NBC 5/Dallas Says HD Radio Unpopular In The Big D

[Mike Walker]

I don't mean to confuse you with facts, Roscoe, but a)-QVC sold all the radios they had planned (it was only a half-hour, and nobody expected any one event on a cable network with viewers measured in tens of thousands to be a "turning point" for anything. If so, they were obviously dropped on their head as a child!)

Here in my small, small community a local 3kw FM just asked MY OPINION about whether it's time to go HD. This is a single small station, owned by one man...not a part of a group, and not in a metro area. It's the kind of thing that's not suppsed to be happending "It's just those awful corporated-owned "Alliance" members!"

There are many times the number of HD products available now as six months ago, from most of the major manufacturers. The radios are now in cars, with more big announcements on that front to come. The radios are now in affordable devices...like 150 dollar shelf systems, complete with mp3 and dvd playback, so in effect HD Radio is a "gimme" for free. It's VALUE ADDED! It's in the home-theater receivers that are selling like crazy, as well as the popular high-quality table radios. It's in Ipod-docking units, probably the most popular category in the entire marketplace. And in a few months, it'll be in pocket portables.

WFDD Winston Salem, NC is expanding their HD offerings from two, to three streams in January, making available classical music on their HD2 (available nowhere else in the "Triad" market), and an eclectic mix (blues, folk, bluegrass, etc) on the HD3. That in addition to the mainstream NPR programming on their main channel/HD1. Why does this matter? NPR ALONE HAS MORE LISTENERS THAN BOTH SATELLITE RADIO SERVICES COMBINED! NPR's listeners are willing and MOTIVATED to pay for radio, even when they don't have to. So of course they're buying (from the NPR store) HD RADIOS!

And have you been following that station count in Radio World? It doesn't seem to be sinking, Roscoe. But hey, other than the extraordinary growth, and LIFE in all sectors of the market, on the "supply" (broadcast) and "consumer" (listener) sides of the equation, then yeah...HD Radio is "deader''n Elvis!"

 

[RoscoeBrowning]

After that real marketing effort has been made in earnest, if HD Radio still fails to create any buzz, I'll gladly admit I was wrong about it...

So who decides when a "real marketing effort" has been made? I guess being the most advertised product on radio week after week after week wasn't a "real marketing effort"?

 

[RoscoeBrowning]

I don't mean to confuse you with facts, Roscoe, but a)-QVC sold all the radios they had planned (it was only a half-hour, and nobody expected any one event on a cable network with viewers measured in tens of thousands to be a "turning point" for anything. If so, they were obviously dropped on their head as a child!)

I guess the HD Radio Alliance was collectively dropped on their head as a child, because according to their own press releases it WAS supposed to be the turning point. Got the website and read the press release for yourself.

And since QVC is in our backyard, we know exactly what happened over there. $30,000 in gross sales is not what they planned for, and consequently they were not invited back.

The radios are now in affordable devices...like 150 dollar shelf systems, complete with mp3 and dvd playback, so in effect HD Radio is a "gimme" for free. It's VALUE ADDED! It's in the home-theater receivers that are selling like crazy, as well as the popular high-quality table radios. It's in Ipod-docking units, probably the most popular category in the entire marketplace. And in a few months, it'll be in pocket portables.

But again, if someone buys a product that just happens to have HD radio, does that mean people like it or even use it? My mp3 player has an FM tuner in it that I never use.

NPR's listeners are willing and MOTIVATED to pay for radio, even when they don't have to. So of course they're buying (from the NPR store) HD RADIOS!

That's flawed logic. I'm a supporting member of WRTI here in Philadelphia. I have no desire whatsoever to buy an HD Radio.

And have you been following that station count in Radio World? It doesn't seem to be sinking, Roscoe. But hey, other than the extraordinary growth, and LIFE in all sectors of the market, on the "supply" (broadcast) and "consumer" (listener) sides of the equation, then yeah...HD Radio is "deader''n Elvis!"

So where are the listeners?

 

[Radioman100]

So who decides when a "real marketing effort" has been made? I guess being the most advertised product on radio week after week after week wasn't a "real marketing effort"?

This is a real marketing effort, sufficiently watered down as to make it somewhat paletable to GMs trying to protect their existing analog brands: http://www.hdradioalliance.com/commercials.php?id=111

That's the tip of the iceberg. It's the first time stations will be REQUIRED to mention their HD2 channels and the specific benefits they provide. For all but a few Greater Media properties, it's the first time their HD2 channels and their new, unique formats will be promoted on air.

Again, just the tip of the iceberg. A lot more MEANINGFUL promotion of what's available on HD2 is coming over the next few years.

