MMJ Reporters in E. WA Making Less Than Working Fast Food

[TheBigA]

I'll agree with you here---a gig like the CBS Sacramento temp posting is a GREAT argument for unionizing.

As I've said many times, I was in both AFTRA and NABET, in engineering and editorial. I can write the script, edit the tape, and deliver the story on air. Being in the union never protected me from getting fired or laid off. It just meant I got paid fairly. When I got laid off, I got severance. It also doesn't mean your employer respects you. He just does what he's required to do because that's what the contract says. So yes, workers are all welcome to unionize. It doesn't guarantee the employer retains the same level of staffing afterwards. The money has to come from somewhere.

BTW when I was in the union, the company was allowed to hire temp workers. But the temp workers had to join the union and pay all the fees. And as I recall they didn't get paid full union scale.

 

[michael hagerty]

As I've said many times, I was in both AFTRA and NABET, in engineering and editorial. I can write the script, edit the tape, and deliver the story on air. Being in the union never protected me from getting fired or laid off. It just meant I got paid fairly.

Which is what we're talking about here.

 

[TheBigA]

Which is what we're talking about here.

Then again, it's not very likely you're going to get a union job in a small market. I was always willing to move for more money.

If you're in a red state, the politicians have done all they can to emasculate the unions.

 

[michael hagerty]

Then again, it's not very likely you're going to get a union job in a small market. I was always willing to move for more money.

And again, it used to be that you could make a living wage in a small market without a union.

In fact, fun fact---in my 53-year career that ends next Wednesday with my retirement, I've never worked in a union shop. If I stuck around here, I might---as you posted on Sunday, my colleagues here at CapRadio are seeking union representation (a move I support).

But I've been fortunate...eight radio stations, five television stations and all of them paid me fairly for the work done, my level of experience and the size of the market.

 

[TheBigA]

And again, it used to be that you could make a living wage in a small market without a union.

Gas used to be 29 cents a gallon. People used to read newspapers. There used to be local department stores. Shall I go on? I can.

Stations can only pay people if they're making money. Right now it's not so good. It's not a charity.

If I stuck around here, I might---as you posted on Sunday, my colleagues here at CapRadio are seeking union representation (a move I support).

The caution there is that unless they fix their financials, there will be fewer workers union or not. The money has to come from somewhere.

 

[michael hagerty]

Gas used to be 29 cents a gallon.

Not when I was working.

People used to read newspapers. There used to be local department stores.

There are still television stations that are hiring human beings to do the news.

Shall I go on? I can.

We know.

Stations can only pay people if they're making money. Right now it's not so good. It's not a charity.

Which would be a much more credible argument if we were seeing salary cuts in response to changing conditions within the industry. But we're not. What we're seeing is decades-long stagnation of wages for these people.

 

[TheBigA]

Which would be a much more credible argument if we were seeing salary cuts in response to changing conditions within the industry. But we're not. What we're seeing is decades-long stagnation of wages for these people.

I've heard that for years, and amazingly, thousands of new journalists enter the business every year. I guess they're all crazy like me.

As long as there are people willing to work for those wages, things won't change. When my toilet backs up, I'll pay a plumber anything he wants.

 

[Kelly A]

Gas used to be 29 cents a gallon. People used to read newspapers. There used to be local department stores. Shall I go on? I can.

Stations can only pay people if they're making money. Right now it's not so good. It's not a charity.

And yet, you keep defending the case for not paying reporters a living wage by using your career path as an example?

The caution there is that unless they fix their financials, there will be fewer workers union or not. The money has to come from somewhere.

But the flip side of that and how history has proven; is providing inferior quality to your audience in an effort to cut one's way to prosperity, never works.

 

[Kelly A]

As long as there are people willing to work for those wages, things won't change. When my toilet backs up, I'll pay a plumber anything he wants.

Given your example of going out of your way to not pay a gratuity by 'waiting on yourself' I'm surprised you wouldn't insist on unplugging the toilet yourself.

 

[TheBigA]

Given your example of going out of your way to not pay a gratuity by 'waiting on yourself' I'm surprised you wouldn't insist on unplugging the toilet yourself.

You misunderstand my restaurant story. I didn't go out of my way. I always tip waiters. In this case, there wasn't any wait staff. The restaurant cut costs by not having any. Radio isn't the only business looking to cut staff costs. My landscaper used to have two helpers. Not anymore. He does all the work himself, and keeps all the money.

 

[Mark Roberts]

You can tell the difference here between who's actually been in these trenches and who's pontificating from above, can't you?

You ain't kiddin'.

If you actually talk to the people still grinding it out in the business now, instead of just relying on Indeed averages or whatever, you'll hear very quickly about how grim it is now.

Those bottom-rung jobs don't lead anywhere. Sure, you can go up in market size, but the pay is still incredibly bad, the contracts still only last two years and you're out, and you're still living with a roommate and doing DoorDash after hours to make ends meet.

