Monster Ratings for Connecticut's Country 92.5 WWYZ

[TheBigA]

How did they "mess around with it"? Go too twangy for the market? Get rid of popular DJs? Widen the playlist? Narrow the playlist?

All of the above. First they changed the PD, then the music got too unfamiliar, they replaced the evening show with syndication. Lost half their cume in a few months. Now they're FM sports talk. That format's not doing so good either.

 

[davideduardo]

...looking at this as a client in charge of a marketing campaign to increase the subscription rate among young adults for The New York Times newspaper, even though the ratings, age demos, geography and spot prices work, any agency that placed a lot of ads on Hip Hop, and Spanish language stations would be fired because the Return On Investment would be so poor.

Here's a case where the client would not be looking at hip-hop or CHR because the demo is so young that it has never been associated with newspaper readership. I'd suspect the Times would be looking for 35-54, where a print medium still has some chance. So they would find stations in formats like AC, Classic Rock, Urban AC and Classic Hits to be useful. And, given the bilingualism of older Hispanics, who tend to be Puerto Ricans, WSKQ might be a valuable choice.

It's also possible that a campaign would be designed using areas where home delivery rather than newsstand sales was common, eliminating much of the City and the Boroughs... not due to ethnicity but to a desire to cultivate subscriptions rather than single copy sales.

In addition to age and ratings, good marketers have to take lifestyle data into account too. In this case, the education and income level of NY Times readers within that demo would suggest the most likely ad targets would not be expected to listen to Hip Hop or Hispanic stations in any significant numbers.

Generally, age and gender criteria will cover the restrictions. Advertisers seek to develop new consumers as well as reinforcing new ones... but remember much of what is sold on the radio that is bought with numbers is mass market, not niche.

Using a variety of formats is preferred as it avoids unintentional stereotyping which limits the reach of a campaign.

Here's a stereotype for you from more than a decade ago: a certain Spanish news talk station approached a certain Scandanavian car's dealer association ad manaager, and was told that "your listeners don't buy our cars, they steal them." Only when higher ups were informed that the leading mid price car in Puerto Rico was the Volvo, and that the brand had enormous equity with Puerto Ricans did they relent, only to discover that sales to Hispanics catapulted.

Formats and ethnicities are not good indicators any more for the affluence of listeners. A friend, in his 30's, loves hip hop. He also graduated from a leading Ivy League school and recently switched from BMW to Infinity... anecdotal for sure but representative of a very changing landscape in America that can be backed by real quantitative numbers.

Since the 1950s, radio stations have selected their formats to serve certain market slices, where lifestyle differences like education, income etc. can be even more important than age differences for advertising placement. You want to sell grand pianos you put the spots on a classical station, age demo matters not.

Piano stores are very niche, and generally not agency / ratings based buys. But in the 50's and 60's, when all that mattered were the relatively few big AM signals, formats were chosen for mass appeal. In New York City in the late 50's and early 60's, what formats were on big signals (570, 660, 710, 770, 880, 930, 1010, 1050, 1130 (and maybe 1560) other than some Top 40 or MOR variant or one easy listening operation? Those formats were chosen for reach.

Classical and other niche formats have long used income and other items to try to make up for lower ratings (except for a few like WGMS in DC), but generally rate and demo match are the prime buy criteria.

If too much consideration were given the averages for each station as to income and such, many opportunities would be missed. Several of the biggest volume Lexus dealers in LA have as much as half their volume coming from Hispanics, and that is why they have used Spanish language AC stations with good success. The average income of one of those stations would deceive... but there are tens of thousands of highly affluent listeners, and they are the target.

There was a time when an FCC First Class license was needed on premises whenever stations were transmitting,

For an AM, only if directional... and for FM not an issue (I started with a 3rd ticket in '59 and was almost always alone at the station I worked for) and that requirement went away when equipment became so reliable as to not need constant attention.

Technology has changed the traffic department, accounting, billing, sales and, of course, the need for live people in the studio. In many cases, they were only there because there was no alternative.

 

[kms575]

Of course, there is the other big-market 92.5 (WXTU) a few miles south on down the turmpike! They may not be as successful as WWYZ, but they've been pretty established for some years now.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

Country has been a very sucessful format for decades in many northeast markets, including Allentown (WCTO), Baltimore (WPOC), Washington, DC (WMZQ), Albany (WGNA), Buffalo (WYRK), Rochester (WBEE), Syracuse (WBBS) and tons of others.

WCTO & WYRK (12.1 in the last book, and traditionally in double digits) have been #1 in their markets forever, and WPOC has been frequently been #1 in Baltimore.

Based on ratings and tons of awards from too many entities to list, WIVK/Knoxville would merit serious consideration as the nation #1 country station for 25+ years, with shares ranging from 16.0-22.0 and higher over the years, so that 12.0+ share for WWYZ is downright phenomenal.

