New tabletop radio of the future from Sangean - WFR-20

[vsa]

Sangean is just a few days away from releasing their newest tabletop radio.

For those of you who ASSUME that people will always buy traditional-style radios to listen to "radio", you may find this model to be unsettling. You should be more than unsettled.

The new Sangean WFR-20 radio has no AM HD radio.

The new Sangean WFR-20 radio has no FM HD radio.

The new Sangean WFR-20 radio has no FMeXtra or even CAM-D.

The new Sangean WFR-20 radio has no AM section.

The new Sangean WFR-20 radio has no FM section either.

What's this? A radio without AM and FM, and no HD?

Who needs AM or FM or HD when you can have Wi-Fi radio?

The Sangean WFR-20 Wi-Fi Internet Radio offers direct access to over 6,000 Internet Radio stations (and 21,242 on-demand streams) in 250 locations from 60 genres.

http://www.sangean.com/product.php?model=WFR-20

I'm already seeing this advertised, ranging from $279 to $350 online.

Welcome to the future of radio!

 

[clouseau]

Let me see...

AC power only

Subscription to internet required.

Doesn't work in the car.

Marginally local at BEST.

and it's twice the price of what everyone thinks is overpriced and overvalued.

<sarcasm="on">
I'm sure Savage is terrified.
I know I am.
<sarcasm="off">

It's a good product offering, but I think radio will survive.


Clouseau

 

[vsa]

Let me see...

The Inspector says: - vsa says:

AC power only - just like almost every other table radio ever made

Subscription to internet required. - subscription? or Internet access? Looks like you already do

Doesn't work in the car. - neither do most regular tabletop radios

Marginally local at BEST. - do you take your tabletop radios down the block?

and it's twice the price of what everyone thinks is overpriced and overvalued. - similar in price to HD radios that deliver a maximum of dozens of HD2/HD3 stations, if you can set up an ugly antenna and can manage to pick up a signal.

<sarcasm="on">
I'm sure Savage is terrified.
I know I am.
<sarcasm="off">

It's a good product offering,  but I think radio will survive.    - yes, thousands of digital stations to suit your exact tastes. No reception problems. No signal limitations. All stations with an equally strong signal. No interference. Survival? Not without further belt-tightening and an aggressive Internet effort.


Clouseau - vsa

 

[Radioman100]

Another day, another post by vsa on the HD Radio board that has NOTHING to do with HD Radio!

Kinda reminds me of when I was a kid. I was in an Apple II users group and bought an Amiga. I took it to the UG to show it off. They weren't impressed. They were there to discuss Apples, not Commodores.

Vsa, your user's group is two boards down. Much like the Amiga UG I eventually joined, it doesn't see much action, but since you appear lost, I thought I'd point it out.

 

[vsa]

Another day, another post by vsa on the HD Radio board that has NOTHING to do with HD Radio!

Kinda reminds me of when I was a kid. I was in an Apple II users group and bought an Amiga. I took it to the UG to show it off. They weren't impressed. They were there to discuss Apples, not Commodores.

Vsa, your user's group is two boards down. Much like the Amiga UG I eventually joined, it doesn't see much action, but since you appear lost, I thought I'd point it out.

Very interesting. I was the first person in my town at the time to own an Amiga 1000. I helped them to unload the delivery truck. Later, I also owned an Amiga 500 and 2000.

Anyway, my post has EVERYTHING to do with HD radio if you are interested in the future of radio. If you're wondering why HD radio sales are so slow, anyone wanting radio with a low noise floor and multiple choices has much more powerful and versatile alternatives already. HD radio has been "leap-frogged". Just like DCC digital compact cassettes were leap-frogged.

I hate to put it this way, but the discussion here is largely about how to keep the ice farm, ice delivery and icebox industry alive following the invention of the refrigerator/freezer. Yes, people still buy ice, but not how they once did.

 

[clouseau]

I think it is precious that people keep talking about "better programming". Of course when I point out..

Marginally local at BEST.... the response is...

Do you take your tabletop radios down the block?

Err.. No. The local I'm talking about is what radio can provide and internet basically can NOT. LOCALISM. Your news, Your Weather, Your upcoming events, Your traffic, Your Live eye on the world, Your Neighborhood, Your Scores, Your COMPANION.

I know it's hot stuff to talk about more music. If you want more music, turn on your IPOD. Cough up $15.00 and get XM or Sirius.

