New York Metro Radio Ratings: October 2023

[Barry]

I still think a Jack type variety hits format could be an improvement for 94.7. First of all it’s relatively cheap to program, with its brief recorded jokes.
I think many people enjoy listening to several genres of music, which this format can provide.
Classic rock is doing well now, so it could be a part of the mix. Throw in some alt. and pop hits. Maybe even some Country.
And the music mix can be continually tweaked, for what works best.

 

[TheBigA]

I still think a Jack type variety hits format could be an improvement for 94.7.

Different sales demos than this. They apparently want to sell to this audience, and they're willing to get lower ratings.

 

[MichaelD1972]

Throwback hip hop isn't working on 94.7. I don't know what other formats are available for that station country dosen't work

I can't think of any other formats either. They may have to flip to a music format that directly competes with a high rated or high cumed station. The question is how do they do it without cannibalizing it's sister stations like WCBS-FM or WNEW-FM so that rules out any kind of AC. I would say CHR or Classic Rock, but that's already been tried on 92.3 years ago. If all else fails, then simulcast WCBS 880 as a last resort.

 

[MichaelD1972]

I still think a Jack type variety hits format could be an improvement for 94.7. First of all it’s relatively cheap to program, with its brief recorded jokes.
I think many people enjoy listening to several genres of music, which this format can provide.
Classic rock is doing well now, so it could be a part of the mix. Throw in some alt. and pop hits. Maybe even some Country.
And the music mix can be continually tweaked, for what works best.

If 94.7 had a different owner, I would say they should go Variety Hits. The problem is that it might start taking demo numbers from WCBS-FM or WNEW-FM. Perhaps it could go to 98.7 after the LMA with ESPN/Disney ends in several months.

 

[TheBigA]

Perhaps it could go to 98.7 after the LMA with ESPN/Disney ends in several months.

They need the money to pay down their debt. Spending $50 million on a station that might make $10 million is probably not a good idea right now.

 

[Jeffrey]

Throwback hip hop isn't working on 94.7. I don't know what other formats are available for that station country dosen't work

How do you know it's not working? Do you know their revenue?

 

[MichaelD1972]

They need the money to pay down their debt. Spending $50 million on a station that might make $10 million is probably not a good idea right now.

Are you talking about its current owners of 98.7, Emmis? I think Emmis will likely sell the station when the LMA ends. Then the new owner could try a Jack-FM type of Variety Hits format if they wish.

 

[RMarino]

I wasn't there at the time, but I think they DID start it from scratch, and it knocked heritage talker WDBO to second place in the talk genre, despite both being on FM. I'll concede success probably wasn't overnight. Someone with ratings books should be able to make an informed post on how long it took them to get to the position they are now.

As someone who was there at the time, I can tell you WTKS did not start from scratch. It started as a simulcast of a heritage AM News/Talk 740 WWNZ.

 

[davideduardo]

There is lots that could be tried. The problem is that I don't think Audacy has any money to invest in something more ambitious than just spinning records. What could be a real opportunity is to be the LOCAL talker with young hosts that talk about what young people are interested in. New York / Tri State topics that are not primarily political in nature

"Young people" use podcasts. Their content on their schedule.

If Audacy wanted to get more adventurous, taking steps to work with an advertiser as a real sponsor/producer of content could be an idea.

Advertisers don't have the time and money to experiment with one station in one market with an unproven format. Do it, if it works, after 6 to 8 books of good ratings, they will buy . Agencies don't have the time or budget to experiment.

A radio comedy series would be unique and might draw listeners in for the sheer novelty of it. But anything in this regard will take money and a willingness to take chances, both of which are in short supply.

It's been done, and it did not work.

If you are talking about original content, radio does not have the budget to do that. And no comedian cam come up with several hours of new content each day, every day. They come up with an hour or so of content, and repeat it over and over in different venues across the country for months and months, add one or two new topical jokes each couple of weeks. Do you know how many writers and staff members are needed to do just on Saturday Night Live each week?

 

[davideduardo]

Audacy brought back alternative rock in SF and is a success. Make give it one more try NYC

Moderate success in a very different market in every respect.

