Lionel....is his conspiracy theories hurting his ratings?

[evnlee]

On Drudge, the 12+ numbers for peak hour N/T hosts in NYC list Lionel as dead last.

Lionel has the ability to be somewhat entertaining, is well read, and uses good music in his show.

Why is his ratings so poor in the Big Apple?

Could it be his 'wacky' theories about 9-11 hurt him in a city where they experienced a devastating terror attack?

Perhaps Lionel should watch the latest 'South Park' episode where Cartman is convinced of governmental involvement. It's a scream

 

[smedge2006]

Perhaps (Ahem.. cough...) it is because he is on at 10 p.m. to 1 a.m. New York time, and all of the other hosts listed, except Laura Ingraham, are on at earlier times when there are more people listening period.

 

[kaufcom]

Perhaps (Ahem.. cough...) it is because he is on at 10 p.m. to 1 a.m. New York time, and all of the other hosts listed, except Laura Ingraham, are on at earlier times when there are more people listening period.

Good point! Especially since late the late night audience is less than half size of the daytime audience.

Also what does Drudge mean by "peak hour" and where did he get his numbers. If he quoting Arbitron numbers shouldn't he source that fact.

 

[evnlee]

Perhaps (Ahem.. cough...) it is because he is on at 10 p.m. to 1 a.m. New York time, and all of the other hosts listed, except Laura Ingraham, are on at earlier times when there are more people listening period.

thought he used to do am drive in NYC...guess he's not that good anymore

 

[DJKraze]

I've never listened to the show, what are these 9/11 theories? Is it something like what I've heard on Alex Jones?

 

[fred flintstone]

On Drudge, the 12+ numbers for peak hour N/T hosts in NYC list Lionel as dead last.

Lionel has the ability to be somewhat entertaining, is well read, and uses good music in his show.

Why is his ratings so poor in the Big Apple?

Could it be his 'wacky' theories about 9-11 hurt him in a city where they experienced a devastating terror attack?

Perhaps Lionel should watch the latest 'South Park' episode where Cartman is convinced of governmental involvement. It's a scream

Please provide a link to this story. It does not currently appear on Drudge's site and searches for "Arbitron" or "Lionel" do not bring it up.

It does seem that 10pm to midnight would be listed as "peak" hours.

WOR is number 19 overall. Number 12 in morning drive; 21 in PM drive. However, the station's audience skews very old and it does not place in the top 20 in the money demos. Stations with older audiences tend to experience a larger drop-off in listening at night. Lionel is not helped by his lead ins, Michael Savage (6-9pm) and alternative health advice (Dr. Ronald Hoffman 9-10pm), which do nothing for audience flow.

 

[evnlee]

On Drudge, the 12+ numbers for peak hour N/T hosts in NYC list Lionel as dead last.

Lionel has the ability to be somewhat entertaining, is well read, and uses good music in his show.

Why is his ratings so poor in the Big Apple?

Could it be his 'wacky' theories about 9-11 hurt him in a city where they experienced a devastating terror attack?

Perhaps Lionel should watch the latest 'South Park' episode where Cartman is convinced of governmental involvement. It's a scream

Please provide a link to this story. It does not currently appear on Drudge's site and searches for "Arbitron" or "Lionel" do not bring it up.

It does seem that 10pm to midnight would be listed as "peak" hours.

WOR is number 19 overall. Number 12 in morning drive; 21 in PM drive. However, the station's audience skews very old and it does not place in the top 20 in the money demos. Stations with older audiences tend to experience a larger drop-off in listening at night. Lionel is not helped by his lead ins, Michael Savage (6-9pm) and alternative health advice (Dr. Ronald Hoffman 9-10pm), which do nothing for audience flow.

the story was front page Drudge yesterday, it's been pulled.