The next day internet radio actually tells me anything about where I live will be the first.

It just isn't amuch tighter competition than the Movies or TV. It's competition for your TIME, not for the product. Obvioulsy some of you feel otherwise. We've always had the "I don't listen to you any more" people. Sorry. Nothing New.

Clouseau

 

[Radioman100]

Despite vsa's assertions to the contrary, I'm still pretty sure that a radio with no HD Radio tuner in it has nothing to do with HD Radio.

Is the webcasting board so slow that you feel you have to come post off topic here?

 

[LinoNYC]

Presenting....


Kerbango II


More "Radio Like" -Wireless

More Expensive -Impress Your Friends

Legal disclaimer: Internet connection required. Reception and sound quality depends on prevailing conditions and stream bitrate, desired stations my not allways be available, interruptions may occur.

Gee, I can plug it in, hook it up boot it up and search for a station just as I can with my computers.

This is a specialty item, not to be confused with a trendsetter.

Lino

 

[clouseau]

Presenting....


Kerbango II


More "Radio Like" -Wireless

More Expensive -Impress Your Friends

Legal disclaimer: Internet connection required. Reception and sound quality depends on prevailing conditions and stream bitrate, desired stations my not allways be available, interruptions may occur.

Gee, I can plug it in, hook it up boot it up and search for a station just as I can with my computers.

This is a specialty item, not to be confused with a trendsetter.

Lino

Hold on... It's really unfair to say this is like a computer...

My Computer lets me visit Message boards.

My Computer lets me type letters.

My Computer gets and delivers email.

My Computer lets me file FCC apps and Make enough moeny to post here.

My Computer Let's my Wife update her Classroom page for her students.

My Computer Sends faxes around the world at the touch of a button.

My Computer is pretty old and runs Windows 98. (one of them) I bought it 3 months ago . I'm using it now. It costs a lot less than this radio. (Under $200 since I had a monitor in a closet)

$225 with a wifi card to connect to my router...

And for just a few more $10 bills I could get a nice clean radio without all this added nuisances like this board and the internet?

I'm a little short right now...

Maybe NEXT month...

I even left out the funny part about how my Broadband was down for the last 2 hours.

I watched TV and listened to the radio so I could respond. Of course in fairness I guess this model probably would have entertained me with " Buffering... Buffering... Buffering..."



Clouseau

Clouseau

 

[Dighton Rockhead]

From clouseau:
The local I'm talking about is what radio can provide and internet basically can NOT. LOCALISM. Your news, Your Weather, Your upcoming events, Your traffic, Your Live eye on the world, Your Neighborhood, Your Scores, Your COMPANION.

Exactly correct Inspector. Internet radio is as local as the local 1 Kw daytimer down the street that can't compete with its market-mates due to no night signal. Same goes for any other "un-viable" signal in a given market.

Behold "The Great Equalizer"......Internet Radio. Every station in a given market has the potential to compete on an equal footing......something HD doesn't offer for those "in the cheap seats" of broadcasting.

The new Sangean model, and ones like it are just forerunners of the soon coming WiMax revolution. It's not portable yet, but neither is HD radio for the time being.

The revolution will be broadcast......with as much localism (or virtual DXing) as anyone could possibly hope for.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

Anyway, my post has EVERYTHING to do with HD radio if you are interested in the future of radio.

Based on this logic, vsa, I am curious why you singled this board out, instead of spamming, er... I mean "posting" this same message to every single board in this entire Radio-Info forum. Why not harp about WiFi's merits on all the other boards?

This is the same logic that, back in the 40s, would have sounded a lot like this: "This [Television] post has Everything to do with the future of Radio." Hmmm... Radio is still here, half a century after TV "killed" it. Over-the-Air TV is still here two decades after cable "killed" it.

 

[Radioman100]

Based on this logic, vsa, I am curious why you singled this board out, instead of spamming, er... I mean "posting" this same message to every single board in this entire Radio-Info forum. Why not harp about WiFi's merits on all the other boards?

This is the same logic that, back in the 40s, would have sounded a lot like this: "This [Television] post has Everything to do with the future of Radio." Hmmm... Radio is still here, half a century after TV "killed" it. Over-the-Air TV is still here two decades after cable "killed" it.

I've wondered the exact same thing about all the webcasters that have spammed this forum.

