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Newbie trying to figure out how to transmit station ID (serial port)

R

rvdolson

Family members took over a small, local radio station running off some old radio gear with a satellite feed. They also have a computer running Simian Pro that periodically would "break in" and broadcast station ID or other custom programming.

I *believe* Simian signaled to the radio gear to switch from the satellite feed to its own feed by sending a serial command (have found reference to the macro "SERIAL *301" and "SERIAL *302" before and after the station ID is played, respectively).

The hard drive on this computer crashed -- and it's extremely old to boot. I agreed to help get the new system set up. Lucky me -- I'm trying to get a crash course on all of this from 600 miles away. :)

Based on the above, does anyone have any ideas what type of device I'd need to send the appropriate serial commands to the radio gear would be? The previous computer had a PCI-DIO24 card, but I'm not sure it will work in this new computer. BSI recommended we replace it with a GPI-16 trigger card, but now that I have it installed, it seems only that it will *respond* to triggers, not generate signals to attached gear.

I'll try and get some family members to go by the station and get me model numbers or pictures or something, but am hoping the above rings some bells to someone.

Any radio gear you can think of that would respond to the serial commands above? The new computer does appear to have an older PCI slot, so I'm hopeful I can re-use the PCI-DIO24 card, but am curious if anyone can suggest a "modern" replacement, or perhaps I just need a serial cable with the right adapter to connect to the radio gear.

Thanks -- sorry for the vagueness!
 
You have half of the solution, the DIO24 card. The other half can be found--eventually--at mccdaq.com (who made the DIO24 card.)

Buried in their product offerings are their ERB series relay boards, which take a pull-down from the DIO24 card to activate the relay.

Now--first problem will be the new computer which may not have a PCI slot. However, there is a usb device which will do the same thing: USB-DIO37 ($99). This can be commanded by Simian's "relay rack" feature. Then you need the relay board, which part number I don't remember at the moment (it's there somewhere on their site ERB8 or something like that) which is about $129 for 8 relays, more of course for a larger board that runs 24 relays. Third item is a ribbon cable between the DIO37 card and the relay board, final item a 5 volt supply to run the relays (the DIO37 runs off the USB's 5 volt buss).

This setup will give you 8 "dry" contacts to switch whatever you want. We have Simian, and use the relay board to turn channels on and off on our console in response to the triggers from the satellite shows we run. Normally we take three different satellite feeds during the day--today we are running a fourth, a state basketball tournament feed, using this equipment.
 
Many thanks for the reply!

So, thinking out loud here ... since this was working fine before the older computer crashed -- I wonder if we already have the necessary pieces?

  • I have the DIO24 card. The new computer (Dell Precision T7600) does have a single 32-bit PCI slot.
  • Since things were working in the "old" configuration with the DIO24 card, I'm thinking we may already have a relay board and power supply.

The only thing I'm a little bit foggy on is whether or not the relay board (you mention the ERB8 (http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-ERB08.aspx) attaches directly to the computer as well? The ERB8 is a USB deviced so it makes me think it does.

Since I'm not sure what relay board we were using, I'm not sure if it would be able to connect to our "new" computer. Will see what I can find out there.

Can you describe what the various devices wire up to me? My impression is:

  • DIO24 is installed into one of the PCI slots obviously. It then connects to the ERB8.
  • We use a 5-volt power supply to connect to the ERB8 via USB to provide it with power
  • The ERB8 then connects out somehow to our radio gear (the part I still don't know much about yet).

Thanks again!
Ray
 
I'll dig up the exact part number--just bought a relay board from Measurement Computing a couple of weeks ago. It connects to the DIO card; don't think the USB relay card will listen to Simian.

You need two of the DIO style cards. The satellite receiver activates one of its relays for various functions such as station ID or to trigger local breaks (many receivers have as many as 16 relays for this purpose). The DIO card tells Simian that it has received a trigger or net-cue on one of its 24 inputs. The programing in Simian then tells it to do something--play an ID, start a break, etc.

The other function is outgoing. You could use the older style PCI DIO cards for this, the newer USB style (like the one I cited) are more convenient. Using the "relay rack" function or by programing a relay macro (download the manual for specific programing instructions) Simian talks to the USB board which then pulls down the appropriate lead to the relay board to click the relay. The relay can then be used to control something else to switch audio.

I'll try to get the exact model number tomorrow and post it--I couldn't find it on their web site either.
 
Looked at the pictures....

The GPI16 will handle the relay commands (triggers) from the satellite receiver. It appears to have a USB connection, whether Simian can talk to it over the USB I don't know. I have a GPI32, memory is we use a serial/usb adapter to talk to it.

The GPI-16 will tell the computer to start a break or play audio as needed. If you have a console to run the audio through, you can use Simian's ability to play jingles over programming intros by running the computer into one channel, and the output of your Broadcast Tools switcher into another channel.

The Broadcast Tools switcher is also a serial device. Under the "hardware" tab you have options to set up both an input and output devices. If you can get Simian to talk to the switcher via a serial port or USB adapter, then you can use a macro to turn off the satellite feed during breaks.