 

[davideduardo]

I wasn't there at the time, but I think they DID start it from scratch, and it knocked heritage talker WDBO to second place in the talk genre, despite both being on FM. I'll concede success probably wasn't overnight. Someone with ratings books should be able to make an informed post on how long it took them to get to the position they are now.

The flip to the current FM talk format was done decades ago when the Orlando population was much higher, percentage-wise, in 45 and over. Today, the market is younger, and it is 30% Hispanic. Big difference and big change in the station's share.

 

[TheBigA]

Are you talking about its current owners of 98.7, Emmis?

You started talking about 94.7. They're not in buying mode. My view is that if Emmis wants top price for 98.7, it won't go to an owner who will program variety hits. Emmis has already said it's for sale, and ESPN/Good Karma isn't interested. Variety Hits is not among the higher billing formats.

 

[coreynj2461]

Wonder how many listeners switched from 101 to Q with 101 playing significantly more 90s. Past years they were way ahead in the ratings H2H with Q

 

[chrocket87]

Youth-focused talk!?! Try threading the needle with topics that appeal to even more ethnically-diverse demographics than what exists in the overall market.

 

[MVB13]

I can see 94.7 going Adult Hits. Not sure if it can compete with the other Hip Hop stations. Who could buy 98.7? Knowing our luck it will be a Christian broadcaster and it will be another complete waste.

 

[SCMcKinney]

Youth-focused talk!?! Try threading the needle with topics that appeal to even more ethnically-diverse demographics than what exists in the overall market.

Yes, talk that is focused on what the under 40 crowd might be interested in. There are many topics that can cross over ethnic lines - TV does it every night. What might they be interested in? The high cost of living and housing might be a starter. (Keep the calls off political blaming). Health,gov care plans need to be figured out in a couple of weeks - what works and what doesn't. New York is the epicenter of performing talent. Broadway on and off, and a regular review of what is good and what to avoid - invite caller input. Following the entertainment line, what number of comedians would like to get exposure and what number of small clubs would like to see their tables filled? A segment with a taste of what they offer could be a piece of the programming. The same talent isn't repeating every day - the tri state is big enough that 20 individuals could be found each month, I would bet. I don't think Dr. Judy or Dr. Laura ran out of callers, and a hip modern version of them could get the lovelorn calling in.

Younger people DO a lot of their listening via podcast, but I think I have read that data still shows that Persons Using Radio is still decently high. Unless the radio business is going to give up on the next generation, make what radio offers something they can't get in a podcast, and something they will tolerate commercials for. As far as listening on their schedule goes, do what NPR does and make the program readily available after broadcast. The commercials can still be on that podcast. But I am betting that if the programs are good and relevant, they will switch their phone over from the internet to the radio and listen in real time.

If the Block goes, plugging in another 24/7 cheap-to-produce music format is just rearranging the deck chairs. Simulcasting 880 is also a lost cause for significantly higher revenue. New formats are needed. Creative people work in radio - if money can be found (and I am sadly not sure that it can be), try somethings new and different.

 

[CTListener]

Audacy brought back alternative rock in SF and is a success. Make give it one more try NYC

Gotta convince all those pesky folks with rhythmic music in their DNA to leave first.

 

[davideduardo]

Younger people DO a lot of their listening via podcast, but I think I have read that data still shows that Persons Using Radio is still decently high.

PUR is a deceptive measure. It counts the number of people who listen at least on quarter hour in a whole 168 hour week. It's only useful in trying to convince uninformed politicians and legislators to further protect radio.

A better measure is persons using radio, formerly PUR. It shows what percentage of all people, on average, listen to radio throughout the day or the dayparts. In the 6 AM to Midnight measurement, in 2002 between 18% and 21% of all people 12+ (depending on the market) listened. Today that figure is around 5%.

Unless the radio business is going to give up on the next generation, make what radio offers something they can't get in a podcast, and something they will tolerate commercials for.

One of the biggest issues for the formats preferred by those under 35 is the percentage of hits that can't be played on the radio due to content.

As far as listening on their schedule goes, do what NPR does and make the program readily available after broadcast. The commercials can still be on that podcast. But I am betting that if the programs are good and relevant, they will switch their phone over from the internet to the radio and listen in real time.