To me, it seems like they fall into one of two camps. Either they're frustrated terrestrial radio wannabees that see posting about webcasting in this forum as a way to spite the radio establishment, or (and I think this is the case with vsa) they're either developing or have developed some web based service to sell the radio establishment and see this forum as a way to plant seeds in executive minds. After all, those execs aren't likely to read the webcasting board or the Idaho board. If they're visiting at all, this is probably one of their destinations. My best guess about vsa is that he's one of the "me too" consultants preaching doom and gloom to the radio industry unless the industry purchases his divine and inspired guidance to lead them to the internet promised land.

Here's the thing. The industry doesn't need those consultants. People like vsa will see why over the next few years. Several of the biggest radio groups already have all encompassing web strategies.

For savvy broadcasters, the web is a piece of the puzzle. It's certainly not the entire puzzle though, and those who think it is will look as silly someday as those who predicted 8-Tracks and MTV were going to be the death of radio.

 

[vsa]

I think it is precious that people keep talking about "better programming". Of course when I point out..

Marginally local at BEST.... the response is...

Do you take your tabletop radios down the block?

Err.. No. The local I'm talking about is what radio can provide and internet basically can NOT. LOCALISM. Your news, Your Weather, Your upcoming events, Your traffic, Your Live eye on the world, Your Neighborhood, Your Scores, Your COMPANION.

I know it's hot stuff to talk about more music. If you want more music, turn on your IPOD. Cough up $15.00 and get XM or Sirius.

The next day internet radio actually tells me anything about where I live will be the first.

It just isn't amuch tighter competition than the Movies or TV. It's competition for your TIME, not for the product. Obvioulsy some of you feel otherwise. We've always had the "I don't listen to you any more" people. Sorry. Nothing New.

Clouseau

Radio via the Internet can be as local as it wants to be. It can cherry pick exactly the market it wants to serve without regard to an FCC ordained signal. There will come a time when someone will decide to serve a given market with a hundred stations online. My questions is, WHY HASN'T ANY BROADCASTER EVEN THOUGHT OF DOING THAT NOW?

 

[vsa]

Anyway, my post has EVERYTHING to do with HD radio if you are interested in the future of radio.

Based on this logic, vsa, I am curious why you singled this board out, instead of spamming, er... I mean "posting" this same message to every single board in this entire Radio-Info forum. Why not harp about WiFi's merits on all the other boards?

This is the same logic that, back in the 40s, would have sounded a lot like this: "This [Television] post has Everything to do with the future of Radio." Hmmm... Radio is still here, half a century after TV "killed" it. Over-the-Air TV is still here two decades after cable "killed" it.

Are you so enamored with FCC sticks that you can't even recognize a superior form of radio delivery? No. You think pitifully bad HD radio technology is your savior. Radio is being challenged with a better form of radio, not by television or something else.

 

[vsa]

Based on this logic, vsa, I am curious why you singled this board out, instead of spamming, er... I mean "posting" this same message to every single board in this entire Radio-Info forum. Why not harp about WiFi's merits on all the other boards?

This is the same logic that, back in the 40s, would have sounded a lot like this: "This [Television] post has Everything to do with the future of Radio." Hmmm... Radio is still here, half a century after TV "killed" it. Over-the-Air TV is still here two decades after cable "killed" it.

I've wondered the exact same thing about all the webcasters that have spammed this forum.

To me, it seems like they fall into one of two camps. Either they're frustrated terrestrial radio wannabees that see posting about webcasting in this forum as a way to spite the radio establishment, or (and I think this is the case with vsa) they're either developing or have developed some web based service to sell the radio establishment and see this forum as a way to plant seeds in executive minds. After all, those execs aren't likely to read the webcasting board or the Idaho board. If they're visiting at all, this is probably one of their destinations. My best guess about vsa is that he's one of the "me too" consultants preaching doom and gloom to the radio industry unless the industry purchases his divine and inspired guidance to lead them to the internet promised land.

Here's the thing. The industry doesn't need those consultants. People like vsa will see why over the next few years. Several of the biggest radio groups already have all encompassing web strategies.

For savvy broadcasters, the web is a piece of the puzzle. It's certainly not the entire puzzle though, and those who think it is will look as silly someday as those who predicted 8-Tracks and MTV were going to be the death of radio.

