• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Mexico Officially Approves of HD Radio

Interesting. By the way, just curious, are there any real border blasters in operation in the "blast" mode anymore? The licenses for high power still exist, but how many are like XERF? Just shadows of their former selves.
 
stacker said:
Interesting. By the way, just curious, are there any real border blasters in operation in the "blast" mode anymore? The licenses for high power still exist, but how many are like XERF? Just shadows of their former selves.
Click to expand...

XERF is 100 kw, but apparently using less as the local area and the hig frequency do not make for efficient propagation.

800 XELO (later XEROK) is running one 50 kw transmitter at lower power, not the old 150 kw.

XEG in Monterrey, 1050, is running full power. XEWA 540, well to the south, is still 150 kw, and XEW Mexico City runs its 250 kw. Tijuana's 690 and 1090 were always just 50 kw, although 690, now XEWW, has a bit higher day power.
 
While fiddling around on Radio-Locator I found a good street view of the XEW stick in Mexico City. How'd you like to have 250 kW right in your back yard?

And I also can't help but wonder how 250 kW would perform for WNAX in Yankton, SD. They have a phenomenal coverage area with just 5 kW. :eek:
 
Zach said:
While fiddling around on Radio-Locator I found a good street view of the XEW stick in Mexico City. How'd you like to have 250 kW right in your back yard?

And I also can't help but wonder how 250 kW would perform for WNAX in Yankton, SD. They have a phenomenal coverage area with just 5 kW. :eek:
Click to expand...

That's not XEW... the XEW site is where it has been for over 60 years...

http://www.davidgleason.com/Mexico-Radio-Photos.htm
 
DavidEduardo said:
Zach said:
While fiddling around on Radio-Locator I found a good street view of the XEW stick in Mexico City. How'd you like to have 250 kW right in your back yard?

And I also can't help but wonder how 250 kW would perform for WNAX in Yankton, SD. They have a phenomenal coverage area with just 5 kW. :eek:
Click to expand...

That's not XEW... the XEW site is where it has been for over 60 years...

http://www.davidgleason.com/Mexico-Radio-Photos.htm
Click to expand...

What I forgot to add is that this is apparently the site of XEX or XEQ, skame ownership, because it is on the training fields of the America soccer team, which is owned by Emilio Azcárraga Jaen, who owns 50% of XEW, XEQ and XEX through Televisa.
 
I think it has the potential to cause some interesting interference, but really no more interesting than Mexican stations are already. I drove through El Paso last year, and the first station I picked up on the fringes was XHTO 104.3 Ciudad Juarez. It was booming in when the full 100,000 watt, class C American stations could barely be heard, and I picked it up a full 50 miles past when I lost the last El Paso licensed station.

According to Radio Locator, XHTO is licensed at 10,100 watts and -114 feet HAAT.

It was at that point that I figured Mexican watts must be different from American watts.

I've read about similar shenanigans emanating from the Califormula tower in Tijuana. http://www.well.com/user/dmsml/xlnc/index.html
 
radiogooroo said:
I think it has the potential to cause some interesting interference, but really no more interesting than Mexican stations are already. I drove through El Paso last year, and the first station I picked up on the fringes was XHTO 104.3 Ciudad Juarez. It was booming in when the full 100,000 watt, class C American stations could barely be heard, and I picked it up a full 50 miles past when I lost the last El Paso licensed station.

According to Radio Locator, XHTO is licensed at 10,100 watts and -114 feet HAAT.

It was at that point that I figured Mexican watts must be different from American watts.

I've read about similar shenanigans emanating from the Califormula tower in Tijuana. http://www.well.com/user/dmsml/xlnc/index.html
Click to expand...

104.3 Juarez is notified to the FCC as an unused Class C1 allotment. That allows for up to 100,000 watts at 300m (just shy of 1,000') HAAT.

Many U.S.-based sources are BADLY out of date regarding Mexican (and Canadian) stations.
 
DavidEduardo said:
DavidEduardo said:
Zach said:
While fiddling around on Radio-Locator I found a good street view of the XEW stick in Mexico City. How'd you like to have 250 kW right in your back yard?

And I also can't help but wonder how 250 kW would perform for WNAX in Yankton, SD. They have a phenomenal coverage area with just 5 kW. :eek:
Click to expand...

That's not XEW... the XEW site is where it has been for over 60 years...

http://www.davidgleason.com/Mexico-Radio-Photos.htm
Click to expand...

What I forgot to add is that this is apparently the site of XEX or XEQ, skame ownership, because it is on the training fields of the America soccer team, which is owned by Emilio Azcárraga Jaen, who owns 50% of XEW, XEQ and XEX through Televisa.
Click to expand...

Ah OK. I guess I should know better than to trust the FCC data (through radio-locator). D'oh.
 
Zach said:
How'd you like to have 250 kW right in your back yard?

Ah OK. I guess I should know better than to trust the FCC data (through radio-locator). D'oh.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Radio Locator stuff is several steps removed from the SCT in Mexico, which itself is way out of data on its web listings... for example, still showing AMs in the states of Yucatan, Campeche, Quintana Roo and Tabasco where all of them moved to FM!