Over 30% of homes have no radio at all any more. People are not going to rush out to buy radios to hear some folks chatting about sewage or parks.

If the Block goes, plugging in another 24/7 cheap-to-produce music format is just rearranging the deck chairs. Simulcasting 880 is also a lost cause for significantly higher revenue.

That FM has deficient coverage and would not match the 880 signal. In the case of WINS, the FM added a lot of population to the west that is inside the New York MSA.

New formats are needed. Creative people work in radio - if money can be found (and I am sadly not sure that it can be), try somethings new and different.

If you look at broadly defined format categories, you will see that there are between one and two totally new ones per decade.

Most "new" formats like "Jack" (Adult Hits) are variations on old ones. New formats since the 1950's are rare: Top 40 and R&B (now called "Urban" by many) in 1951, "Beautiful Music" in the very late 50's / early 60's, All News in 1960, Album rock in the late 60's. AC in the 70's, Smooth Jazz in the 80's, Spanish Adult Hits in the 2000's.

Most other formats are variations: Urban AC, Rhythmic CHR, Hot AC, Smooth AC, Churban, etc.

 

[SCMcKinney]

PUR is a deceptive measure. It counts the number of people who listen at least on quarter hour in a whole 168 hour week. It's only useful in trying to convince uninformed politicians and legislators to further protect radio.

A better measure is persons using radio, formerly PUR. It shows what percentage of all people, on average, listen to radio throughout the day or the dayparts. In the 6 AM to Midnight measurement, in 2002 between 18% and 21% of all people 12+ (depending on the market) listened. Today that figure is around 5%.

I guess I am confused. I thought the pollution of the PUR figure was that it was starting to include podcasts as part of "radio," but even with that the number was still pretty good. If it is down to 5%, unless something is drastically done, it is pretty much game over. Cheap to program is all that could be done, which would be too bad.

percentage of hits that can't be played on the radio due to content.

Over 30% of homes have no radio at all any more. People are not going to rush out to buy radios to hear some folks chatting about sewage or parks.

I think the prospect of getting the under 30 crowd listening to music (even if they could spin unsafe for AM airplay lyrics) on commercial radio is going to get very hard to do with the availability of free internet alternatives that come in through the phone or internet which is nearly 100% in every home or pocket. That is why I think new formats are needed that don't focus on music as the main event. The youthful talk ideas I suggested above are not going to talk about sewage or parks or public radio 'save the world' issues. They are going to be fun, relatable topics that millennials are texting each other about. That's a format that I think is just starting and needs to be tried in larger markets.

I also think that radio and advertisers need to think differently about how they offer/buy the time. A sponsored comedy series could be just the ticket for a company that needs to burnish their credibility/relationship with their customers. InBevAB is going to spend millions trying to save Bud Light. Suppose they arranged with I-Heart AC stations to run a 15 - 30 minute sitcom type series that focused on cool people having fun. InBevAB would pay for the production. I-Heart would provide a set period of daytime daypart to run the show on not one station, but potentially everywhere they have an AC presence. Since many AC stations kind of go on auto-pilot after the morning show anyway, a something like this, if well done could punch up the image of the station overall?

What is it that WTKS is doing right, that KEGL is apparently not? Experienced radio people could probably tweeze out what that is and make the adjustments as necessary in a new format roll-out. Figuring out what topics to discuss and which to avoid would almost be as tricky as figuring out which records to play and which to not spin, but I would bet it could be done.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Audacy brought back alternative rock in SF and is a success. Make give it one more try NYC

The irony is that every time Audacy, or one of its corporate predecessors, tried to do Alternative in NYC, the execution was terrible. They always brought in some hotshot programmer who thought he knew better than everyone else, and who massively over-thought how to program the format, and ruined it instead.

Now that alternative has been exiled to a never-to-be-heard HD2 channel, the music mix and the imaging are actually sounding better than ever. In fact, it finally sounds exactly the way an alternative station should sound, programmed the way it should have been done in NYC all along, musically anyway. It's too bad they could never manage to do this, with the addition of some star air talent, when it was on a main FM channel where people could hear it.