You are a terrible guesser. You also are avoiding the issue. Internet radio will ultimately be the death of terrestrial radio and all you can do is ridicule someone who's casting pearls before swine. Shame on me for wasting my time in trying to wake you up.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

All my local stations stream on the internet. Some daytimers continue on the net with night time programming. Local content is plentyful. Distances near or far, local content, or even signal are non-issues with internet/WiMax/WiFi. Some say about WiFi and WiMax "that's not radio". Then what is it?

Most HD stations are also available using the same AAC Plus codec that HD radio uses. Some internet stations often have even higher quality birates then HD radio.

HD promoters and stick owners are so hung up on controlling what people (in their exclusive "franchised" area) are allowed to listen to, defending what they feel is exclusively "their turf", stuck on their sticks and old ways of thinking about media, that they can't see the forest for the towers.

Newspapers, Radio, and even TV should be on the forefront of planning and creating new media if they don't want to be stuck in the past.

Listeners care about compelling content, not the delivery system. Only radio people are hung up on an obsolete ideas about what the consider "radio".

Even more shocking to old media is the idea that the internet is bi-directional full duplex, almost instant and interactive. Streaming content can be on demand, customized, archived, and can include all communication elements except touch and smell, though I'm sure that is coming.

 

[LinoNYC]

touch and smell, though I'm sure that is coming.

Hopefully, not to your posts.

Lino

 

[clouseau]

Radio via the Internet can be as local as it wants to be.

Yes it can. However ECONOMICS dictate it can't be local at all. This isn't like TV where the transmitter can go down and due to cable there is almost no change in audience. Internet is an "Add on" at best.

It can cherry pick exactly the market it wants to serve without regard to an FCC ordained signal.

Yes it COULD do that. Of course the tens of listeners in an area make the idea of localized "Internet" radio an economic disaster.

There will come a time when someone will decide to serve a given market with a hundred stations online. My questions is, WHY HASN'T ANY BROADCASTER EVEN THOUGHT OF DOING THAT NOW?

Not to be flip, but you aren't the first MENSA candidate to think of this. The answer is economics. Economics makes for crappy programming. How many of your hundred stations will have anyone live on air? How many of your hundred stations will be assigned to one PD? How many of your hundred stations will have someone emplayed by the netcaster actually listening to them. Heck, we've got a majority of regualr radio stations that dion't always have someone listening. Are these hundred stations actually going to have a studio for each stream? How about an actual dedicated computer monitor to see what is going on. This whole idea is so unworkable, THAT"S why "no one has thought of doing it".

Let's assume you could increase your CURRENT station revenue by a factor of 10 by going this route. WOW, I like ten times the revenue. To get there, I would have to pretty much increase my total number of listeners to all streams combined by 10 times what it is now. Makes sense, right?

Most of the population already uses radio each week, but lets say its only 50%. If EVERYONE listened at their current rate to any of my 100 stations, I would still need to increase their Time Spent Listening or TSL by a factor of 5 times. That means the average weekly TSL would need to increase from around 5 Hours a week to around 25 hours a week.

Assuming you had just a tiny bit of trouble achieving these numbers, you'd need to cut some costs to make ends meet. Like people and ultimately programming. So now were probably talking about a hundred computers sitting side by side with someone creating program logs all day to keep something on. OR... Are we just going to put thwese things on "Auto" and let them play "Shuffle". We still have to schedule all of this wonderful choice content we're getting.

You see..... If you get 10 times the money and do 100 times the EXISTING work, you actually are only getting 10% of the revenue PER STREAM even under these insanely positive assumptions I made in this example..

Do you REALLY think you are the first one to think of an idea like this?

No one DOES it because it's out there beyond Neptune in terms of viability.

Ya know, it's just vaguely possible that every single person in the entire broadcast industry isn't an idiot..

Clouseau

 

[Mike Walker]

As for thw Wi-Fi radio not having HD, so HD must be dying...my XM radio doesn't have AM, or FM...so they must be dying. My DirecTV doesn't have Dish Network, so it must be dying.

Actually internet radios should incorporate HD, and vice versa (satellite too). The more (formats) the merrier, especially since they're all simply receiving packets of data...in this case audio. Much of the circuitry can be shared, so this makes economic sense. I'd quickly snap up one radio that received everything, or most everything, that I listen to.

 

[Radioman100]

You are a terrible guesser. You also are avoiding the issue. Internet radio will ultimately be the death of terrestrial radio and all you can do is ridicule someone who's casting pearls before swine. Shame on me for wasting my time in trying to wake you up.

Yes, for spamming the HD Radio forum, shame on you!