News at the top of the hour?

[b-turner]

Most automation will begin recording and play back as it comes up, typically continuing to record the news while playing it back.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Most automation will begin recording and play back as it comes up, typically continuing to record the news while playing it back.

True (in fact, I think all the automation software out there can do that now), but AMRadioGuy wants the automation to somehow act as an on-the-fly music scheduler instead ... 🙄

 

[xmtrland]

You do have RCS that makes Selector and Zetta. With enough set up I bet it could do the Job. Then there is the issue of an instrumental at the end of each hour. Depending on your genre and format that might be tough. With that in mind it would be better to let the hour drift to better accomplish both if news is really needed. If you were live assist then you can hit the timed event like a network news feed.

Most stations taking a top of the hour or a timed event are All News or News Talk stations that run live assist or full automation, no music involved there.

Some stations leave the profanity delay in line most of the time, there is at least 8 seconds, some talk stations have more delay time. Then add another second or two at least for getting the signal to the transmitter and shoved through the processor. On FM, running HD, add more time, say 12 seconds. An FM I listen to has 21 seconds delay. The top of the hour news tone comes out of the speakers 21 seconds past the top of the hour. If your AM is carried on an HD2,3,4.....More delay when listening to the HD signal.

I can actually tell what time it is by listening to certain local stations and hearing who is on the air. Depending on how may spots are played and how they go into or out of a spot block can tell me what part of the clock they are on.

 

[crainbebo]

I notice some small-town FM stations that still have network TOH news vary on whether they want to use the 1 to 2-minute availability, or the full 5-minute newscast. Is there any type of reasoning as to why some go with one length vs. the other?

SRN has a unique system. The news begins at :55 past the hour for the non-comms (Moody Radio NW is one that airs at this timeslot). Then another 5min. feed at :00, a 1-minute newscast at :53, and another newscast at :30. I believe :55 is live and :00 is taped as the SRN personalities (Rich Thomason, Bob Agnew, etc.) read the TownHall.com newscast at the top of the hour. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[tvnut]

Not just small-town FMs opt out of the back end of network news on the hour. So do major outlets. WBBM Chicago, a CBS affiliate, does the same for a majority of hours of the day. What had been a 5 minute 30 second newscast (before that 6 minutes, before that 10!) is taken down to 2:30 or 3:00 or so, including the network ad. That rarely happened when CBS owned WBBM, though the CBS World News Roundup routinely lost its last segment, as did The World Tonight / World News Roundup Evening. And still does.

The same happened to NBC Radio News on the Hour in the days of real NBC. The last 30-45 seconds after the network commercial was optional. A lot of stations in big markets and small opted out.

 

[K.M. Richards]

You do have RCS that makes Selector and Zetta. With enough set up I bet it could do the Job. Then there is the issue of an instrumental at the end of each hour. Depending on your genre and format that might be tough. With that in mind it would be better to let the hour drift to better accomplish both if news is really needed. If you were live assist then you can hit the timed event like a network news feed.

Admittedly, I have not dug very deeply into the "mechanics" of such a scenario, I would think that -- even if the automation software interfaced with the music scheduling software in a way that allowed what the OP suggested -- the scheduler rules common to any music format would add a layer of complexity, and might even create problems of its own where song/artist rotations, rest periods, etc. are concerned. So I am very much inclined to agree with your "that might be tough" statement.

Given the way that the news services have increasingly made it easier for stations to carry them on a delay, as crainbebo showed using SRN as an example and lots of optional "outcues" and newscast lengths, I think the point should have been moot by now, unless there is more to the OP's point than just the news. If we are talking about a live sporting event feed, I think that is a case where a station should have someone go into live assist mode to handle the join.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I notice some small-town FM stations that still have network TOH news vary on whether they want to use the 1 to 2-minute availability, or the full 5-minute newscast. Is there any type of reasoning as to why some go with one length vs. the other?

SRN has a unique system. The news begins at :55 past the hour for the non-comms (Moody Radio NW is one that airs at this timeslot). Then another 5min. feed at :00, a 1-minute newscast at :53, and another newscast at :30. I believe :55 is live and :00 is taped as the SRN personalities (Rich Thomason, Bob Agnew, etc.) read the TownHall.com newscast at the top of the hour. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Town Hall did the news on a station in Charlotte that I mentioned. They scheduled their music perfectly. Every single hour ended with the first few seconds of a song followed by the top of the hour station ID and whatever newscast there was. It wasn't Town Hall to begin with.

 

[vchimpanzee]

The pips are still fairly common in Europe. I can even get you an example in Luxembourgish if you really want it. (In my recording, the RTL local service faded the song - Alphaville's Sounds Like a Melody - down before the top of the hour.)

The DJ said the pips are coming up and that's the most important thing we do.

 

[charlestondxman]

How many major market music stations these days have news at the TOH?

Automation will play whatever you want, whenever you want it. You have three choices: time all the music to end exactly at the TOH, have the automation fade music out whenever the timed event is scheduled, or as I mentioned, some will stretch or shrink the song before the timed event to hit it on the nose.

But is there really much of an excuse, either, in our modern computer-driven world? Also no.

There's zero financial benefit to making an automation system hit the TOH for a newcast, so why bother? Because your old boss wanted you to? Because a handful combination of board ops from the 70's and radio nerds still care? Get real.
I'll bet that 99.999% of anyone who cares about such a thing wouldn't go out of their way to spend one cent at a station sponsor, or donate to a station who hit the TOH with news.