On your original question, there are quite a few directional AMs that put 250 kw or more in lobes over residential areas. KBLA (ex-KDAY) in LA on 1580 has a night pattern that puts close to 400 kw over a residential area. Even the 1020 / 1150 site in City of Industry pushes, at night, about 200 kw towards LA and across some residential areas that are quite close.
 
I think the rationale is as much political as it is technical. File this one under "Borderblaster wars, digital (sorta) version."

In the 1930s Mexico kept superpower AMs three feet south of the border as vest-pocket insurance that they would get fair treatment in international frequency allocations by treaty. In the latter-day iteration via IBOC, Mexico is merely preserving its right to return the favor if the hissing starts seriously impacting listening on La Frontera.

In any case, I would expect HD Radio to be about as successful in Mexico as it is here. How do you say, Rotsa Ruck in Spanish??
 
Savage said:
In the 1930s Mexico kept superpower AMs three feet south of the border as vest-pocket insurance that they would get fair treatment in international frequency allocations by treaty.
Click to expand...

The NARBA agreement weent into effect on 29 March 1941, and looking at the year before, the only "Border Blasters" were a Reynosa station on XEAW 960 with 100 kw and 840's XERA with 250 kw. Several years before the treaty went into effect,XEAW, still in Reynosa, moved to 1570 with 100 kw and XERA disappeared.

In fact, in the 1937 Inter-American Radio Conference, it was agreeed to protect US stations by elimanting the border blasters and this decision was ratified in the Havana agreement wich became the NARBA treaty.

Even the Mexico City stations that would later be higher powered were not superpower stations. XEW had 100 kw and XEQ and XEX had 50 kw.

So, at the time of the treaty, there was no station in Mexico with more than 100 kw and Mexico actually lost in the treaty. Only by some ongoing long term negotiations did Mexico get priority rights to frequencies like 800 and 540.

Trying to associate Mexican allocations of the 30's with HD is, to say the least, a leap of faith.
 
w9wi said:
104.3 Juarez is notified to the FCC as an unused Class C1 allotment. That allows for up to 100,000 watts at 300m (just shy of 1,000') HAAT.

Many U.S.-based sources are BADLY out of date regarding Mexican (and Canadian) stations.
Click to expand...

Ahhh! That makes much more sense. Whatever it's built as, it's a monster signal. It easily bests all the American full Cs in the market. Granted, most of the Cs there are built as not much more than C1s.
 
But David, as you know, negotiations between Mexico City and Washington over frequency allocations in the two countries had been ongoing for well over a decade leading up to NARBA. It's well-documented that Mexico felt strong-armed by both US politicians and the broadcast industry, including station operators and networks. NARBA was simply the final step in an ongoing wrangle.

Dr. Brinkley and Norman Baker were allowed to build superpower stations at least in part, to pressure US authorities to pave the way for additional Mexican allocations. That was also part of the rationale to expand the AM band from 1500 to 1600 and reshuffle frequencies in 1941. For one example: in the up-and-down fortunes of XER and XERA, Mexican telecom regulators repeatedly clamped down on Dr. Brinkley in response to concessions from Washington. When US radio was felt to be oppressively affecting Mexicans, they would respond by loosening Brinkley's leash, in one case granting him a CP for 850kw. The combination of on-air quackery, outrageous and sometimes sexually suggestive broadcasts (particularly Baker) provoked enormous response aimed at US lawmakers, which was by design.

Yeah, I know - my theory about a political dimension to Mexican adoption of HD is precisely that. But I think it makes sense, especially given Mexico City's 2007 concerns over interference to northern border stations. As far as HD goes, if there are adjacent-channel problems the only effective response is interference-in-kind. As we have learned here, north of the border.
 
Mexico can now retaliate by transmitting IBUZ on its border blasters. Never mind if anyone even has HD radios, IBUZ is now just a weapon. The only winner of this mutually assured destruction is iBiquity.
 
Nick said:
Mexico can now retaliate by transmitting IBUZ on its border blasters. Never mind if anyone even has HD radios, IBUZ is now just a weapon. The only winner of this mutually assured destruction is iBiquity.
Click to expand...

I think there is quite a bit of truth to that. There are several Mexican broadcasters who routinely attend the Texas Association of Broadcasters Convention. For the most part, they own some facilities along the border, and their signals don't seem to think that the Rio Grande is much of a border. I've visited with a few of them at TAB and found they really wanted to adopt HD. It wasn't because they thought it was all that fantastic a system, but because their competition along the border might have it. They looked at it as a “must have,” just to keep a level playing field.
 
Downgrading to HD won't help a station compete within a cross-border market, it'll just help with retaliating against adjacents in other markets throwing IBUZ across the border. Might make them think twice before installing an adjacent-channel-polluter, since Mexican stations can fire back with a whopping 50000 watts of IBUZ and wipe them out at night. Imagine a 50000 watt clear channel signal full of noise.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom