREAK-OUTS FOR NEW YORK, LA AND CHICAGO.

You're talking about a different press release than Tom was talking about.
Neither Premiere release mentions the markets where Franken actually beat Limbaugh in 25-54.
 
More Facts

I apologize for "shouting." My intent was to make my reply standout from the portions of the original post to which I was responding. In retrospect, boldface would have been better.

Cherry picking data is what all PR people do, those who work from Premiere - or for AAR.

There has been growth in progressive talk radio. Clear Channel knows it. They have no reason to deny it. They probably welcome it. They are a big part of the reason for it. No broadcaster is as heavily invested in progressive talk radio as Clear Channel. They own more progressive talk stations than anybody else (actually more than everybody else). Two of their executives started their own syndication company and immediately signed Ed Schultz. The leading progressive talk hosts are (or were) from Clear Channel stations: Thom Hartmann (KPOJ, Portland, OR), Stephanie Miller (was local on KFI, Los Angeles - now syndicated from KTLK, Los Angeles), Randi Rhodes (WJNO, West Palm Beach), Ed Schultz (KFGO, Fargo), Jerry Springer (WCKY, Cincinnati). Clear Channel is not the enemy. Don't be surprised when Premiere Radio puts some progressive hosts in their syndication roster.
 
Re: More Facts

> There has been growth in progressive talk radio. Clear
> Channel knows it. They have no reason to deny it. They
> probably welcome it. They are a big part of the reason for
> it. No broadcaster is as heavily invested in progressive
> talk radio as Clear Channel. They own more progressive talk
> stations than anybody else (actually more than everybody
> else). Two of their executives started their own
> syndication company and immediately signed Ed Schultz. The
> leading progressive talk hosts are (or were) from Clear
> Channel stations: Thom Hartmann (KPOJ, Portland, OR),
> Stephanie Miller (was local on KFI, Los Angeles - now
> syndicated from KTLK, Los Angeles), Randi Rhodes (WJNO, West
> Palm Beach), Ed Schultz (KFGO, Fargo), Jerry Springer (WCKY,
> Cincinnati). Clear Channel is not the enemy. Don't be
> surprised when Premiere Radio puts some progressive hosts in
> their syndication roster.


I never said Clear Channel was the enemy....i wish they would give AAR and other liberals more marketing...and of course better signals when possible.

I welcome premiere and other syndicators to keep adding more and more progressive hosts. I don't have a problem with that all. I want AAR to continue to succeed but I also want more and more progressive hosts across the nation...that coming from this true believer is the answer...the ability to offer a counter voice in all markets is the ultimate and more-effective goal...at this point if Jones or AAR or "NewCo" brings progressive radio forward and finds them stations that is great. Im hoping the next year leading up to the elections in 06 and 08 will lead to more focus (easy goal), better signal (im dreaming but happy to keep hoping for that), and an increased listenership (securing the continued long term survival).

Id like that progressive radio host list Mwebster and others submitted in recent posts to grow longer and longer.
 
Re: Distorting the Facts

> IF YOU KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT RADIO RATINGS, YOU WOULD BE AWARE
> THAT ARBITRON REPORTS THE MIDDAY DAYPART BETWEEN 10 AM AND 3
> PM. PROGRAM BY PROGRAM BREAKDOWNS ARE NOT AVAILABLE.
> FRANKEN'S NUMBERS ARE LUMPED WITH THOSE FOR SPRINGER (IN THE
> EAST) AND SCHULTZ (IN THE WEST).

This is just wrong. Hour-by-hour or quarter-hour by quarter-hour ratings are available if you want to pay for them. The following is from the Arbitron web site:

The Programmers Package delivers 15 programming reports that let you take control of your programming and promotion like never before.

Part of the popular Maximi$er software, these reports can help you find out
...when your listeners tune in or tune out to uncover weak spots in your own programming or in your competitor's lineup. Programmers Package tracks audience flow daypart by daypart, hour by hour or even to a quarter-hour at a time.
 
Re: More Facts

> No broadcaster is as heavily invested in progressive
> talk radio as Clear Channel. They own more progressive talk
> stations than anybody else (actually more than everybody
> else).

Huh? Air America says that 27 of its 70 affiliates are Clear Channel stations, but at least two of those CC stations also carry Limbaugh and other conservatives. Clear Channel has a couple of progressive talk stations that carry no Air America programming, but that hardly adds up to owning more progressive talk stations than everybody else combined.
 
Re: Distorting the Facts

> Yes. I hate liars.

Cite a single lie in my posting.

Others have already identified a couple of clinkers in your screaming reply.<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>
 
> This press release, relying as it does on 12+ individual
> market numbers and 25-54 aggregate numbers (carefully
> omitting any mention of 25-54 individual market numbers), is
> clearly counter propaganda to the Air America press release
> about newcomer Franken beating long-established Limbaugh
> 25-54 in two very specific markets, Portland OR, and San
> Francisco CA.

KSFO/SF is a weak station. They will always trounce KQKE by at least a factor of two in 6a-12a, but it is possible Franken could put up a fight there. Albeit the fact that he's on a slightly lesser signal, and that the CC talk cluster there basically serves as a witness protection program for its hosts.

> Of course, the 10-market and 25-market aggregations cited in
> the Premiere press release include markets where Franken
> doesn't even air, so it's a slightly dishonest
> apples-to-oranges comparison.

It's not dishonest. This isn't about fairness. If Franken isn't on in as many markets, that itself makes Premiere's point about Rush's success. How many shows are on in every rated market? One: Rush. If Franken wants to whine about Rush's numbers counting against him in markets where he doesn't air, he should tell AAR's Affiliate Sales department to get off their tails and sell his show to new stations. For some reason, Premiere seems to have an interest in taking out a disproportionate number of ads (print, web) than they've ever done for Rush before. But the point is that the nationwide listener count is what the AAR folks are after, to more or less say they beat Rush, and Franken's not close. Nor will he be until he realizes no one owes him a clearance anywhere. Same with Rush.
 
> He's has so many affiliates already that any station picking
> him up in the lower 48 now would almost certainly overlap
> with someone else. Also, most stations carrying him are
> either owned by CC or carry him because the owners agree
> with his ideology and wouldn't go progressive if Hell froze
> over. If progressive hosts started stomping conservative
> hosts silly in the ratings, maybe some of his major market
> affiliates that don't fall into those categories would flip,
> but that hasn't happened yet and such a major shift doesn't
> seem likely.

I don't believe that's so in the aggregate. Just as over 1,000 stations run Paul Harvey, it's not because the owners have a penchant for octagenarian commentators. Like it or not, Rush has become a household name and rather mainstream. Even top names like Hannity and Savage are very much considered a niche phenomenon for right-wing listeners, but Limbaugh has become less offensive by default over the years. He's a huge name that adds appeal to a station, particularly in more conservative rural areas. Al Franken or Jerry Springer, conversely, are seen as washed-up comedians and smut peddlers and have no instant cache on the radio, other than to deliver a niche-format show.

** And yes, liberals, conservative talk is a niche format as well, so please don't get all excited.
 
Re: More Facts

> I never said Clear Channel was the enemy....i wish they
> would give AAR and other liberals more marketing...and of
> course better signals when possible.

They'll get them when they deserve them. Rush has to schlep through Class-C brokered dumpyards for years. In Portland, they deserve it, and they got it. In Albuquerque, similar. The problem is ideologues who are selfish and think because they have a political philosophy that everyone should hear it resonating from their coat hangers.
 
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