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MARINERS LEAVING KOMO, KIRO GOING ALL-SPORTS, KBSG FLIPS TO TALK

  • Thread starter SeattleRadioPro
  • Start date

Bonneville did this same move in Phoenix, but it doesn't appear to have worked. Why would they do it here?
Wasn't talk tried on FM here with the Buzz? Maybe you programming types can explain this move if it is real?
These rumors have been around some time and well reported by myself and other on this board but after thinking about it,these make little sense from a sales perspective. Seems a smarter move is to put the Mariners on KIRO-AM to increase night and weekend numbers and then take KBSG right after KRWM. Bonneville is a leader in Soft AC programming with winning stations in several markets. Why go after KJR-AM, with weak numbers when you could take the FM and knock off KRWM, the number one station right now 25-54? From a sales perspective you could have the number one and two stations in the market. Isn't it an easier move to get the remaining KBSG audience to move to a soft ac? Makes sales sense.
 
...and the SONICS?

What effect will Sonics departure have on the sports programming mix? Maybe not significant as it took me a moment to remember sonix are on KTTH and not KJR these days....!!
 


to move KIRO-AM to KBSG-FM *IS NOT* the same thing as Phoenix, down here, KTAR talk FM 92.3 has a greater coverage area and nearly 100kW, going 120 miles north from Phoenix to Flagstaff.

Furthermore, KBSG-FM has much less coverage than KIRO-AM, KBSG has only about 50kW, FM has no skywave at night, and no skywave during the highly rated, award winning Hersholt/Shannon morning news, and less coverage east of the Cascades.

Plus, moving a heritage station news staff and veteran hosts from AM to FM is fraught with pitfalls and you'll get an immediate drop off in ratings. You may never recover. You'll need a promotions budget of 100 million dollars with signs placed in every public place and publication in the entire Arbitron survey area.

If it isn't broken, then don't fix it!

Dave Ross, Gregg Hersholtt, and Dori Monson belong on the AM dial for eternity. It's a Seattle tradition.

I'd be surprised if Blabbermouth is correct.







 
In this cost-cutting environment, the only thing that makes sense is for a KIRO-AM/FM simulcast. Nothing more, nothing less. An all-sports KBSG is surely going to be very labor intensive and therefore too costly, so I disagree with Mr. Hood's presumtion. KBSG's 12+ ratings would need to fall to a 2.0 or lower in order to pull the trigger on the KIRO-FM. The Spring 2008 book is due (today?), so we'll see. But KBSG typically pulls in a 2.5 to 2.8, and so that is not a good enough reason to pull it off the shelf and try something new.
 
FMSteve said:
In this cost-cutting environment, the only thing that makes sense is for a KIRO-AM/FM simulcast. Nothing more, nothing less. An all-sports KBSG is surely going to be very labor intensive and therefore too costly, so I disagree with Mr. Hood's presumtion. KBSG's 12+ ratings would need to fall to a 2.0 or lower in order to pull the trigger on the KIRO-FM. The Spring 2008 book is due (today?), so we'll see. But KBSG typically pulls in a 2.5 to 2.8, and so that is not a good enough reason to pull it off the shelf and try something new.
Click to expand...

Today is Phase II of the Spring book, not the actual book which will be released on July 25th.
 
Thanks. All the more reason to wait to make any drastic changes. Your next opportunity is at 6:00AM the Tuesday after Labor Day (to flip, if that's the case).
 
I wouldn't say its a crazy idea to move KIRO to FM. Remember if all goes well on the move in from Oregon, Bonneville is most likely to be the buyer.

Bonneville has the knowledge and the money.

However looking at the signals, it wouldn't be the strongest position for KIRO to move right now. Also with the latest ratings coming out and B keeps going up book after book, it makes more sense to keep it as is...tweak it if you need to and just be happy with what you have.
 
Hood usually has his head up his a** although he is funny. who says he's right about KIRO getting the contract? Is that a given? He does say that it's speculation by others that KIRO will go to sports.
 
First, whoever posted the original Subject... when it comes to an unconfirmed rumor found on somebody's blog, please put ???? Question Marks ???? around the subject. A casual reader might think this is actually confirmed by Bonneville.

Second, KTAR-FM is apx. 100 kW at 1800 feet above average terrain. KBSG is 52 kW at apx. 2400 feet above average terrain. They're very similar signals. With FM, tower height is as important as signal power. Most of the NYC and Chicago FM stations have only a few thousand watts of power... but because they're on top of the Empire State Building or Sears Tower or John Hancock Building, they have the same coverage as 50,000 watts at 500 feet.

Bonneville may have moved KTAR over to FM but remember that Phoenix has only one other significant AM station, KFYI. Seattle listeners are more in the habit of switching between AM and FM, with numerous successful AM stations. KIRO is 50,000 watts, while KTAR-AM is 5000 watts. And in Salt Lake City, Bonneville gave KSL an FM signal while it keeps its AM signal.

And as a previous poster says, KBSG isn't out of the game as an FM station. It was only a few years ago it was consistantly in the top 5. Its demos might be aging but maybe a new game plan might revitalize its ratings. This may be a plan for Bonneville someday but I doubt its going to be reality anytime soon.





Gregg
[email protected]
 
Seattle-Tacoma/Re: MARINERS LEAVING KOMO, KIRO GOING ALL-SPORTS, KBSG FLIPS TO TALK

ponderosaAZ said:


to move KIRO-AM to KBSG-FM *IS NOT* the same thing as Phoenix, down here, KTAR talk FM 92.3 has a greater coverage area and nearly 100kW, going 120 miles north from Phoenix to Flagstaff.

Furthermore, KBSG-FM has much less coverage than KIRO-AM, KBSG has only about 50kW, FM has no skywave at night, and no skywave during the highly rated, award winning Hersholt/Shannon morning news, and less coverage east of the Cascades.

Plus, moving a heritage station news staff and veteran hosts from AM to FM is fraught with pitfalls and you'll get an immediate drop off in ratings. You may never recover. You'll need a promotions budget of 100 million dollars with signs placed in every public place and publication in the entire Arbitron survey area.

If it isn't broken, then don't fix it!

Dave Ross, Gregg Hersholtt, and Dori Monson belong on the AM dial for eternity. It's a Seattle tradition.

I'd be surprised if Blabbermouth is correct.
Click to expand...

Has anybody HEARD what Seattle FMs sound like in...um, BELLINGHAM? (save the handful of Comcast repeater pirates up here that save the day for KJR-FM and KPLZ?...)

To move KIRO-AM's format to 97.3 is INSANE. To go all-sports (AM or FM) wouldn't be doing much better.

I'll admit, Seattle is a town that loves it's sports in spite of having only ONE team that ever actually put it on the sports map (World Series playoffs and losing a Super Bowl doesn't count) and now, even the only team that won anything for Seattle are going to Oklahoma.

Y'all might hate me for this, but the reality is, Oklahoma knew a WINNING team when it SAW one. So THERE. Better luck next year Seahawks/Mariners.

I could gripe on and on, about how we built brand new stadiums for THESE teams and left the Sonics stuffed in the Colos-I mean, "KEY ARENA" and that kind of thing, but let me move on to the subject....

First of all. 770 will now be reduced to another conservative yakker, KJR...well, where HAS KJR-AM been without the Sonics. And don't even get me started on KRKO (especially with 50,000 watts) after all the good sports shows (or at least the best they could obtain) have moved to 710 or 97.3....

The fact is, 97.3 doesn't need this. IMHO, they have done far more since Bonneville took over to make it LISTENABLE than Entercom ever did. I actually have a button on KBSG now because it really is starting to sound like an oldies station should these days. More '70s, less '60s overkill (that stuff is KIXI fodder now.)

To kill KBSG now (and you're talking to somebody who would have NEVER said this 10 years ago) would be WRONG. 97.3 has finally gotten it's groove back, why mess with it with sports or whatever talk?

As the rumor goes: KIRO goes to all sports and KBSG goes to News/Talk (presumably as "KIRO-FM" - AGAIN) Like I said, Has anybody HEARD what Seattle FMs sound like in...um, BELLINGHAM?

710 kHz is rock solid in Bellingham. KBSG is NOT.

It would be doubtful, dubious and ill-advised, the way jumping out in front of a high speed train would be doubtful, dubious and ill-advised to move KIRO-AM to exclusively FM. You would think Bonneville would know that by now, having been around here this long before 1996....

