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NEW PIONEERS OF TV TONIGHT ON PBS: WESTERNS
- Thread starter gregg75
- Start date
I agree - last week's show was a complete waste. They entitled the show "Pioneers of Science Fiction" then showcased "Star Trek" and "Lost in Space" - two incredibly bad dramas set in a cheesy sci-fi set but otherwise just junk. They also gave us a smattering of "The Twilight Zone" which was much more a mystery/drama than science fiction but at least there was some connection there.
If the producers were old enough to understand the genre they would have gone back to the days of "Flash Gordon" and "Science Fiction Theater". Among others, those were the true pioneers.
Tonight's show is Westerns and I'm waiting for "Bonanza" and "Gunsmoke" to be the prime topics. BARF! Westerns go back to the earliest days of movies and TV. I'm guessing we won't be seeing Lash LaRue or William S. Hart. Maybe if they mention William Boyd, Gene Autry and Roy Rogers it will be good enough.
If the producers were old enough to understand the genre they would have gone back to the days of "Flash Gordon" and "Science Fiction Theater". Among others, those were the true pioneers.
Tonight's show is Westerns and I'm waiting for "Bonanza" and "Gunsmoke" to be the prime topics. BARF! Westerns go back to the earliest days of movies and TV. I'm guessing we won't be seeing Lash LaRue or William S. Hart. Maybe if they mention William Boyd, Gene Autry and Roy Rogers it will be good enough.
Totally agree. The Twilight Zone was more of a drama than science fiction to me. Rod Sterling
sure does give off the vibe that he is his #1 fan......seemed quite pampas. A lot of the twilight
shows if you watch the first 5 minutes and the last 5, you've just about got it. I think they had
too much coverage of LOST IN SPACE and STAR TREK.
But as bad as it might sound I would like to see reruns of THE TIME TUNNEL and LAND OF THE GIANTS again.
sure does give off the vibe that he is his #1 fan......seemed quite pampas. A lot of the twilight
shows if you watch the first 5 minutes and the last 5, you've just about got it. I think they had
too much coverage of LOST IN SPACE and STAR TREK.
But as bad as it might sound I would like to see reruns of THE TIME TUNNEL and LAND OF THE GIANTS again.
UPDATE: Just checked in with TitanTV and here is the program note:
The history of westerns on television is covered, including Fess Parker's portrayal of Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett, the success of Walt Disney, James Garner's debut in "Maverick," the popularity of "Bonanza" and the creation of "Gunsmoke."
Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett were not 'westerns' and neither was a pioneer show.
I have no idea what Disney is doing in here except perhaps he produced both the above.
"Maverick" was a good western but again, not a pioneer.
And I just knew Bonanza and Gunsmoke would show up. Neither a pioneer.
Did PBS get a 21-year old to produce this garbage?
The history of westerns on television is covered, including Fess Parker's portrayal of Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett, the success of Walt Disney, James Garner's debut in "Maverick," the popularity of "Bonanza" and the creation of "Gunsmoke."
Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett were not 'westerns' and neither was a pioneer show.
I have no idea what Disney is doing in here except perhaps he produced both the above.
"Maverick" was a good western but again, not a pioneer.
And I just knew Bonanza and Gunsmoke would show up. Neither a pioneer.
Did PBS get a 21-year old to produce this garbage?
gregg75 said:
Since you brought it up spelling, the word is grammar, unless you are referring to Kelsey Grammer. ;D
These history shows are produced for the average American viewer not for us TV geeks. The average viewer will tell you sci-fi means Star Trek and Lost in Space. Westerns are Gunsmoke and Bonanza. I'm not defending the show because I was disappointed there was no mention of Have Gun Will Travel or Bat Masterson.
I'll be ticked if they don't have clips from Rango. ;D
What no Gabby Hayes?
Okay I didn't see this show, but the show had to contain Wanted Dead or Alive along with The Cisco Kid. Tell me the program omitted them.
Okay I didn't see this show, but the show had to contain Wanted Dead or Alive along with The Cisco Kid. Tell me the program omitted them.
ricksegers said:
I disagree. The title of the series is 'pioneers of....'. The word pioneers means 'early', 'original' etc. It does not mean 'popular' or 'current'.
I still submit an idiot developed this show and knows neither the respective genre's nor the history of early (pioneering) TV.
Gunsmoke was most certainly a pioneer of television. As it was explained on the program, it came out of radio and was the first western program on TV that had adult content. Remember when it first came on, it aired at 10 PM on Saturdays. It had very sophisticated plots, excellent acting and direction. It holds up very well today because of the quality of the series. If you don't believe me, check it out on Encore Westerns. If you can't watch B & W -don't bother.
Walt Disney had nothing to do with Daniel Boone. The program was produced by 20th Century Fox and Fess Parker's production company. Fess didn't get much out of all the money Davy Crockett generated and Daniel Boone was his attempt to cash in. The PBS show got this fact wrong. Apparently, the producers weren't big on research.