But I also agree that NYC's ethnic mix makes launching a country station there too risky.

In the case of 95.7/The Wolf/San Francisco (KBWF), either a new owner or a new PD tried the dreaded 'fixing something that wasn't broken' routine, and wound up destroying the station, which had been a steady top ten station in 25-54 with a very successful morning show, as Lon Helton has pointed out numerous times both near the end of his 20+ year stint as the Country Radio editor/columnist at R&R, as well as at his own publication, Country Aircheck, which he launched in 2006 after R&R was sold.

David Eduardo has also pointed out that while LA's KKGO, which was launched four days before KBWF was, has climbed into the top 10-12 here, it continues to be plagued by an older audience, due to the fact that LA is also around 45% Hispanic a la NYC.

 

[Jeffrey]

WKMK on the Jersey shore and WJVC on eastern Long Island are probably as close as NYC will get to country. Also I believe that since these stations have signed on, the chance of NYC getting a country station is actually less since the suburban stations already cover the area where most listeners would be.
In addition WJVC has leveled out and not doing too well ratings wise. Long Island has a history of failed country stations.

 

[CTListener]

OK, why doesn't country fly on Long Island when it's doing very well in Providence, a market that's full of the southern European ethnics (mainly Italian, Greek and Portuguese) that Mr. Eduardo argues don't listen to country? In fact, two of WCTK's air personalities use their actual Italian surnames on the air!

 

[davideduardo]

OK, why doesn't country fly on Long Island when it's doing very well in Providence, a market that's full of the southern European ethnics (mainly Italian, Greek and Portuguese) that Mr. Eduardo argues don't listen to country? In fact, two of WCTK's air personalities use their actual Italian surnames on the air!

The "Southern European ethnics" such as Italians, Greeks, Portuguese have not migrated in significant numbers to the US in two generations.

Several other posters as well as me have have been speaking of first generation immigrants living in the NY MSA... largely from former Soviet nations, Persians, Arabs and sub-Saharan Africans. None are too likely to have a cultural affinity towards country.

The big Italian migrations to the US were between the 1880's and the start of the Great Depression. That means that the youngest first generation Italian immigrant from that period is around 80 now. That's not a prime sales demographic.

You're confusing ethnic or national heritage with present day immigrants who were born outside the US.

 

[ansky212]

I have absolutely no ties to country culture or lifestyle...I just like the way it sounds and it's my favorite type of music. How's that for demographics? ;D

 

[Barry]

The Monmouth-Ocean ratings in nearby NJ have just been released. Thunder Country has jumped to a 4.2, # 5 in the market. According to the newsletter Taylor on Radio-Info, this is its best rating yet.
As for Jeffrey's assertion in his post above that WJVC on Long Island is not doing too well, their 1.7 rating is fine considering their weak signal that can only be heard in the eastern part of LI. That is the less populated part of its market. Long Island can receive a huge amount of stations, and WJVC is beating many with far stronger signals.

 

[Jeffrey]

The Monmouth-Ocean ratings in nearby NJ have just been released. Thunder Country has jumped to a 4.2, # 5 in the market. According to the newsletter Taylor on Radio-Info, this is its best rating yet.
As for Jeffrey's assertion in his post above that WJVC on Long Island is not doing too well, their 1.7 rating is fine considering their weak signal that can only be heard in the eastern part of LI. That is the less populated part of its market. Long Island can receive a huge amount of stations, and WJVC is beating many with far stronger signals.

Actually that is not quite true. WJVC contours cover most if not all of Suffolk County without issue. The only part it doesn't reach is Nassau County which would likely have little influence in increased ratings if they did reach it since in 2011 it is about as ethnically diverse as Queens.
We may see WJVC hover around for awhile but historically country stations fail on Long Island. Just saying.....

 

[Rusty Muck]

After several more months of posting no more than .5 share I suspect WEMP will go Country. That is unless someone else does not beat them to it like WPLJ or WPAT. Today's country does well with women so it would not be much of a risk at WPLJ.

That's wishful thinking.

Let's make all things ceteris paribus. Most radio stations that are properly run don't abandon a format in haste two or three months in. Even CBS was committed to Blink and FreeFM after it became immediately apparent to many that neither dog was willing to hunt (CBS even rebooted "Blink" then essentially renamed it "Mix" after dropping many formatics).

WEMP is a ratings dud because the previous AAA/alt-rock demos were blown out with no real replenishment. Which begs the question: has there been a REAL marketing campaign for WEMP outside of the clownish antics with WINS/WCBS? If people don't know WEMP exists, or still view 101.9 as "that rock station" or "that smooth jazz station," you aren't going to have any luck.