There's another factor. What if a big story breaks and you've got to work overtime (uncompensated) to cover it, does it mean that you might not be able to eat that week because you had to drop your side hustle temporarily yet the rent was due?

Not aiming to sound like Grandpa Roberts here, but I remember plenty of times as a reporter when I would have to put in long days to cover a big story, or to cover a meeting because three important meetings got scheduled for the same night, or because someone got sick, or any other number of reasons. I came in early on every snow day too, to help out with the phones. Fortunately, in those days, I didn't have to have a second job to make sure I could buy groceries or pay the rent. If I did have to have a second job for that reason, I would have been screwed because of all the extra hours I put in. This was true even though I went three years without a pay raise. The long hours and effort were part of the (primary) job and part of making sure we were covering our community well.

You know where the ladder does end up leading? PR and marketing, mostly. I can't even count the number of good reporters I've known who have ended up in PR gigs after a few years... and then find themselves having to try to craft stories for the latest batch of new reporters who are 8 months into their stay in town and 16 months from leaving.

This is actually a well-trodden path. I even tried it for a while but some other factors came into play and I was able to return to radio for at least a couple more years before career disaster struck.

It's brutal in a way that's completely different from what Hagerty and I experienced in the 80s and 90s. You don't ever really have much opportunity to move up to something stable and meaningful no matter how hard you work. You burn out and you move on.

Radio was that brutal even before that; TV and even print have now caught up.

 

[michael hagerty]

Radio was that brutal even before that; TV and even print have now caught up.

Mark, thanks for making that point. Fact is, you understated it.

That first TV gig for me----that was after ten years working in radio.

My first job, at KIBS in Bishop, at age 15, was at $1.65 an hour. The then-separate "high school minimum wage". That's what I earned from April of 1971, when I started, until June of 1973, when I graduated.

Adjusted for inflation, that's $12.62 an hour, more than five bucks an hour higher than the current federal minimum wage of $7.25.

When I graduated, KIBS made me full-time (and PD). $400 a month. $33,311.78 a year (adjusted).

That works out to $16.01 an hour (adjusted). A penny more than the current California minimum wage (one of the highest in the country).

KSLY, San Luis Obispo (1974) paid me $450 a month. $35,093.82 a year (adjusted). $16.87 an hour (adjusted).

KIOQ (1974-76) in Bishop agreed to match that to bring me home to help build the station.

KUKI in Ukiah (1976-77) was $600 a month. $39,509.32 a year (adjusted). $18.99 an hour (adjusted).

And the last stop as a radio DJ---KOLO in Reno, 1977-1981. $725 a month. $43,112.93 a year (adjusted). $20.72 an hour (adjusted).

Again, not great---but enough for a young man to go out on his own, live like a human and maintain the desire to continue his career.

 

[TheBigA]

Radio was that brutal even before that; TV and even print have now caught up.

There was a time when you needed a crew to do TV news. Now, you get a $100 camera and some editing software, and you're in the TV business. That's not good for people who do TV news. If your company has the rights to a big TV event, such as the NFL Playoffs, you get a certain level of exclusivity to cover that event. You get one reporter on the field to ask one question of the coach at the end of the half. There are certain exclusives built in. The company pays a lot for that exclusivity. But there are lots of non-exclusive events where anyone with a camera shows up and gets to ask a question. When anyone can do what was once a skilled job, the pay for that job goes down. Supply and demand.

 

[michael hagerty]

When anyone can do what was once a skilled job, the pay for that job goes down. Supply and demand.

"Anyone" can't do that job. They can do a cheap imitation of what that job really requires because standards have been lowered.

Journalism plays an essential role in a democracy. There's a reason it takes four years to get a Bachelor's in Journalism. There's more to it than showing up and asking a question.

 

[fybush]

"Anyone" can't do that job. They can do a cheap imitation of what that job really requires because standards have been lowered.

Journalism plays an essential role in a democracy. There's a reason it takes four years to get a Bachelor's in Journalism. There's more to it than showing up and asking a question.

Exactly. There's a reason CBS Sacramento isn't just holding open auditions for those temp jobs. That's a long list of skills and experience they're asking for.

 

[TheBigA]

"Anyone" can't do that job. They can do a cheap imitation of what that job really requires because standards have been lowered.

You're placing qualifications on something that don't exist. They exist to you because it's a job you do. But to anyone else, they can walk in to a press conference with their $100 camera and ask a question. Sometimes, one of those people will ask a crazy question that none of the professionals would ever have asked. That video goes viral, get's picked up by the local news stations, and the fake reporter with the $100 camera becomes famous.

