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Los Angeles Nielsen Ratings (ranked demos) - August 2024

K.M. Richards

Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
Courtesy Research Director:

25-54:
1t: KIIS
1t: KRTH
3: KBIG
4: KOST
5: KLVE
6: KCBS

18-34:
1: KRTH
2: KIIS
3: KBIG
4: KPWR
5: KLOS

18-49:
1: KRTH
2: KIIS
3: KBIG
4: KLVE
5: KYSR

 
How is KRTH crushing in the younger demos!? Wow!

Not a surprise to me. My own version of Classic Hits in Albuquerque has about a third of its audience in 25-34. David (Eduardo) Gleason and I have addressed the probable reasons in this thread on the New Mexico board.

Chris Ebbott is doing exactly what needs to be done to attract the younger demos in the market.
 
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How is KRTH crushing in the younger demos!? Wow!
KRTH is achieving this with familiarity. Anecdotally, when I do pry my teen from streaming her Spotify in the car and put on a terrestrial station for her to hear, KIIS is often in spots or playing something she's already overplayed to a crisp. The music mix of Channel Q seems to snag her interest, but as an HD2 its potential is limited market-wide (despite being on both 97.1 HD2 and 101.1 HD2). Commonly she'll be okay with what's playing on KBIG, and often as well, as the OP displayed, she begins to hum along to the familiar song playing when I punch over to KRTH.
 
Commonly she'll be okay with what's playing on KBIG, and often as well, as the OP displayed, she begins to hum along to the familiar song playing when I punch over to KRTH.

I don't think I could give a better example than yours as to why successful Classic Hits stick to the "consensus favorites" formula.

Your key word is "familiar" and that is exactly what listeners expect when they hit the CH station preset. Well said, sir.
 
Courtesy Research Director:

25-54:
1t: KIIS
1t: KRTH
3: KBIG
4: KOST
5: KLVE
6: KCBS

18-34:
1: KRTH
2: KIIS
3: KBIG
4: KPWR
5: KLOS

18-49:
1: KRTH
2: KIIS
3: KBIG
4: KLVE
5: KYSR


Trying to work out how KLOS can be #5 18-34 but not 18-49 while KCBS is #6 25-54. Does Jack skew so much older that it hurts KLOS at the top end of the demo?
 
Trying to work out how KLOS can be #5 18-34 but not 18-49 while KCBS is #6 25-54. Does Jack skew so much older that it hurts KLOS at the top end of the demo?

That's likely the case, Flip. Even though Research Director didn't go deep into the 18-34 numbers the only reasonable theory is that KLOS skews younger and KCBS skews older.
 
That is because most 18-34 are not using radio.

Not to throw cold water on that (because it is a fact), Ryan is correct that KRTH is crushing the younger demos. Apparently the 18-34s who do still use radio largely prefer the familiar songs they heard on their parents' radio growing up.
 
Not to throw cold water on that (because it is a fact), Ryan is correct that KRTH is crushing the younger demos. Apparently the 18-34s who do still use radio largely prefer the familiar songs they heard on their parents' radio growing up.
And those 18-34’s are outliers. The core of the demo is streaming urban, CHR, Churban and such
 
Yeah, but put enough of them together and it sure helps the demographics in sales. 😁
I am pretty sure those people David refers to as "Outliers" are, by definition,statistically insignificant and thus do not impact demos or sales. In short, irrelevant.

I know because I have always been the outlier myself (musically speaking; save the snarky replies!).
 
I am pretty sure those people David refers to as "Outliers" are, by definition,statistically insignificant and thus do not impact demos or sales. In short, irrelevant.

I know because I have always been the outlier myself (musically speaking; save the snarky replies!).

No jokes. I promise.

What I don't know is whether or not Nielsen's screening process prevents outliers from being either PPM carriers (in the top 50 markets) or diarykeepers. Usually, if a household is chosen, all members in that household are participants. (They don't like to tell any of us how they go about that.)

And Nielsen has made a big deal out of the PPM "hearing" listener exposure that may have been ignored under the diary system. Wouldn't that have a skewing effect similar to an outlier carrying the device?

I also noted somewhere on RD in the past week or so that the migration of the old "auditorium testing" for music to online has made it difficult to detect the outliers. In fact, I believe it was David who posted that.

So I think you have brought up a valid point in terms of ratings accuracy, Flip. It may be within the margin of error, but what if it isn't?
 
What I don't know is whether or not Nielsen's screening process prevents outliers from being either PPM carriers (in the top 50 markets) or diarykeepers. Usually, if a household is chosen, all members in that household are participants. (They don't like to tell any of us how they go about that.)
Yes, they do. Recruiting is at the household level. Someone in a "dwelling unit" (can be a family of several people sharing a residence) is the team leader and makes the agreement that everyone in the household will participate. Meters are sent, and everyone must use them. If anyone does not, the leader is warned that the individual in question is not carrying the meter. If that meter does not come back into compliance, the whole unit is dropped. Credits good for "rewards" are based on full compliance, and the better the group participates (no skipped days, etc.) the more they can earn.
And Nielsen has made a big deal out of the PPM "hearing" listener exposure that may have been ignored under the diary system. Wouldn't that have a skewing effect similar to an outlier carrying the device?
No.

First, by "outliers" I meant "people who don't have the listening habits of the larger majority... because that group has gone to new media predominantly. So they are members outside of the target of certain stations who listen anyway. Those stations generally don't target, research or program to those people, but they get them because the core younger demo members are not using much radio.

Those numbers are shares, and a 3 or 4 share in 18-34 today is, in rating, about 15% of what it was 20 years ago.

The "phantom cume" (the term we used pre-PPM) was made up of secondary listening choices. A listener might write in a diary about their two or three favorite stations, but not write in those occasional "alternative choice" stations as they were not top of mind when filling in the diary. A classic case would have been someone in LA in 1999 who put on KFWB a moment when they got in their car to get the traffic before putting on Stern or Rick Dees or whomever on their "favorite" station; that never got written into the diary.
I also noted somewhere on RD in the past week or so that the migration of the old "auditorium testing" for music to online has made it difficult to detect the outliers. In fact, I believe it was David who posted that.
Outliers are detectable by charting all the respondents; people who are generally outside the normal range are visible. It is harder, but still very doable.
So I think you have brought up a valid point in terms of ratings accuracy, Flip. It may be within the margin of error, but what if it isn't?
In seeing several 6+ numbers this evening, I notice that nobody is taking into account that a station going from 8.0 to 7.2 is well within the normal wobble of a sample of that size. That is why nobody actually in radio looks at just two months. We like to look at 4, 5, 6 months in our core.

A good thing about Lance's ratings summaries is that he covers more months. Oh, and he gets the formats much more accurately than some of the sources.
 
Yes, they do. Recruiting is at the household level. Someone in a "dwelling unit" (can be a family of several people sharing a residence) is the team leader and makes the agreement that everyone in the household will participate. Meters are sent, and everyone must use them. If anyone does not, the leader is warned that the individual in question is not carrying the meter. If that meter does not come back into compliance, the whole unit is dropped. Credits good for "rewards" are based on full compliance, and the better the group participates (no skipped days, etc.) the more they can earn.

Does that recruiting include methodology to detect the outliers, and if so what effect does that have in the selection of the household?

First, by "outliers" I meant "people who don't have the listening habits of the larger majority... because that group has gone to new media predominantly. So they are members outside of the target of certain stations who listen anyway. Those stations generally don't target, research or program to those people, but they get them because the core younger demo members are not using much radio.

So that still means that if I get enough of that listening it can make some difference. And something is causing KRTH to get good younger numbers. The outliers factor doesn't explain enough of that.

The "phantom cume" (the term we used pre-PPM) was made up of secondary listening choices. A listener might write in a diary about their two or three favorite stations, but not write in those occasional "alternative choice" stations as they were not top of mind when filling in the diary. A classic case would have been someone in LA in 1999 who put on KFWB a moment when they got in their car to get the traffic before putting on Stern or Rick Dees or whomever on their "favorite" station; that never got written into the diary.

Yes, we all knew that had to be happening. I was certain of that as far back as the 1970s. That was, of course, the reason for the development of the PPM ... it would, of course, detect all listening without the faults of the diary and its keepers.

In seeing several 6+ numbers this evening, I notice that nobody is taking into account that a station going from 8.0 to 7.2 is well within the normal wobble of a sample of that size. That is why nobody actually in radio looks at just two months. We like to look at 4, 5, 6 months in our core.

That, mi amigo, is because the non-radio people here want the numbers to be absolute and allow them to make determinations in their post without those pesky demographic rankings that I so inconveniently post getting in the way.
 
The battle between Power 106 and Real 92.3 seem to have leveled off with KPWR seeing some improvement especially with 18-34, while KRRL seems to be showing a downturn.
 
That is because most 18-34 are not using radio.
Just to put some meat on that bone:

According to Edison's Share of Ear study earlier this year, 18-34s were using radio for a shade under half of their audio listening time, with podcasts being a close 2nd and ad-supported streaming a distant third. For over-35s, radio was 74% of listening.
Share-of-Ear excludes ad-free subscription services like SiriusXM and Spotify Pro.
 
The battle between Power 106 and Real 92.3 seem to have leveled off with KPWR seeing some improvement especially with 18-34, while KRRL seems to be showing a downturn.

If you read the full linked article, KRRL fell from #5 in 18-34 to #9, tied with KTWV. But KPWR did hold its #4 ranking in that demo from July.
 
Does that recruiting include methodology to detect the outliers, and if so what effect does that have in the selection of the household?
Nielsen recruits households, not radio listeners. There are no qualifications based on listening.
So that still means that if I get enough of that listening it can make some difference. And something is causing KRTH to get good younger numbers. The outliers factor doesn't explain enough of that.
Every station has a bell curve that falls on either side of the peak age point. The factor here is that listeners to CHR and Urban and other 18-34 core formats are not on OTA radio so what is left is bigger shares that hide very low ratings.
Yes, we all knew that had to be happening. I was certain of that as far back as the 1970s. That was, of course, the reason for the development of the PPM ... it would, of course, detect all listening without the faults of the diary and its keepers.
No, the PPM was developed at the insistence of ad agencies that wanted more immediate radio data, such as the “overnights” in TV. Radio did not want the PPM at all.
That, mi amigo, is because the non-radio people here want the numbers to be absolute and allow them to make determinations in their post without those pesky demographic rankings that I so inconveniently post getting in the way.
And they are looking at share, not rating. Advertisers buy rating… or more recently, average persons.
 
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Thanks for answering all those questions, most of which I knew the answers to but which I knew many people here would not accept coming from me without challenges. 😁😁😁
 
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