Either way, Merlin seems committed to "news" on 101.9, as they should. Flipping now would only make Merlin look clueless (or confirm that assumption in a lot of people's eyes), and would people even WANT to listen to/advertise with the station at that point? Regardless of ANY ratings potential a country format might have, 101.9 would only look fickle and non-committal, especially when the first few ratings books show equal or worse books than the "news" format has.

Even with WEMP being a dud early on, it may take a year or two before anything happens.

Now, as for WPLJ... seriously? They will flip to a simulcast of WABC-AM before THAT happens. And a WABC simulcast on 95.5 will never happen.

Cumulus does a lot of country - their original flagship station, WKKO-FM/Toledo, has been a country ratings powerhouse for 20 years - but they won't dump the literal ATM that WPLJ obviously is. Plus I'm not confident that Cumulus could develop a brand-new country format on their lone FM signal in the nation's biggest market... while the company itself is a notorious cost-cutter. Honestly, they would do better with free money coming in from 'PLJ.

 

[Barry]

The Monmouth-Ocean ratings in nearby NJ have just been released. Thunder Country has jumped to a 4.2, # 5 in the market. According to the newsletter Taylor on Radio-Info, this is its best rating yet.
As for Jeffrey's assertion in his post above that WJVC on Long Island is not doing too well, their 1.7 rating is fine considering their weak signal that can only be heard in the eastern part of LI. That is the less populated part of its market. Long Island can receive a huge amount of stations, and WJVC is beating many with far stronger signals.

Actually that is not quite true. WJVC contours cover most if not all of Suffolk County without issue. The only part it doesn't reach is Nassau County which would likely have little influence in increased ratings if they did reach it since in 2011 it is about as ethnically diverse as Queens.
We may see WJVC hover around for awhile but historically country stations fail on Long Island. Just saying.....

Nassau County's population is about the same as Suffolk's. And WJVC does not reach western Suffolk County very well. Isn't it reasonable to expect WJVC to at least reach 2.5 in the ratings if it could be heard in those areas?
Jeffrey said there is a history of failed country stations on LI. The only one I am aware of in the past 10 years is WMJC. It ran mostly syndicated shows, and had difficulty competing with the locally programmed Y107, which was around at the time. And none of their subsequent formats have resulted in a significantly larger audience.
Finally, in a current thread about dance music, Jeffrey says that Pulse 87.7 did all right with ratings around a 1, considering its signal, yet WJVC which is also hobbled by their signal, is doing poorly with 1.7. Pulse had few sponsors, and they were for mostly questionable products. WJVC has plenty of commercials, including several country music venues and many mainstream businesses.

 

[Jeffrey]

The Monmouth-Ocean ratings in nearby NJ have just been released. Thunder Country has jumped to a 4.2, # 5 in the market. According to the newsletter Taylor on Radio-Info, this is its best rating yet.
As for Jeffrey's assertion in his post above that WJVC on Long Island is not doing too well, their 1.7 rating is fine considering their weak signal that can only be heard in the eastern part of LI. That is the less populated part of its market. Long Island can receive a huge amount of stations, and WJVC is beating many with far stronger signals.

Actually that is not quite true. WJVC contours cover most if not all of Suffolk County without issue. The only part it doesn't reach is Nassau County which would likely have little influence in increased ratings if they did reach it since in 2011 it is about as ethnically diverse as Queens.
We may see WJVC hover around for awhile but historically country stations fail on Long Island. Just saying.....

Nassau County's population is about the same as Suffolk's. And WJVC does not reach western Suffolk County very well. Isn't it reasonable to expect WJVC to at least reach 2.5 in the ratings if it could be heard in those areas?
Jeffrey said there is a history of failed country stations on LI. The only one I am aware of in the past 10 years is WMJC. It ran mostly syndicated shows, and had difficulty competing with the locally programmed Y107, which was around at the time. And none of their subsequent formats have resulted in a significantly larger audience.
Finally, in a current thread about dance music, Jeffrey says that Pulse 87.7 did all right with ratings around a 1, considering its signal, yet WJVC which is also hobbled by their signal, is doing poorly with 1.7. Pulse had few sponsors, and they were for mostly questionable products. WJVC has plenty of commercials, including several country music venues and many mainstream businesses.

Give me a country station that had success on Long Island in the past 25 years? WBAZ also went country for a short time. That didn't last either.
I wouldn't actually say that WJVC doesn't reach western Suffolk very well. While it may fade out on the Nassau-Suffolk border it certainly covers the majority of Long Island. In my opinion having a Nassau county signal would do very little for the ratings as Nassau country has a very high ethnic population as I said before, perhaps the reason JVC Broadcasting didn't bother keeping the translator at 101.5 which serves most of Nassau.

As for the comment regarding my post about dance music, you really can't compare apples to oranges or markets to markets so I really don't even know how to respond to that one.

This isn't a post about dance music works and country doesn't...

 

[Seltzer]

WPLJ makes a living as a Jersey and Connecticut suburb station. A country station IN NYC would do the same thing. A real hip product that focuses on the Contemporary and mainstream songs, not the twangy stuff. Very current, one 90s song an hour and the rest of the gold from the past decade. CHR approach, big promotions, a fun morning show. Big street presence in the areas where you know there's audience. Look at the Arbitron ratings, pick a bottom feeder and have at it. Would appeal to 18-44 females.

Naysayers------spend an hour and actually listen to the music.

 

[CTListener]

WPLJ makes a living as a Jersey and Connecticut suburb station. A country station IN NYC would do the same thing. A real hip product that focuses on the Contemporary and mainstream songs, not the twangy stuff. Very current, one 90s song an hour and the rest of the gold from the past decade. CHR approach, big promotions, a fun morning show. Big street presence in the areas where you know there's audience. Look at the Arbitron ratings, pick a bottom feeder and have at it. Would appeal to 18-44 females.

Naysayers------spend an hour and actually listen to the music.

Cue the assumption that off-the-boat immigrants from non-English-speaking are non-northern-European countries are hardwired to listen to nothing but rhythmic music and the statistic showing that New York City has too many of them for a country station to ever work. :

 

[bigtom101]

Naysayers------spend an hour and actually listen to the music.

I have...and it STILL is about tractors, trucks, muddin, farming, and other rural subjects. Brad Paisley has songs out called "Ticks" and "Camouflage." Yeah...people living in Manhattan or Bergen are really gonna dig those tunes.

Is country more mainstream than it was 20 years ago? Yes, by a wide margin. But its still redneck music, and still has a drawl to it...Taylor Swift aside. I've worked shifts at country stations, and most of the music is about as appealing to me as a free kick to the nuts. Hearing about Jesus, mamma, and GOD BLESS MURRRICA over and over again gets REALLY old.

You can't make a format out of Carrier Underwood, Taylor Swift, Keith Urban and the other crossover tunes - there just aren't enough.

Just the same as I wouldn't do Jammin Oldies in East Bumblef*ck West Virginia, I wouldn't do country in NYC. I get it...you love the music. I love oldies. Guess what? I got a smartphone with unlimited data and a 32gig SD card. The fact that there aren't any oldies stations is now a non issues with TuneIn and a nice MP3 collection when I can't find something on there to suit my tastes.

This subject has been beaten to death - David Eduardo, as usual, is right about why nobody with a full B signal on Empire would go country at the moment. Much like the oldies die hards who kvetch about not hearing "In The Still Of The Night", it falls on deaf ears. If you really think country is a gold mine in NYC just sitting there, buy time on WVIP and try to sell ads for it. Let us know how it goes.

 

[CTListener]

Naysayers------spend an hour and actually listen to the music.

I have...and it STILL is about tractors, trucks, muddin, farming, and other rural subjects. Brad Paisley has songs out called "Ticks" and "Camouflage." Yeah...people living in Manhattan or Bergen are really gonna dig those tunes.

Then why are they digging them in Providence and Boston?

 

[TheBigA]

Then why are they digging them in Providence and Boston?

Here's your answer:

http://www.radio-info.com/programming/country/wctk-brings-country-success-in-an-unlikely-market

When WHN was a Top 10 station in NYC playing country music, they did something very similar. They stuck to the pop country, and stayed away from the twang. Obviously Providence and Boston learned from that experience.

 

[bigtom101]

Then why are they digging them in Providence and Boston?

I quote The Sopranos - Man 1 "How was Boston?" Man 2 "It's like Scranton with clams."

I just pulled up the Mediabase on WKLB - they have a different sound than Thunder does. Much less hick, and almost top 40 like in its rotation of songs. WCTK is playing the two Paisley songs I mentioned, and a bit wider playlist wide than WKLB.

Boston & Providence isn't NYC.

 

[davideduardo]

Cue the assumption that off-the-boat immigrants from non-English-speaking are non-northern-European countries are hardwired to listen to nothing but rhythmic music and the statistic showing that New York City has too many of them for a country station to ever work. :

You aren't following the responses.

Nobody is talking about "off the boat" immigrants (When's the last time immigrants came on a boat, anyway?). We are talking about first generation immigrants who, generally, reached adolescence in another country and whose musical taste, thus, was formed before they came here. A large proportion of such people will not adopt new musical genres unless they are very similar to the ones they listened to in early adolescence where the basis for life-long musical preference is formed.

Music reflects culture. People whose cultural background has no affinity to country will not suddenly like it because they move to the US.

Looked at a different way, we see that American pop music is played on radio stations (not all of them, of course) all over the world. So it's not about music that is "American" per se. It's about the fact that country is a less exportable genre; that applies to people living abroad or those born abroad who come here.