When you go to weddings or things like that, chances are they hired a DJ. He comes in with his gear, sets up and plays music for the guests. What's the difference between that wedding DJ and the professional on the radio? Four years of college? They're doing the same thing, and it cheapens the value of the job. I was at a big festival with 50,000 fans. In between acts, they had a DJ on the stage playing songs. He had a whole routine, interacting with the music and the fans. He even has his own swag, throwing t-shirts to the people in the audience. He got his name on the poster with all of the artists. What's the difference between him and the professional on the radio? Who do you think makes more money?

Exactly. There's a reason CBS Sacramento isn't just holding open auditions for those temp jobs. That's a long list of skills and experience they're asking for.

On the other hand the station in Yakima would be fine if you were a video blogger with your own camera. Years ago, I was saying that professionals in this business need to form actual professional organizations that are not unions. They need to demonstrate clearly the difference between a real professional and some amateur with a podcast. We see it here on this board every day. Because increasingly the employers don't understand the difference. They're hiring podcasters and bloggers to do the jobs of skilled college grads.

Next time you're covering a media event, look around. Do you know how many reporters there are on a typical red carpet for the Grammy Awards? Hundreds. Some of them are one-man bands with their $100 camera and a website. The more people who can do something, the less valuable it becomes.

 

[michael hagerty]

You're placing qualifications on something that don't exist. They exist to you because it's a job you do.

Will the software let me say "horseshit" on this board? Let's find out.


That's like saying an accountant can be anyone with a calculator, an architect anyone with a pencil.

 

[TheBigA]

Journalism plays an essential role in a democracy.

Here's how essential journalists are:

L.A. Times to lay off at least 115 people in the newsroom

The L.A. Times began laying off 115 newsroom employees on Tuesday. Owner Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong said the cuts were necessary to trim heavy financial losses.

www.latimes.com

This is a big issue. People want news but they don't want to pay for it. So how do professional journalists get paid? One group I'm a part of is talking about that. Because the professionals are losing their jobs to amateurs with a website.

That's like saying an accountant can be anyone with a calculator, an architect anyone with a pencil.

Actually, that's true, but most people want to hire a Certified Public Accountant. Lawyers have to pass the Bar, and meet certain standards and qualifications. But if you have a $100 camera, you can take part in a press conference.

 

[Mark Roberts]

That's like saying an accountant can be anyone with a calculator, an architect anyone with a pencil.

Or like anyone with a garden hose can be a firefighter.

Actually, that's true, but most people want to hire a Certified Public Accountant. Lawyers have to pass the Bar, and meet certain standards and qualifications. But if you have a $100 camera, you can take part in a press conference.

What I think we have here is the Dr. Nick Riviera* view of the world. Whatever brings in the money is OK.

There is more to a profession than getting the job done. There are codes of ethics, there is a base of knowledge, there is a community of peers, there is guidance and possibly even mentorship. There often is some notion of credentials, though that can be controversial. (I'll spare you the discussions that rage in cybersecurity regarding credentialism. Otherwise we will go far, far off-topic.)

It takes knowledge and skill to be an accurate and fair reporter. The fact that even the notion of fairness is heavily disputed tells me that you need to know what you're doing when covering something. It's easy to get things wrong. Every reporter has done it, even with the best of intentions. That's why you need editors, even in a system where the intent of most actors is benign.

The current environment increasingly places the burden on the reader, listener, or viewer to detect inaccuracies or bias or flat-out ill intent. Increasingly, readers, listeners, and viewers are expected to be editors. Most readers, listeners, or viewers are not well equipped to do this. They may not want to do this. They may not have the energy to do it. But the middleman that provides that necessary function is under stress and the system, particularly its economics, is breaking down. It's being replaced by outlets who tell readers, listeners, or viewers what they want to see or hear. In a way, we're back to the 19th century when anyone with a printing press and a case of type can start a newspaper and print any old crap. And they did, along with frequent pleas to subscribers to keep their subscriptions paid up.

Caught in the middle of all this reversion to partisan spheres of information are the people practicing actual journalism. Telling them to suck it up is not a helpful answer and just lets the downward spiral spin on.

* = one of the more obscure Simpsons characters. (I also had to edit this to fix the name. See? I could've used an editor!)

 

[TheBigA]

What I think we have here is the Dr. Nick Ventura* view of the world. Whatever brings in the money is OK.

Remember: I still work in radio. So I see this every day. What I'm saying is what employers think. It would be wonderful if rank & file workers were in charge of hiring. Things would be very different. But they don't. The people doing the hiring are looking to cut costs. So yes, whatever brings in the money is OK. If they're bloggers or podcasters and they have an audience, they get hired to be radio hosts. That's how Ben Shapiro and Don Bongino became radio stars. Not because they went to college or know what they're talking about.

It takes knowledge and skill to be an accurate and fair reporter.

Sure, and instead we have Fox News. What you say is true, and unfortunately is it doesn't matter. It goes back to what we heard during the Dominion lawsuit. The people at Fox News only cared about the stock price. The truth doesn't matter. When that's how actual people in the news business think, we're all screwed.