New Jersey high school FM surrenders radio license

[nd2023]

Why didn't they just sell their license? I'm sure a potential buyer would also sweeten the deal by paying the fines themselves too if they really want the license.

 

[badjef]

Why didn't they just sell their license? I'm sure a potential buyer would also sweeten the deal by paying the fines themselves too if they really want the license.

Or that same potential buyer could have asked for the license.

In a previous post, I suggested someone (locally) approach them and offer to operate or take the license from them.

As they have surrendered the license, I guess nobody did.

We all lose.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[MickeyD]

Why didn't they just sell their license? I'm sure a potential buyer would also sweeten the deal by paying the fines themselves too if they really want the license.

Or that same potential buyer could have asked for the license.

In a previous post, I suggested someone (locally) approach them and offer to operate or take the license from them.

As they have surrendered the license, I guess nobody did.

We all lose.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

The station was never for sale a non-comm in the area approached the school board. There is no legal way to take it away from them until license renewal time.

 

[MickeyD]

The question was answered in the text you quoted.

LPFM's are on the commercial band (92-108) while
88-92 is reserved for non-commercial stations.

They don't mix them. If someone wants to apply for
WBGD's frequency, it would be a non-comm.

Someone should do it fast before the "neighbors" take
up the slack and get power increases or move, etc.

I couldn't find such a restriction in the FCC rules and regs. According to part 73.805 Availability of Channels for LPFMs all of the channels ar available except 89.1.

As for anyone applying I doubt their will be another non-comm window in he near future and he LPFM window is still up in the air.

 

[badjef]

The question was answered in the text you quoted.

LPFM's are on the commercial band (92-108) while
88-92 is reserved for non-commercial stations.

They don't mix them. If someone wants to apply for
WBGD's frequency, it would be a non-comm.

Someone should do it fast before the "neighbors" take
up the slack and get power increases or move, etc.

I couldn't find such a restriction in the FCC rules and regs. According to part 73.805 Availability of Channels for LPFMs all of the channels ar available except 89.1.

As for anyone applying I doubt their will be another non-comm window in he near future and he LPFM window is still up in the air.

My point to the discussion was that many of the posters were finding fault with the Brick Board of Education and their handling the station and the FCC for ignoring the dead air. While all along it was there for the taking. I don’t mean swapping control of their license. That is just a formality.
I am talking about making it legal and returning it to the air. To be able to service the Brick High students in the event of school closings, Dragons football, or any announcements necessary to the operation of the school, or just plain entertainment and training.

That’s why I said, you guys blew it.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[MickeyD]

The question was answered in the text you quoted.

LPFM's are on the commercial band (92-108) while
88-92 is reserved for non-commercial stations.

They don't mix them. If someone wants to apply for
WBGD's frequency, it would be a non-comm.

Someone should do it fast before the "neighbors" take
up the slack and get power increases or move, etc.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

The station needed new equipment and the funds they had were sunk into TV equipment. A few year before they renewed their license they had a problem with kids swearing on the air an maybe that had something to do with it. The radio station wasn't a priority with them and they had no interest in selling it. On top of that they told the FCC that they were on the air, when in fact they had already been off the air for a year. Neal Newman offered to get them back on the air and they pretty much told him to take a hike. Some people you just cannot help.

 

[MickeyD]

The question was answered in the text you quoted.

LPFM's are on the commercial band (92-108) while
88-92 is reserved for non-commercial stations.

They don't mix them. If someone wants to apply for
WBGD's frequency, it would be a non-comm.

Someone should do it fast before the "neighbors" take
up the slack and get power increases or move, etc.

I couldn't find such a restriction in the FCC rules and regs. According to part 73.805 Availability of Channels for LPFMs all of the channels ar available except 89.1.

As for anyone applying I doubt their will be another non-comm window in he near future and he LPFM window is still up in the air.

Sorry that was supposed to be 87.9 that is reserved for UN radio in NYC.

 

[badjef]

Sorry that was supposed to be 87.9 that is reserved for UN radio in NYC.

I think you were closer the first time.

I recall 89.3 was reserved for the UN.

WVRM's license was issued provisional as a result.

Sometime over the years, I heard there was another frequency set aside for the UN. Since 87.9 is not inside of the broadcast band, that would not be an option. Nor was that the channel I recall.

Your milage may vary.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[TheBigA]

Back in the 70s, it wasn't uncommon for high schools to start 10-watt FM stations. FM was just gaining steam. There were similar stations in Highland Park and Piscataway. That was when WRSU moved from carrier current to FM. I think Middlesex County College may have had a 10-watter. Then the laws changed and the stations increased power. I think WBGD had 190 watts.

Now school boards are looking for ways to cut expenses, and radio stations are easy to chop. If local governments can't support small stations like this, it seems to me very unlikely that the LPFM movement has much of a chance. The money has to come from somewhere. Individuals don't want to pay, governments are cutting back, and other non-profits are also hurting. Even the state is looking to sell off NJN. The consolidation that hit the commercial world is about to hit non-commercial radio with even more force.

 

[badjef]

Sorry that was supposed to be 87.9 that is reserved for UN radio in NYC.