I know your a big fan of Maloney even he appears to have questions about the story:
http://www.radioequalizer.blogspot.com/

NYC TALKRADIO RATINGS
JULY-SEPT, SUMMER 2006
HOST'S PEAK HOUR
AGES 12+

LIMBAUGH 342,000
HANNITY 322,900
CURTIS/KUBY 318,600
IMUS 279,600
GAMBLING 257,100
LEVIN 245,700
OPIE/ANTHONY 197,100
SAVAGE 175,600
O'REILLY 157,800
INGRAHAM 127,600
AL FRANKEN 122,300
RANDI RHODES 115,300
LIONEL 86,700

hmmm.......

 

[fred flintstone]

Evan, thanks for posting the list. After my earlier post here, I saw them posted on another site, as well.
"Peak hour" apparently refers to the hour of the show with the largest audience.

I think Maloney raises some valid questions. Phil doesn't believe anything the guy says. I take him with a whole shaker of salt. :

I don't know about Lionel's conspiracy theories (although some talk show hosts seem to do well with them in late night and overnight) but time of day would certainly account for Lionel's cume compared to most of the others.

WABC runs Laura Ingraham delayed opposite Lionel on WOR. WABC has MUCH higher share numbers in every daypart than WOR (in some books, WLIB with Air America Radio was even nipping at WOR's heels). WABC also has a much more format-consistent line-up of conservative political talkers throughout the schedule. Ingraham follows a local show (possibly being groomed for syndication) with Jerry Agar (recently in from WPTF, Raleigh). Agar follows Mark Levin, who follows Hannity.

Being on a progressive talk schedule (which most often means following Randi Rhodes) seems to work better for Lionel.

 

[FTL_Ian]

Lionel a conspiracy theorist? I find that hard to believe. I think he's too much of a critical thinker to sign on with that stuff.

Of course, I haven't listened in a long while.

 

[evnlee]

Lionel a conspiracy theorist? I find that hard to believe. I think he's too much of a critical thinker to sign on with that stuff.

Of course, I haven't listened in a long while.

I know, I thought the same thing. He's gone completely overboard on the whole 'no plane hit the pentagon' crowd. Just look at his webpage, like 5 different links to 9-11 'scholars' type nutjob groups.

pity, too. how can you take any host seriously that entertains such 'theories'?

 

[fred flintstone]

NYC TALKRADIO RATINGS
JULY-SEPT, SUMMER 2006
HOST'S PEAK HOUR
AGES 12+

LIMBAUGH 342,000 WABC 1200pm-300pm Midday
HANNITY 322,900 WABC 300pm-600pm PM Drive
CURTIS/KUBY 318,600 500am-1000am AM Drive
IMUS 279,600 WFAN 600am-1000am AM Drive
GAMBLING 257,100 WABC 10am-1145am Late Morning
LEVIN 245,700 WABC 600pm-800pm Early Evening
OPIE/ANTHONY 197,100 FreeFM NY 600am-900am AM Drive
SAVAGE 175,600 WOR 600pm-900pm Early Evening
O'REILLY 157,800 WOR 200pm-400pm Mid-Afternoon
INGRAHAM 127,600 WABC 1000pm-100am Late Night
AL FRANKEN 122,300 WLIB/WWRL 1200pm-300pm Midday
RANDI RHODES 115,300 WLIB/WWRL 300pm-600pm PM Drive
LIONEL 86,700 WOR 1000pm-1200am Late Night

In addition to the questions Maloney raises about this list, some other things about it seem strange. For WOR, both their morning and afternoon drive programs are missing from the list. And does Savage really get more listeners in early evening than O'Reilly in mid-afternoon? Does Ingraham really come that close to the two of them in a post-10pm slot?
Does Franken really out-pull Randi in afternoon drive (especially considering she makes the top 20 in her time slot)? Does Rush really beat both Hannity in PM drive and Curtis-Kuby in AM Drive (WABC is number 7 in PM drive and number 8 in AM drive)?

pity, too. how can you take any host seriously that entertains such 'theories'?

Maybe we should ask Bell and Noory.

 

[FTL_Ian]

I know, I thought the same thing. He's gone completely overboard on the whole 'no plane hit the pentagon' crowd. Just look at his webpage, like 5 different links to 9-11 'scholars' type nutjob groups.

pity, too. how can you take any host seriously that entertains such 'theories'?

I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at them, but taking them at face value is a mistake. I'll send him a link to http://loosechangeguide.com , a brilliant site that debunks every claim in the popular conspiracy video "Loose Change" that Lionel links to on his site.

Loose Change is a slick, persuasive video that happens to be totally devoid of accuracy. I don't blame Lionel for falling for some of it, and I still think he's humble enough to admit he's been fooled once he sees the rebuttal.

 

[kaufcom]

In addition to the questions Maloney raises about this list, some other things about it seem strange. For WOR, both their morning and afternoon drive programs are missing from the list. And does Savage really get more listeners in early evening than O'Reilly in mid-afternoon? Does Ingraham really come that close to the two of them in a post-10pm slot?
Does Franken really out-pull Randi in afternoon drive (especially considering she makes the top 20 in her time slot)? Does Rush really beat both Hannity in PM drive and Curtis-Kuby in AM Drive (WABC is number 7 in PM drive and number 8 in AM drive)?

Fact is, that this list is just bogus. It's like the "Talkers Magazine" list. I have access to NY ratings and I can tell you they are a lot different than the numbers presented here. Unfortutunately I can't put them on the board.

 

[FTL_Ian]

I'll send him a link to http://loosechangeguide.com , a brilliant site that debunks every claim in the popular conspiracy video "Loose Change" that Lionel links to on his site.

Yikes, maybe I won't be sending him a link as his [email protected] email address on his website appears to be a goner:

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

[email protected]
SMTP error from remote mailer after end of data:
host mailin-02.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.185]: 554-:
(ISP:B2) http://postmaster.info.aol.com/errors/554ispb2.html
554 TRANSACTION FAILED

In addition his management's email is full, so that bounces as well!

 

[dampier]

I think Maloney raises some valid questions. Phil doesn't believe anything the guy says. I take him with a whole shaker of salt. :

I never said I don't believe anything the guy says. I said he makes guesses about everything he says. I do not consider him a credible news source on anything because reporting is not about simply guessing your way through an issue. The rest of his "scoops" are often publicly available document dumps that anyone with Google could dig up.

I don't know about Lionel's conspiracy theories (although some talk show hosts seem to do well with them in late night and overnight) but time of day would certainly account for Lionel's cume compared to most of the others.

Lionel does not spend a lot of time on the conspiracy theories, but every once in awhile he'll devote an hour to them. He couches them in asking questions, a-la "where is the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania - did anyone actually see the plane crash - where are the plane parts?" He doesn't make declarative statements that a plane didn't crash, he just asks a lot of questions about it. Then again, half the time, Lionel sounds like he is arguing in a courtroom and debating straw arguments just to evoke listener response. I am never totally sure what HE believes. His callers have called him on it though, and since he walks on the edge talking about "questions" he'll tell callers he's not advocating any position - just asking questions.

These issues are not common topics on his show. What you will more likely hear are his comments about cable news personalities. He especially enjoys sticking it to MSNBC's Rita Cosby and Joe Scarborough, although the latter is running to the left on his show so there is less of that. Nancy Grace seems to be picking up a lot of attention from him as well. He also despises the Fox personalities.

He is not running a political talk show per se. A great deal of his topics stem from legal and social issues. Politics takes second place. He reminds me more of what passed for libtalk in the 1990s, like Tom Leykis, only far more cerebral.

 

[dampier]

Fact is, that this list is just bogus. It's like the "Talkers Magazine" list. I have access to NY ratings and I can tell you they are a lot different than the numbers presented here. Unfortutunately I can't put them on the board.

More importantly, we're talking the totally useless 12+ ratings again. Outside of generic bragging rights, nobody cares about 12+.