The USBDIO37 and the relay board (which is a CIO-ERB08) would then not be needed. If you can't get Simian to communicate directly with the switcher this would be one method, as the switcher can also be controlled directly (pulling a connection to ground switches the inputs).

The PCI card, as I now remember, is no longer supported by the newer versions of Simian.

One other thing: Simian is very happy under XP-Pro. It will also work under 32 bit Windows 7, but not very well under 64 bit Windows 7.
 
Thanks so much for your replies.

The GPI16 does have USB (as you allude to) and does work with Simian.

I'm going to try the old PCI DIO board first and see if Simian 2.2 works with it (under Windows 7 32-bit). If it doesn't, we'll try the direct serial route (or perhaps try that first as it *appears* from the old program logs I have that this is what they were doing) and as a last resort order the new USB DIO card.

Either way, this is all making a lot more sense in my head now. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain and describe.

Will be giving all of this a try in a couple of weeks and will report back with how things goes.
 
Vague, receding memory from a distant past...

The PCI DIO card used pull-up resistors if you were going to use it for inputs, if not,the resistors (something like 2.2K single-in-line arrays) were removed. Or visa versa, maybe.

Also, you would need the software from Measurement Computing---you may get lucky & find a CD.
The current USB devices use a program called "Instacal," which, of course, won't work with the old DIO PCI card.
 
Hello everyone!

(Mostly) great success has been achieved....

Was able to hook up the new computer and connected its serial port to an M-Audio switch device. This lets me send signals to it to bounce back and forth between input sources.

I had to use the old PCI slot in the new computer to house the older M Audio audio card which feeds directly into the switch device. So we can now break in and start our station ID broadcasts again.

Trying to figure out how to handle triggers though. We have an ABR202 receiver which, under the old setup, output to our PCI-DIO24. I'm trying to figure out how to get it connected to our GPI-16. The cable on the receiver end is probably fine, but it looks like I need to take the other end and run the wires directly into the block on the GPI-16.

I've been reading the ABR202 manual -- specifically the pinouts for the male relay port, but it's not clear how all of these correspond with the input terminal on the GPI-16. For example, there is a closure 1A and 1B and sensors. Am not sure if one or both of these terminate on terminal 1 on the GPI-16...

More reading to be done!
 
Used to have a manual for the ABR--it's on the internet at:

http://www.sasltd.com/T/pdf/abr202man.pdf

1A/1B are relay pin outs--in other words relays or triggers or netcues (terms interchangeable for this purpose) sent by the satellite program to the receiver would close relay #1. The GPI 16 would be looking for an external signal pulling each input to ground (using the normal configuration--look at their manual). Here's the pin-outs on the satellite receiver:

1 O RC1A Relay Closure Contact 1A,14 O RC1B Relay Closure Contact 1B
2 O RC2A Relay Closure Contact 2A,15 O RC2B Relay Closure Contact 2B
3 O RC3A Relay Closure Contact 3A,16 O RC3B Relay Closure Contact 3B
4 O RC4A Relay Closure Contact 4A,17 O RC4B Relay Closure Contact 4B
5 O RC5A Relay Closure Contact 5A,18 O RC5B Relay Closure Contact 5B
6 O RC6A Relay Closure Contact 6A,19 O RC6B Relay Closure Contact 6B
7 O RC7A Relay Closure Contact 7A,20 O RC7B Relay Closure Contact 7B
8 O RC8A Relay Closure Contact 8A,21 O RC8B Relay Closure Contact 8B

So, for a typical installation (GPI16 looking for a pull-down to ground) you would connect pins one through 8 of the 25 pin "D" on the ABR202 to one through 8 of the GPI16. Then connect pins 14 through 21 of the ABR202 to the ground pins of the GPI16, which are pins 17 and 18 (or terminals--they may be using a "euroblock" screw terminal block for their inputs, the manual is ambiguous).

When the satellite program fires relay three, (or netcue three) for example, relay three is activated, shorting pin 3 to pin 16. This then shorts the #3 input of the GPI16 to ground, the GPI16 then tells the computer "Hey--I've just been told trigger 3 has been activated." Simian then interprets this to do whatever you have in your trigger set for a trigger 3 activation (run ID, start stop-set, etc.).

Your satellite provider probably has a web site that tells you how many different relays they use for your programing, so you may only need to hook up three or four relays, instead of all 8. Remember, too, with Simian you can set up different trigger sets to do different things. So if one program off the ABR202 sent an ID closure on relay 2, while another used that relay for break start, you just program different commands into each trigger set, and load that different trigger set by time for each program. Also, if you run one program from 6 to 6 off the ABR 202, and a different program off another receiver, you could assign the first four inputs to triggers coming from the ABR202, and the next four from, say, a Dial Global Ipump or Cumulus XDS receiver, --using inputs 5 through 8 on the GPI16 for that receiver. Your trigger set program would then be used to sort out who is talking to the computer.
 
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