But what do I know...just another grave to dig for the rest of us who KNOW better.....





Case dismissed.....I hope.....
 
Unfortunately Hood has been right about most things he blogs, usually before anything is official. The Settle Times reported that Fisher dropped out of the negotiations... who else would even be oin the running? Not KRKO.
 
Gregg said:
First, whoever posted the original Subject... when it comes to an unconfirmed rumor found on somebody's blog, please put ???? Question Marks ???? around the subject. A casual reader might think this is actually confirmed by Bonneville.

Second, KTAR-FM is apx. 100 kW at 1800 feet above average terrain. KBSG is 52 kW at apx. 2400 feet above average terrain. They're very similar signals. With FM, tower height is as important as signal power. Most of the NYC and Chicago FM stations have only a few thousand watts of power... but because they're on top of the Empire State Building or Sears Tower or John Hancock Building, they have the same coverage as 50,000 watts at 500 feet.

Bonneville may have moved KTAR over to FM but remember that Phoenix has only one other significant AM station, KFYI. Seattle listeners are more in the habit of switching between AM and FM, with numerous successful AM stations. KIRO is 50,000 watts, while KTAR-AM is 5000 watts. And in Salt Lake City, Bonneville gave KSL an FM signal while it keeps its AM signal.

And as a previous poster says, KBSG isn't out of the game as an FM station. It was only a few years ago it was consistantly in the top 5. Its demos might be aging but maybe a new game plan might revitalize its ratings. This may be a plan for Bonneville someday but I doubt its going to be reality anytime soon.





Gregg
[email protected]
Click to expand...



KTAR can be on FM and still draw a good audience in Phoenix because the terrain isn't hilly - totally different than the glacial hilly terrain of Seattle. there are hills in and around phoenix of very old granitic and metamorphic rocks, but 90 percent of the land is relatively flat

here's one of the "mountain islands:"
http://www.fybush.com/site-010509.html

the Phoenix market is a rectangle compared to the shoestring market of Bellingham=Seattle=Olympia, up and down I-5. That's not as conducive to FM although I'm "AM ONLY" and am no expert in FM directional systems (like KFNK up there).

most of the nightime AM patterns in Seattle follow the shoestring up I-5, making it to Bellingham (read BONGWATER's post) + the saltwater of puget sound propagates that signal tremendously southwest and north, even into Canada. Why destroy what nature has given you in terms of salt water conductivity and move KIRO-AM to FM?!

as for AM 620 KTAR-AM, photo:
http://www.fybush.com/sites/2005/site-051125.html
it's 5kW, but the ground conductivity is about 8 millihous/meter (from the small scale hard to read FCC ground conductivity map, might be higher or lower) compared to 4 in Seattle (I think? It's even less in many places, there's a special file at the FCC on puget sound ground conductivity WHAT A NIGHTMARE! :).

 
ponderosaAZ said:
most of the nightime AM patterns in Seattle follow the shoestring up I-5, making it to Bellingham (read BONGWATER's post) + the saltwater of puget sound propagates that signal tremendously southwest and north, even into Canada. Why destroy what nature has given you in terms of salt water conductivity and move KIRO-AM to FM?!
Click to expand...

Because the younger demographics that stations want to attract don't know that AM exists.
 
Gregg said:
First, whoever posted the original Subject... when it comes to an unconfirmed rumor found on somebody's blog, please put ???? Question Marks ???? around the subject. A casual reader might think this is actually confirmed by Bonneville.
Click to expand...

That headline got YOU to read the post didn't it, Craig...oops, I meant Gregg? Then it's working perfectly.
 
Seattle Times article on the move July 4th. The article quotes Mariner officials say the announcement is weeks away, but it appears to be with Bonneville and they are hoping for more than half the current contract with KOMO. The rumored switch mentioned in the Times was that KIRO-AM would go all sports with news and talk going to KBSG. Full article at seattletimes.com.
 
Lots of rumors floating around and I think much is still actually up in the air. Couple of other rumors out there - not covered here. One: KTTH goes all sports. Makes sense, if their signal is strong enough. Got some great local sports talent available right now to do it, and Mariners is the ultimate CUME builder, conservative talk really doesn't get the traction from local advertisers and agencies in this market that it may get elsewhere, many would say Rush has had his day. Sonics were there and Seahawks in the stable now, so - pieces start to fit?

I doubt KBSG or KIRO will flip to sports. They seem to be doing fine, not without their problems, but you have to look at what they'd give up revenue wise and what they'd gain. Kids, it's all about the money.

Also, the whole sales metric may be different, KOMO staffed up to "sell" the Mariners and that was expensive to keep a full time staff around for just that. In contrast the Sonics "leased" the time and sold the ads themselves. This makes sense when you have stadium signage, TV, other elements that you already have another staff selling. So I woudn't rule out a "lease deal" option if the M's can't get what they think they're worth.

And who says ALL the M's games need to be on ONE station? Maybe some on KTTH, some on KIRO depending on time of day? An option to keep the advertisers happy while still drawing listeners to the new sports station. Fact is, the exceptional smart folks at KJR Sportsradio have had that sweet little niche all to themselves for a long time without having to actually air any sports!

KRKO could be a loser in this deal, if they end up being the third sports station. They're good people so it will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. KOMO will do just fine as an all news station. M's did for them what they needed to do, help them transistion from "the Larry Nelson station" and put them on the map.

Stay tuned folks....
 
Some very good points Steenman.

I think the issue that the Mariners might have with KTTH is their signal. Not the greatest during the day, and much, much worse at night (when the bulk of Mariners games air). I think that Bonneville already has the plan in the works. Sports on 710 and what we currently know as KIRO on 97.3. KBSG hasn't been doing much of anything for the past couple of years, and their billing has plummeted. Following what Bonneville has done in their other markets, I wouldn't be surprised if they moved in this direction.
None of these moves should impact KOMO all that much. Baseball has given them some evening and weekend numbers and that's about it....especially with how the team has been playing the last couple of years. Not even much evidence of the cume following into mornings. KOMO has done a solid job of establishing themselves as the news and traffic leader in the market. Even if KIRO moves to FM, they'll still be KIRO.....a wee bit of news and lots of talk. Time will tell!
 
Steenman said:
Lots of rumors floating around and I think much is still actually up in the air. Couple of other rumors out there - not covered here. One: KTTH goes all sports. Makes sense, if their signal is strong enough. Got some great local sports talent available right now to do it, and Mariners is the ultimate CUME builder, conservative talk really doesn't get the traction from local advertisers and agencies in this market that it may get elsewhere, many would say Rush has had his day. Sonics were there and Seahawks in the stable now, so - pieces start to fit?

I doubt KBSG or KIRO will flip to sports. They seem to be doing fine, not without their problems, but you have to look at what they'd give up revenue wise and what they'd gain. Kids, it's all about the money.

Also, the whole sales metric may be different, KOMO staffed up to "sell" the Mariners and that was expensive to keep a full time staff around for just that. In contrast the Sonics "leased" the time and sold the ads themselves. This makes sense when you have stadium signage, TV, other elements that you already have another staff selling. So I woudn't rule out a "lease deal" option if the M's can't get what they think they're worth.





KTTH's signal is crap and can't be heard very well if at all in Seattle.
Trying to listen to Sonics games this past season was an unbearable chore so making KTTH all sports makes no sense at all.
I do give credence to at least one Bonneville property going all sports, sure seemed strangely coincicdental that KJR signed Groz for the small amount they did and kept him from jumping to whichever Bonneville station they did.
He works 2 hours a day and the blog/video/pod cast thing just justifies part of his salary as they didn't want an established sports radio vet and also someone who once worked at KIRO to anchor their new sports station.

And who says ALL the M's games need to be on ONE station? Maybe some on KTTH, some on KIRO depending on time of day? An option to keep the advertisers happy while still drawing listeners to the new sports station. Fact is, the exceptional smart folks at KJR Sportsradio have had that sweet little niche all to themselves for a long time without having to actually air any sports!

KRKO could be a loser in this deal, if they end up being the third sports station. They're good people so it will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. KOMO will do just fine as an all news station. M's did for them what they needed to do, help them transistion from "the Larry Nelson station" and put them on the map.

Stay tuned folks....
Click to expand...
 
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