I think you were closer the first time.

I recall 89.3 was reserved for the UN.

WVRM's license was issued provisional as a result.

Sometime over the years, I heard there was another frequency set aside for the UN. Since 87.9 is not inside of the broadcast band, that would not be an option. Nor was that the channel I recall.

Your milage may vary.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Append: 73.501: the U.N DOES have 89.1. Although, I don't recall that as being the second channel.

 

[MickeyD]

Sorry that was supposed to be 87.9 that is reserved for UN radio in NYC.

I think you were closer the first time.

I recall 89.3 was reserved for the UN.

WVRM's license was issued provisional as a result.

Sometime over the years, I heard there was another frequency set aside for the UN. Since 87.9 is not inside of the broadcast band, that would not be an option. Nor was that the channel I recall.

Your milage may vary.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

You may be right. Actually 87.9 is channel 200 in the FM band. There are 4 radio stations on the freqeuncy

 

[badjef]

Back in the 70s, it wasn't uncommon for high schools to start 10-watt FM stations. FM was just gaining steam. There were similar stations in Highland Park and Piscataway. That was when WRSU moved from carrier current to FM. I think Middlesex County College may have had a 10-watter. Then the laws changed and the stations increased power. I think WBGD had 190 watts.

Now school boards are looking for ways to cut expenses, and radio stations are easy to chop. If local governments can't support small stations like this, it seems to me very unlikely that the LPFM movement has much of a chance. The money has to come from somewhere. Individuals don't want to pay, governments are cutting back, and other non-profits are also hurting. Even the state is looking to sell off NJN. The consolidation that hit the commercial world is about to hit non-commercial radio with even more force.

Proving Liberalism doesn't work because you eventually run out of other people's money. Especially if they've run out of it first.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[badjef]

Sorry that was supposed to be 87.9 that is reserved for UN radio in NYC.

I think you were closer the first time.

I recall 89.3 was reserved for the UN.

WVRM's license was issued provisional as a result.

Sometime over the years, I heard there was another frequency set aside for the UN. Since 87.9 is not inside of the broadcast band, that would not be an option. Nor was that the channel I recall.

Your milage may vary.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

You may be right. Actually 87.9 is channel 200 in the FM band. There are 4 radio stations on the frequency

That allocation slipped in under my radar.
For years that was “reserved” for the pirates.

If you see all of the requirements for it, there are a very small number of areas in the country that would qualify. That leads me to think it was allowed for a specific purpose. Similar to the ruling on the channel 9 situation of the 80’s that Press is trying to resurrect for the TV stations they purchased.

Legal FM broadcast band was 88-108.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[tom]

The frequency of 89.1 in the New York metropolitan area is actually reserved by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) for the United Nations (to a maximum of 20 kW effective radiated power at up to 500 feet (152 m) HAAT, per 47 CFR §73.501. This is the only allotment in the country to be specified in the reserved band used by non-commercial educational stations. Because this was never used by the U.N., WNYU was allowed to broadcast on it.

 

[badjef]

The frequency of 89.1 in the New York metropolitan area is actually reserved by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) for the United Nations (to a maximum of 20 kW effective radiated power at up to 500 feet (152 m) HAAT, per 47 CFR §73.501. This is the only allotment in the country to be specified in the reserved band used by non-commercial educational stations. Because this was never used by the U.N., WNYU was allowed to broadcast on it.

Do you know why the change from 89.3 to 89.1?

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[w9wi]

Do you know why the change from 89.3 to 89.1?

To my knowledge it's always been 89.1. Assignment of that frequency would allow for the maximum possible number of non-commercial stations in NYC. And looking back in Broadcasting Yearbooks back to the late 1950s, I see no sign of any allotment other than 89.1, and no sign of allotments of other non-commercial stations that would have allowed the assignment of 89.3 in NYC.

Stations with overlapping coverage must be at least 800KHz (0.8MHz) apart. The FCC had already assigned commercial channels to NYC in this pattern: 92.3 93.1 93.9 94.7 95.5 etc... So, in the non-commercial band, the highest frequency that could be used in New York was 91.5. If 91.5 was assigned to a station, then the next highest usable frequency was 90.7.

And then, 89.9. If 89.9 was assigned, then 89.3 could not be used - it would be too close in frequency to the 89.9 station. Or, if 89.3 was there first, then 89.9 could not be assigned.

89.1, however, could be assigned consistent with an existing 89.9 assignment. (and then, the next assignment would be 88.3)

 

[MickeyD]

Sorry that was supposed to be 87.9 that is reserved for UN radio in NYC.

I think you were closer the first time.

I recall 89.3 was reserved for the UN.

WVRM's license was issued provisional as a result.

Sometime over the years, I heard there was another frequency set aside for the UN. Since 87.9 is not inside of the broadcast band, that would not be an option. Nor was that the channel I recall.

Your milage may vary.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

You may be right. Actually 87.9 is channel 200 in the FM band. There are 4 radio stations on the frequency

That allocation slipped in under my radar.
For years that was “reserved” for the pirates.

If you see all of the requirements for it, there are a very small number of areas in the country that would qualify. That leads me to think it was allowed for a specific purpose. Similar to the ruling on the channel 9 situation of the 80’s that Press is trying to resurrect for the TV stations they purchased.

Legal FM broadcast band was 88-108.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Channel 201 is 88.1 and Channel 200 is 87.9. You can't get a station on it but is the first channel on the FM dial. There are three stations licensed to use it.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?stat...&slat2=&NS=N&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&EW=W&size=9

 

[badjef]

Do you know why the change from 89.3 to 89.1?

To my knowledge it's always been 89.1. Assignment of that frequency would allow for the maximum possible number of non-commercial stations in NYC. And looking back in Broadcasting Yearbooks back to the late 1950s, I see no sign of any allotment other than 89.1, and no sign of allotments of other non-commercial stations that would have allowed the assignment of 89.3 in NYC.

Stations with overlapping coverage must be at least 800KHz (0.8MHz) apart. The FCC had already assigned commercial channels to NYC in this pattern: 92.3 93.1 93.9 94.7 95.5 etc... So, in the non-commercial band, the highest frequency that could be used in New York was 91.5. If 91.5 was assigned to a station, then the next highest usable frequency was 90.7.

And then, 89.9. If 89.9 was assigned, then 89.3 could not be used - it would be too close in frequency to the 89.9 station. Or, if 89.3 was there first, then 89.9 could not be assigned.

89.1, however, could be assigned consistent with an existing 89.9 assignment. (and then, the next assignment would be 88.3)

I understand the 800Khz. spacing rules. It was designed to allow for the maximum number of commercial stations and to set a reference point for their allocations throughout the country to minimize the interference.

But I know that WVRM’s posted license had a provision on the license form for use of that frequency for the U.N. if it wanted to use it. This was in 1979 when they were still at Airport Plaza.

It is how I found out about the U.N. reserving a frequency in the first place.
(On a personal note, I wish someone would delete the reservation. If not for any other reasons but to let that band of ungrateful thieves they aren’t welcome here, anymore…but I’ll leave that for another discussion group…)

As for 87.9, I see only one station using it, which, nevertheless, validates your assertion and the FCC rule that allows it for displaced stations from different frequencies. There are applications for it but only one station claims to be using it.

It is curious to me on why anybody would want it. Just as the 87.7(5) or the extended AM band since most people don’t even know it exists.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[w9wi]

But I know that WVRM’s posted license had a provision on the license form for use of that frequency for the U.N. if it wanted to use it. This was in 1979 when they were still at Airport Plaza.

That would have been due to *adjacent*-channel interference. WNYU was already on the air on 89.1 by the time WVRM came on the air.

As for 87.9, I see only one station using it, which, nevertheless, validates your assertion and the FCC rule that allows it for displaced stations from different frequencies. There are applications for it but only one station claims to be using it.

It is curious to me on why anybody would want it. Just as the 87.7(5) or the extended AM band since most people don’t even know it exists.

There are actually two, though the other one is a translator. Calvary Satellite Network managed to convince the FCC an FM translator is actually a Class D station, and thus eligible for 87.9 under the rules. The station was otherwise eligible. They got bumped from 88.1 by a new full-power station on 88.3; they showed 87.9 was the only place it could move. (any other frequency would be a "major change", for which they'd have to wait years for a filing window, by which time their license would be canceled for remaining off the air for over a year)

I don't think anyone really wants to be on 87.9. But if the alternative is surrendering your license & going off the air, 87.9 is probably the better choice... The criteria for using that frequency are so strict that you really aren't going to be authorized there unless you have absolutely no other alternative.

 

[MickeyD]

But I know that WVRM’s posted license had a provision on the license form for use of that frequency for the U.N. if it wanted to use it. This was in 1979 when they were still at Airport Plaza.

That would have been due to *adjacent*-channel interference. WNYU was already on the air on 89.1 by the time WVRM came on the air.

As for 87.9, I see only one station using it, which, nevertheless, validates your assertion and the FCC rule that allows it for displaced stations from different frequencies. There are applications for it but only one station claims to be using it.

It is curious to me on why anybody would want it. Just as the 87.7(5) or the extended AM band since most people don’t even know it exists.

There are actually two, though the other one is a translator. Calvary Satellite Network managed to convince the FCC an FM translator is actually a Class D station, and thus eligible for 87.9 under the rules. The station was otherwise eligible. They got bumped from 88.1 by a new full-power station on 88.3; they showed 87.9 was the only place it could move. (any other frequency would be a "major change", for which they'd have to wait years for a filing window, by which time their license would be canceled for remaining off the air for over a year)

I don't think anyone really wants to be on 87.9. But if the alternative is surrendering your license & going off the air, 87.9 is probably the better choice... The criteria for using that frequency are so strict that you really aren't going to be authorized there unless you have absolutely no other alternative.

I would take 87.9 in a minute. Look at 87.7 in Boston for example. They are operating with about 500 watts and have a thrity mile range. No one else is on the frequency and they have a similar coverage to WGBH with their 100KW signal.A clear channel has it's advantage.