 

[Mike Walker]

Exactly Radioman100. Other than NPR affiliates, I have NEVER, and I mean NEVER heard a station (on it's analog channel) even mention that they're offering multicast channels. Just the vague mention in the promos of "channels between channels". Hell, I don't even blame the PDs for not wanting to invite difficult-to-win listeners to LISTEN TO SOMETHING ELSE, where the spots for advertisers won't be heard, and money won't be made. These are obstacles, legitimate ones, but they can be overcome. It's GROWING PAINS. And make no mistake about it, terrestrial radio's next "growth-spurt" has already begun. And it's being delivered in the form of packets of data...ones and zeros, Baby. Ones and zeroes!

 

[clouseau]

Honestly now. Do you really think this type of absolute garbage enhances you position?

It doesn't have to. We've already presented enough evidence that HD radio is dead. Radioman100 (and you to a lesser extent, Clouseau) are just way too stubburn to see the writing on the wall. Do you think Quad-FM still has a chance, too? How about AM stereo? The public wasn't interested in those technologies and they're not interested in HD.

Again... there were less HD radios sold than the number of actual Arbitron radio markets on QVC, which according to the HD radio alliance was going to be the turning point for the product. No wonder they can't find people with the radios. That by itself says it all.

There's a lifeboat here for the both of you... or would you rather stay on the sinking ship? Time's just about out. It's ok to admit you're wrong. We won't hold it against you.

For the life of me I can NOT understand the absolute obsession and condescension from people such as yourself with stuff like this. Why do I need a life boat? You're fast with the colorful anaogies, but pretty light on the insight.

If we carry forth the analogy, why does one get in a life boat? To avoid drowning. What is the down side here? The equipement is installed. The boat just isn't sinking. Lives are not in danger. Why the "PTL Club" like evangelism to convert us misguided sinners?

Why should FM broadcasters abandon HD radio?

If we assume there is a finite revenue pie (Something I do NOT concede) then a broadcaster would need to multicast to maintain their market share unless EVERY STATION decided to abandon it. For example...

Let's assume there are 2 FM stations in market X. They divide the revenue equally at 50%. If a multicast station could bill just 10% of it's parents billing, assuming it cannibalizes all parents equally, here's what happens...

Revenue pie is fixed.

Before
Station A = 50%
Station B = 50%

After adding 2 multicast stations on Station A
Station A = 45%
Multicast #1 = 5%
Multicast #2 = 5%

Station B = 45%


Now lets asume these stations were billing $500,000 a year each when we started. After the multicast, Clouseau's stations now bill $525,000. Randy Michaels takes Clouseau out to dinner next time he's in town and say "Nice Job, Clouseau". Clouseau's kid's college fund is safe.

Roscoe's station OTOH, now bills $475,000. In an effort to save money, Roscoe's weekend shift is replaced by Enco and he is now available for weekend shifts at John's Hoagies.

Of course as market penetration continues, the manager of the Johns Hoagies decides perhaps his advertising budget would be more effective if he advertised on that Beautiful Music HD channel instead of the commercial at the local movie theatre. Result? LARGER PIE. The ability to continue to package and bundle formats, stations and audiences in larger and larger packages makes perfect sense for a BIG advertiser as well. Result: LARGER PIE.

It should eventually grow the pie. A good example of this is TV. Lang ago and far away, there were basically 3 TV channels. Some markets had a couple more and some had less, but overall just 3. Now there are about 100 legit outlets avaialable to most houses via cable. Have the sales of the original 3, in real dollars, gone down? YES. Is the percentage of TV money compared to the entire budget LARGER than it would be if we only had the same 3 channels? NO DOUBT. The "Radio Pie" is NOT finite. More choices will bring more inventory and more audience and more money. Unless the choices are on Ipods and satellites. THEN there is NO WAY the pie doesn't shrink.

Of course I'm sure you feel you have much better insight on this than others could ever have. Consider the possibility, though, that as one who "has found himself on the weekend and swing schedules of some very well-known East Coast CHR, Hot AC, Oldies, and Country radio stations", perhaps you don't have as broad a perspective of the radio BUSINESS as some others.

While I admire and salute you for your entry into radio, perhaps you'd have a slightly different perspective if your "maintaining a "real job" during the week to keep {your}self from the poorhouse." was a job in a 3 digit market and your real job was IN radio and IT kept you out of the poorhouse.

Just a thought

All the best


Clouseau

 

[BRNout]

Yeah, you're right Mike, guess where I found it? Right in my vacuum cleaner! can you imagine that? I've wondered why the vacuum cleaner has sounded so noisy ever since I first bought it and why it had such a short cord, but I read your post today, started checking around and guess what? it has IBOC in it!
You know my air conditioner had also been making a loud whooshing noise since I bought it and you can't really hear anything else in it's vicinity when it's on and you can only feel it from a few feet, I checked it too today, and Lo and behold, it's got IBOC in it too! I'll check all my other underachieving appliances and let you know what I've found tomorrow.
Yup I think you're on to something there Mike, all the IBOC has been put into home appliances because it certainly isn't in the radios of anyone I know.