Yes, they barely mentioned the early TV Westerns, particularly The Lone Ranger. It was one of the first - if not the first - western filmed for television and it was the first ABC show to break into the top 10.
Only one brief clip of the Cisco Kid, which was not be considered PC today but was noted at the time for great production values and for being one of the first shows filmed in color.
Many of their choices of which shows to include and which not include were questionable and based on: Which shows they could clips from and which actors they could get to talk about them (they seem to be using a lot of the same actors each week). In this regard, the "pioneers" show was reminiscent of Biography. And the other factor seemed to be political correctness because the show seemed to focus on which shows gave significant roles to minorities and to reflect modern standards of ethnic relations. It might have been instructive to show some depictions which would not be acceptable today.
I especially take issue with the show's laudatory treatment of Gunsmoke, which was a bastardization of the radio show. Gunsmoke was completely unrealistic and does not hold up well. Ignored was Have Gun Will Travel, which does hold up well thanks to excellent writing (by Gene Roddenberry and Bruce Geller, among others) and Richard Boone's performance as Paladin. No mention of Rawhide (in which Clint Eastwood was second lead) and just cursory mention of Wagon Train, which brought some of the great movie stars of the era to the small screen (probably because they were clients of MCA, which produced the show).
They doted on The Rifleman, claiming it was "created by" Sam Peckinpah (he actually wrote and directed a few episodes), and then spent more time talking about his movies than his TV westerns.
Bottom line: A very sloppy, superficial job. Not ready for cable, let alone not ready for prime-time. It will probably become a pledge drive staple. Let's see how much they get wrong next week.
Yes, they barely mentioned the early TV Westerns, particularly The Lone Ranger. It was one of the first - if not the first - western filmed for television and it was the first ABC show to break into the top 10.
Only one brief clip of the Cisco Kid, which was not be considered PC today but was noted at the time for great production values and for being one of the first shows filmed in color.
Many of their choices of which shows to include and which not include were questionable and based on: Which shows they could clips from and which actors they could get to talk about them (they seem to be using a lot of the same actors each week). In this regard, the "pioneers" show was reminiscent of Biography. And the other factor seemed to be political correctness because the show seemed to focus on which shows gave significant roles to minorities and to reflect modern standards of ethnic relations. It might have been instructive to show some depictions which would not be acceptable today.
I especially take issue with the show's laudatory treatment of Gunsmoke, which was a bastardization of the radio show. Gunsmoke was completely unrealistic and does not hold up well. Ignored was Have Gun Will Travel, which does hold up well thanks to excellent writing (by Gene Roddenberry and Bruce Geller, among others) and Richard Boone's performance as Paladin. No mention of Rawhide (in which Clint Eastwood was second lead) and just cursory mention of Wagon Train, which brought some of the great movie stars of the era to the small screen (probably because they were clients of MCA, which produced the show).
They doted on The Rifleman, claiming it was "created by" Sam Peckinpah (he actually wrote and directed a few episodes), and then spent more time talking about his movies than his TV westerns.
Bottom line: A very sloppy, superficial job. Not ready for cable, let alone not ready for prime-time. It will probably become a pledge drive staple. Let's see how much they get wrong next week.
gregg75 said:
I'll DVR it when it airs Fri nite at 9:30 on WNET-13!
therealjm12 said:
As the TV version began in 1955 I would not call it a pioneer of the western genre. Perhaps as an adult western....maybe.
therealjm12 said:
I guess that depends on your personal opinion. Although it was more involved and complicated than an episode of The Cisco Kid for example it was leagues away from a believable drama. And next to a quality western such as "Maverick" it was pitiful.
MattParker said:
I think The Cisco Kid would be very acceptable today. It was one of the first shows to star two Latinos in leadership roles. The shows were largely moralistic and only rarely did the Kid and Pancho use gunplay instead of smarts to defeat the bad guys. It had great interplay between the lead characters, the requisite amount of comedy and it helped a great deal that Leo Carrillo was a genuine cowboy.
Keep in mind that this series wasn't produced by PBS, but by a small production company in Wisconsin. I agree with a lot of the comments here, that it overlooked a lot of things, and the things it included were covered in a cursory way. Not a lot of depth in Bonanza, because they didn't have interviews with any of the key players. For the same reason, they mentioned Maverick, showed a still of James Garner, but failed to spend much time with it, probably because they couldn't get fresh interviews. Then when they had interviews, they focused on documenting what the interview said, rather than starting with a narrative and finding interviews to further the story. It's sort of a Cliff's Notes approach to TV history, built around the interview material they could get, with the intent of selling DVDs, not actually presenting history. To me, the best series for that on PBS is American Masters. I never fail to learn something new on that show.