Going back to the start of the Iraq War in 2003/2004 was probably the last time many music stations had TOH news every hour. It still happens in AMs and rarely, afternoon drive but never at other times. Clear Channel would have news under their own label. It was big especially after 9/11. But that was more than 2 decades ago.

 

[AMRadioGuy]

True (in fact, I think all the automation software out there can do that now), but AMRadioGuy wants the automation to somehow act as an on-the-fly music scheduler instead ... 🙄

I am aware of how most automation systems currently work and have worked with music schedulers.

It befuddles me, though, that these all need to be separate entities. It's not 1995 anymore, after all. If the music scheduler could be flexibly incorporated into the playout software, changes could be made in real time to get times lined up, etc.

The whole, one system for traffic, one system for music, then lets merge those logs together along with a generic template into something for a separate automation playout system seems... antiquated to me.

 

[K.M. Richards]

The whole, one system for traffic, one system for music, then lets merge those logs together along with a generic template into something for a separate automation playout system seems... antiquated to me.

Except for your wish about on-the-fly music scheduling, show me why you feel the current setup is broken. Because if it isn't broken, no one is going to fix it. Nor should they.

I have a situation where the status quo works just fine. Traffic cannot makes changes in programming, and in fact I generate the daily music logs from an entirely different location than the automation playback machine.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I don't know how accurate the clock is in the car I was driving today, but precisely as the little kid said "My gwampa's favowite station" and did the legal station ID, the clock changed from 2:59 to 3:00 and the anchor said, "CBS News on the hour."

 

[K.M. Richards]

I don't know how accurate the clock is in the car I was driving today, but precisely as the little kid said "My gwampa's favowite station" and did the legal station ID, the clock changed from 2:59 to 3:00 and the anchor said, "CBS News on the hour."

Maybe the anchors should say "CBS News on the hour, or thereabouts."

 

[xmtrland]

And if your listening to a news/talk station on FM with HD the CBS news will be around 21 seconds past the hour by the time you hear it.

 

[cc333]

WBBM Chicago, a CBS affiliate, does the same for a majority of hours of the day. What had been a 5 minute 30 second newscast (before that 6 minutes, before that 10!) is taken down to 2:30 or 3:00 or so, including the network ad. That rarely happened when CBS owned WBBM, though the CBS World News Roundup routinely lost its last segment, as did The World Tonight / World News Roundup Evening. And still does.

I've noticed that with KCBS. I never noticed before, but it seems like in the past couple of years, the network news segment (which, by the way, happens within seconds of the TOH on KCBS) has gotten shorter than I remember.

Clear Channel would have news under their own label. It was big especially after 9/11. But that was more than 2 decades ago.

It's incredible that it's been over two decades since 9/11. I remember that sad, terrible day as if it were yesterday!

c

 

[Mark Roberts]

I've noticed that with KCBS. I never noticed before, but it seems like in the past couple of years, the network news segment (which, by the way, happens within seconds of the TOH on KCBS) has gotten shorter than I remember.

That happened on KCBS about 10 years ago, before CBS sold off its radio division to Audacy. Presumably this is to allow more time for the local news segments. KCBS still carries the first 8 minutes of the World News Roundup at 7 am and the first 7 minutes at 4 pm.

The full hourly newscasts are still carried on the weekends.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Clear Channel would have news under their own label.

[nitpick mode on]

That syntax is something that drives me crazy, and it's all over Wikipedia.

"Would have" is a phrase that applies only if something was considered but not implemented. If it actually happened, the correct way to state it is by use of the past tense.

Clear Channel had news under their own label after 9/11.
or
Clear Channel began a news operation under their own name after 9/11.

[nitpick mode off]

 

[Mark Roberts]

[nitpick mode on]

That syntax is something that drives me crazy, and it's all over Wikipedia.

"Would have" is a phrase that applies only if something was considered but not implemented. If it actually happened, the correct way to state it is by use of the past tense.

I'll get even nitpickier. Let's look at the original quote:

Going back to the start of the Iraq War in 2003/2004 was probably the last time many music stations had TOH news every hour. It still happens in AMs and rarely, afternoon drive but never at other times. Clear Channel would have news under their own label. It was big especially after 9/11. But that was more than 2 decades ago.

While awkward, the use of "would" is actually proper in this instance if the intent is to describe something that used to occur, but which no longer does. This is a consequence of the word "would" having multiple uses in English: as a modal auxiliary to describe a hypothetical/probable situation - a conditional mode - or a "future in the past" situation, or a "formerly habitual" situation, or as a polite request ("Would you/could you....?") In a Romance language, the conditional is a distinct mode, while the "formerly habitual" situation would be expressed by the past continuous ("imperfect") tense.

Whether the writer's intent was to describe a formerly habitual situation is something I'm guessing at, which means the sentence could have been written more precisely to begin with.

Why this usage proliferates on Wikipedia is a whole other question; I have a certain distaste for Wikipedia anyway.

 

[K.M. Richards]

While awkward, the use of "would" is actually proper in this instance if the intent is to describe something that used to occur, but which no longer does.

While technically correct, it sounds wrong and using the past tense is clearer. IMHO, YMMV, batteries not included, Member FDIC.

 

[Mark Roberts]

While technically correct, it sounds wrong and using the past tense is clearer. IMHO, YMMV, batteries not included, Member FDIC.

I wonder how one would visually represent the speeded-up (sped-up?) audio typical of the disclaimers on radio commercials.