LOL! Amusing way to make a valid point.

I've tended to stay out of this particular fray, but Mike went too far with the hyperbole. A cheap car stereo has HD? Where? Ford is one of the few carmakers on the HD bandwagon and you still pay extra for an HD component. Even with a top of the line stereo in a top of the line model. Sure, the options may increase in the future - but only if there is the demand. So far, it doesn't seem to be out there.

As for consumer products commonly adding HD, again show me the money. Certain ones seem to be adding the capability of picking up web streams wirelessly, but I have yet to hear of a similar movement in HD's direction. HD Appliances? Huh?

It's not that I am dead-set against the technology, but the demand seems to be very soft. The average schmo on the street isn't talking about HD in the way that satellite radio was discussed a few years ago (which has its own issues). New HD radios aren't flying off the shelves as Christmas gifts. Could they in the future? Sure - but it hasn't happened yet and doesn't appear imminent. And, for the few early adopters out there, there are still very few HD radio choices for sale out there. Again, I am sure that the number of options will increase over time (and the quality), but this process is very slow. If they were affordable and of high quality, I'd buy one too. But the choices are limited and too many are white elephants (hello, Boston Acoustics?).

Face it, there is no just no "buzz" about IBOC right now.........except where adjacent frequencies are concerned. :

 

[clouseau]

LOL! Amusing way to make a valid point.

I've tended to stay out of this particular fray, but Mike went too far with the hyperbole. A cheap car stereo has HD? Where?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...radio&lp=4&type=product&cp=1&id=1179531591062

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...radio&lp=6&type=product&cp=1&id=1186004537907

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...radio&lp=5&type=product&cp=1&id=1179876484523

Nothing here over $129.99 for AM-FM-HD-CD car radios. Maybe I'm missing the cutoff point for Cheap?

Clouseau

 

[KB1OKL]

Slow news day at KXAS. I bet I could poll quite a few people and find that none of them watch local TV news.

Typical TV filler fluff. Unscientific poll, one interview source, KHKS gets some free promotion. Yawn...

They didn't ask if anyone had LISTENED to their HD radio, they asked if anyone OWNED one.
I think the results might have been a bit different if they had asked how many people owned TV sets.
Your comparison doesn't make sense.

 

[KB1OKL]

"Justify, justify"??? That doesn't exactly mitigate ANY of what Radioman100 said.

By the way...if someone makes a claim, it's up to them to prove their point, not up to others to disprove it!

We have to prove that IBOC's a failure? haha! Anyone here that doesn't realize by now that it's a dismal failure has his head firmly planted in the sand. I think perhaps a nice pairing would be an HD radio with an 8 track player in it, that might improve sales.

 

[KB1OKL]

Clouseau:

They may be somewhat cordial on their little webcast. I personally wouldn't know.

Take a gander at their chat board sometime. It really gives new meaning to juvenile and vitriolic. Mike Walker tipped me off to the fact that I'm one of their favorite topics. They call me "Headinass100."

You might expect such childishness from some mere visitors, but I'm talking about the proprietors. It gives you keen insight into who they really are.

you gotta admit it has a ring to it ;D

 

[KB1OKL]

In this never ending holy war between the small faction who believe that HD is wicked and evil, and the small faction who believe that HD is holy and blessed......

The truth, as usual, lies someplace in the middle, where most of us live on this matter.

Very true. The lovers and the haters make up say 1%. The remaining 99% where everyone else can be found just simply don't give a damn. Again... the product's been out for over 2 years now and 99% of people just don't give a damn either way. HD radio is a failure in every aspect of the word.

I can't buy the argument that if you have it and don't know it that's better than not having it at all. Some people have AIDS and don't know it either... does that mean they're going to like it when they find out they have it?

I think 1% is being very optimistic, it is only people involved with radio who know anything about it and that is hardly 1% of the population and I would have to say that 90% of the people who do know about it dislike it.
I belong to a ham radio reflector which just had an IBOC discussion pulled that was overwhelmingly anti-IBOC because one of the hams was an iniquity employee and took exception to the tone of the posts and started a ruckus. In fact the whole long thread (150+ posts) had been cordial until this happened

 

[KB1OKL]

After that real marketing effort has been made in earnest, if HD Radio still fails to create any buzz, I'll gladly admit I was wrong about it, but to do so before then is just foolish. I'll leave that to the bloggers and the internet radio wannabes.

"The real Marketing effort?" So the 200 million spent so far was just a little pre-real marketing exercise?