I thought they made it clear that DAVEY CROCKETT was a Disney show??? Daniel Boone was NBC.
Seems a lot of this boils down to them only having access to certain show clips and limited
interviews. Plus it was only an hour program and it's hard to cover everything in an hour.
I also think the old Gunsmoke shows do hold up well. I've seen a few of the 30 minute versions
lately and they really were ahead of their time.
The show was pretty good, but it was sub-par for PBS. Perhaps if the show budget had been
larger and our economy less tight they could have done a better job.
Seems a lot of this boils down to them only having access to certain show clips and limited
interviews. Plus it was only an hour program and it's hard to cover everything in an hour.
I also think the old Gunsmoke shows do hold up well. I've seen a few of the 30 minute versions
lately and they really were ahead of their time.
The show was pretty good, but it was sub-par for PBS. Perhaps if the show budget had been
larger and our economy less tight they could have done a better job.
Kansas was admitted to the union in 1861. Gunsmoke was set in the 1870s (after the civil war and the coming of the railroad). Dodge City would have a town marshal and a county sheriff (as was shown in "The Life and Legend of Wyatt Earp"). US Marshals would not be handling state and local law enforcement. Certainly not doing things like breaking up bar fights. Each state had/has only one US marshal. All other "marshals" were deputy marshals (as shown in Henry Fonda's series "The Deputy").
The radio show implied (although it did not state outright) just was Kitty's "profession" was - and just what the nature of Matt and Kitty's relationship was. But apparently that was too adult for a so-called TV "adult western." CBS made them take the staircase out of the Long Branch saloon and then came up with ridiculous conceit of Kitty becoming part owner (then owner).
C'mon, are we really supposed to believe a law enforcement officer would fight a duel in order to make an arrest, you know just walk into the street an invite a perp to draw on him? This show there was still a lot of kid left in the so-called "adult western."
The first producer and director of Gunsmoke, a hack B-picture director Charles Marquis Warren, completely screwed up the character of Chester by miscasting Dennis Weaver who, as pointed out, was too much of a leading man for the role - so they had to invent the limp to make him a sidekick. On radio, Chester Poudfoot (not Goode), apparently all or partly native-American, was much more like Festus, only dumber. Warren left after the first season and the radio team (Norman MacDonnell and Charles Meston) took over the TV version, with radio show still in production until 1961. At that point they were stuck with Weaver as Chester; a good actor but wrong for the role.
Arness never captured Dillon's darker side ("it's a chancy job and it makes a man watchful - and a little lonely") the way Robert Conrad did. Conrad's Dillon was intimidating, even scary.
Some shows hold up well. Most don't. Gunsmoke is one that doesn't.
____
The narration stated that Disney also produced Daniel Boone. NBC did not produce or own Daniel Boone. As I pointed out, the show came from 20 Century Fox and Parker's production company (Fesspar). And when Daniel Boone was on NBC, so was Walt Disney.
The radio show implied (although it did not state outright) just was Kitty's "profession" was - and just what the nature of Matt and Kitty's relationship was. But apparently that was too adult for a so-called TV "adult western." CBS made them take the staircase out of the Long Branch saloon and then came up with ridiculous conceit of Kitty becoming part owner (then owner).
C'mon, are we really supposed to believe a law enforcement officer would fight a duel in order to make an arrest, you know just walk into the street an invite a perp to draw on him? This show there was still a lot of kid left in the so-called "adult western."
The first producer and director of Gunsmoke, a hack B-picture director Charles Marquis Warren, completely screwed up the character of Chester by miscasting Dennis Weaver who, as pointed out, was too much of a leading man for the role - so they had to invent the limp to make him a sidekick. On radio, Chester Poudfoot (not Goode), apparently all or partly native-American, was much more like Festus, only dumber. Warren left after the first season and the radio team (Norman MacDonnell and Charles Meston) took over the TV version, with radio show still in production until 1961. At that point they were stuck with Weaver as Chester; a good actor but wrong for the role.
Arness never captured Dillon's darker side ("it's a chancy job and it makes a man watchful - and a little lonely") the way Robert Conrad did. Conrad's Dillon was intimidating, even scary.
Some shows hold up well. Most don't. Gunsmoke is one that doesn't.
____
The narration stated that Disney also produced Daniel Boone. NBC did not produce or own Daniel Boone. As I pointed out, the show came from 20 Century Fox and Parker's production company (Fesspar). And when Daniel Boone was on NBC, so was Walt Disney.
So, were "Davy Crockett" and "Daniel Boone" westerns? I never really thought so. I never really thought of "The Wild, Wild West" as a Western, either...More of a silly, but cool James Bond spoof (which they alluded to) set in the Old West. Another highly regarded show they barely mentioned was "Have Gun, Will Travel". Maybe the reason was that there have been legal hassles over te rights to that show for a long time.
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