 

[evnlee]

He doesn't make declarative statements that a plane didn't crash, he just asks a lot of questions about it. Then again, half the time, Lionel sounds like he is arguing in a courtroom and debating straw arguments just to evoke listener response. I am never totally sure what HE believes. His callers have called him on it though, and since he walks on the edge talking about "questions" he'll tell callers he's not advocating any position - just asking questions.

sorry, Phil, that's factually untrue.

Not only have I heard him directly say he believes the US Govt was either implicit in planning the 9-11 attacks, or involved in a cover up, he puts the links to such 'conspiracy groups' on his website.

There are numerous mp3's out there as some of his listeners have documented these statements. He might try to dance around them recently, but his hard core listeners all say he has made statements like the one above numerous times in the past.

wiki describes him as thus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_(radio_talk_show_host)
He has challenged the official interpretation of the 9/11/2001 attacks.

I used to like Lionel. He always seemed 'reasoned'. This latest turn of events is sad.

 

[dampier]

There are numerous mp3's out there as some of his listeners have documented these statements. He might try to dance around them recently, but his hard core listeners all say he has made statements like the one above numerous times in the past.

Where. Links please. I do not listen to him every night.

 

[fred flintstone]

The Wikipedia article describes Lionel as a "centrist" upfront. Toward the bottom of the page, the article says:

Once seen by some to hold libertarian viewpoints, Lionel seems to have adopted more liberal political stances as his syndicated show becomes increasingly available on radio stations affiliated with the liberal Air America Radio Network. Nearly all of the targets of his on-air political criticisms are Republicans or conservatives. He is an ardent atheist.

I am only an occasional listeners but any of you who listen regularly: How would you characterize his stance? And has it changed either (1) since he got picked up on many progressive talk outlets or (2) did he change and as a result get picked up on progressive talk stations?

In any case, it will be interesting to see how a four-way race for the late night progressive talk audience (Lionel, Elliot, Malloy, Colmes) plays out.

Also interesting that two of the players (Lionel and Colmes) both once attempted morning drive on WABC.

 

[evnlee]

There are numerous mp3's out there as some of his listeners have documented these statements. He might try to dance around them recently, but his hard core listeners all say he has made statements like the one above numerous times in the past.

Where. Links please. I do not listen to him every night.

http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/AK/Lionel_Takes_Down_Sean_08-12-06.mp3

okay..here's one mp3 where Lionel asks ' I'm not saying that Bush orchestrated 9-11...But where was the aircraft wreckage in Shanksville, PA?'
(denoting somehow that no plane crashed there, and that the 9-11 commission was not being 'truthful'.)

notice this link comes from a liberal that likes what they are hearing, not from 'newsmax'. And I commend Lionel for shutting this neo-con down. But in doing so, he lends himself to the position that somehow there is a 'conspiracy', and that we have not been told the whole 'truth' about 9-11. Bunk.

Also, remember this caller had previously heard 35 minutes of 'theories' such as building 7 was detonated and a missile hit the pentagon. I heard this show myself.

here's text from his own website:

" There simply is not enough room to list every 9/11 truth movement site. Here are a few to get you started. Remember, these are just a few. The internet is replete with such. Keep an open mind and remember . . . think!

The documentary that is a must-see. If just 10% of this is true, the enormity of this event and this country’s mind-boggling incuriosity are incalculable. Where have the mainstream media been? What do they have to fear? The truth? "


I would think that reasonable 'progressives' would run far,far away from such talk tripe as it trivializes the real misconduct of the current administration ( Patriot Act 2 comes to mind ), just like right wing talkers don't want anything to do with 'christian militia groups'. But Malloy AND Lionel have both had substantive content on thier shows questioning 'what really happened'.

I am aware that 1/4 to 1/3rd of Americans buy into these nutty 'theories'. But that's why South Park can make fun of them, and do. The airing of guests like Alex Jones on progressive talk , IMHO, hurts lib talk and marginalizes them.