And it already does create buzz, in fact it creates buzz in millions of radio every night across the US, could be why one of it's more innocuous nicknames is iBuzz.

 

[KB1OKL]

Exactly Radioman100. Other than NPR affiliates, I have NEVER, and I mean NEVER heard a station (on it's analog channel) even mention that they're offering multicast channels. Just the vague mention in the promos of "channels between channels". Hell, I don't even blame the PDs for not wanting to invite difficult-to-win listeners to LISTEN TO SOMETHING ELSE, where the spots for advertisers won't be heard, and money won't be made. These are obstacles, legitimate ones, but they can be overcome. It's GROWING PAINS. And make no mistake about it, terrestrial radio's next "growth-spurt" has already begun. And it's being delivered in the form of packets of data...ones and zeros, Baby. Ones and zeroes!

WZLX 100.7 Boston MA regularly promotes their HD-2 channel with what? More classic rock, now that's novel programming. I've heard they play the B-sides of old classic rock singles.
Incidentally I listen to NPR and honestly can't figure out how they bought into this giant lead balloon, wait, oh yeah, the feds are giving them some of the money and the listeners are giving them the rest (without knowing it), actually WE are giving them the money either through taxes or donations. I think I'm going to complain right now.

 

[KB1OKL]

LOL! Amusing way to make a valid point.

I've tended to stay out of this particular fray, but Mike went too far with the hyperbole. A cheap car stereo has HD? Where?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...radio&lp=4&type=product&cp=1&id=1179531591062

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...radio&lp=6&type=product&cp=1&id=1186004537907

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...radio&lp=5&type=product&cp=1&id=1179876484523

Nothing here over $129.99 for AM-FM-HD-CD car radios. Maybe I'm missing the cutoff point for Cheap?

Clouseau

The way things are going they're going to be paying people to haul them away anyway, at least this way they can sell a few maybe.

 

[Radioman100]

After that real marketing effort has been made in earnest, if HD Radio still fails to create any buzz, I'll gladly admit I was wrong about it, but to do so before then is just foolish. I'll leave that to the bloggers and the internet radio wannabes.

"The real Marketing effort?" So the 200 million spent so far was just a little pre-real marketing exercise?

Playing an HD Radio spot in an unsold commercial slot isn't spending anything.

That, and the spots they've been playing in those unsold spots don't sell the HD2 channels. Mention them? Sort-of, but not in a way that would compel ANYONE to buy an HD Radio. They tell the listener to go buy a radio that picks up something. Who would do that? Not very compelling advertising.

Your failure to see that this is what I was saying is just obtuse, but stick to your played out "nobody's buying them now" argument. It will be just that much funnier when people do. Scott Fybush's NPR station is selling specific benefits, and his listeners are buying HD radios. Weird how that works!

 

[Radioman100]

The way things are going they're going to be paying people to haul them away anyway, at least this way they can sell a few maybe.

The way things are going huh? A new ad campaign that sells specific benefits and specific formats will probably change that. It seems to be working for NPR.

I wonder what the impact will be when every commercial HD station in the Alliance starts marketing specific benefits too?

 

[clouseau]

LOL! Amusing way to make a valid point.

I've tended to stay out of this particular fray, but Mike went too far with the hyperbole. A cheap car stereo has HD? Where?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...radio&lp=4&type=product&cp=1&id=1179531591062

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...radio&lp=6&type=product&cp=1&id=1186004537907

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...radio&lp=5&type=product&cp=1&id=1179876484523

Nothing here over $129.99 for AM-FM-HD-CD car radios. Maybe I'm missing the cutoff point for Cheap?

Clouseau

The way things are going they're going to be paying people to haul them away anyway, at least this way they can sell a few maybe.

it's the old Oxymoronic (Emphasis on the moronic) arguement.

HD Radios Suck. They're too expensive - no one wil pay that.
HD Radios Suck. They're too cheap. They have no perceived value
HD Radios Suck. They need to pay people to haul them off.
HD Radios Suck. No one will buy a cheap radio.

Pick a story and go with it.

Clouseau

 

[Mike Walker]

You're WAY cool, Clouseau! I've never really felt this way about a man before, but.....(KIDDING! Not about you being cool, but I'm 'fraid I like girls. And HD Radio. Both make me happy!)

 

[jcolletta275]

"Justify, justify"??? That doesn't exactly mitigate ANY of what Radioman100 said.

By the way...if someone makes a claim, it's up to them to prove their point, not up to others to disprove it!

We have to prove that IBOC's a failure? haha! Anyone here that doesn't realize by now that it's a dismal failure has his head firmly planted in the sand. I think perhaps a nice pairing would be an HD radio with an 8 track player in it, that might improve sales.

Bingo.