The problem with placing the network on a digital subchannel, I assume, would be that cable and satellite distribution would be low or non-existent, especially in a giant Hispanic market like New York. The most logical move would be to launch the channel on MyNet affiliates if they want to be considered a serious competitor.
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News Corp, Colombia's RCN to develop 'MundoFox' US broadcast net
- Thread starter easttxtv
- Start date
radiojomo said:
It would also be harder to launch in HD. Not impossible, just harder.
Here are the 25 largest Hispanic DMAs
I think FOX could easily put the network on the subchannels of their O&O stations. FOX wouldn't have any trouble getting cable clearance as they could simply tie it into the retrans agreements. In other words, if you want WWOR you have to carry the subchannels. If you want Fox Sports and Fox News you have to carry WWOR's subchannels. It should be an easy negotiate.
As for HD, doesn't Fox use 720? If so they should be able to do two 720 channels with the bandwidth.
- 01) Los Angeles
- 02) New York City
- 03) Miami
- 04) Houston
- 05) Dallas
- 06) Chicago
- 07) San Antonio
- 08) Phoenix
- 09) San Francisco
- 10) Harlington TX
- 11) Sacramento
- 12) Albuquerque
- 13) San Diego
- 14) Fresno
- 15) Denver
- 16) El Paso
- 17) Orlando
- 18) Philadelphia
- 19) Tampa
- 20) Washington
- 21) Atlanta
- 22) Austin
- 23) Las Vegas
- 24) Boston
- 25) Tuscon
I think FOX could easily put the network on the subchannels of their O&O stations. FOX wouldn't have any trouble getting cable clearance as they could simply tie it into the retrans agreements. In other words, if you want WWOR you have to carry the subchannels. If you want Fox Sports and Fox News you have to carry WWOR's subchannels. It should be an easy negotiate.
As for HD, doesn't Fox use 720? If so they should be able to do two 720 channels with the bandwidth.
radiojomo said:
No, you really don't understand the economics of Fox's stations and My Network TV.
Let me restate this: Fox WILL NOT flip ANY of its My Network TV O&O stations to this new network - period. Ain't gonna happen.
This new MundoFox thing is a joint venture with a foreign broadcaster. They have to split revenue with them on it.
The ratings will be tiny at first. Fox's My Network TV stations have an audience. It may not be huge, but in some cases it's quite competitive. Why throw all that away for an untested network in another language that will take years to develop a following where you have to split revenue with a partner? Fox does not do things that way.
I can absolutely see Fox putting this network on some of their O&O subchannels and on cable (their own news release seems to hint at just that) - but it will not be on the main channel of any of their stations.
tested said:
Do you have ratings for My Network TV? I know they're rated as a syndication block and the ratings are hard to find. But let's be real. Before they cut off access to their ratings as a network, they were the lowest rated of the six networks. I wouldn't say that that's very competitive.
With a market like Los Angeles that has a 40% Hispanic audience, Spanish isn't just "another language". I could see their strategy being to carry the station on a main channel in large Hispanic populated areas and then carry the channel on subchannels in smaller areas.
radiojomo said:
I do not have current national ratings for My Network TV - and that's not really all that relevant to this discussion. (but, for what it's worth, before they changed to syndicated ratings, My Network TV was fairly regularly outdrawing CW in overall viewers) I'm talking about the overall ratings for Fox's My Network TV stations. That's for the whole day, not just the 2 hour prime time hole the network fills. Fox runs a ton of syndicated fare on these stations and they have a decent, but usually little, audience. A lot of that syndicated stuff comes from Fox, but some of it doesn't. It would be insane, even in Los Angeles, for Fox to drop the english language programming in favor of this new, untested spanish language format. They can stick it on a subchannel just fine and probably get it on cable. That's really all they need to do. No harm in that and instead of totally losing one audience, they have the potential to gain an entirely new one.
tested said:
Well, ratings are relevant in any discussion because they equal ad revenue. For all we know, they could be losing money and have very low ratings, but then again, it could be the opposite. The only reason why they were ever outdrawing The CW on some nights was because they were carrying WWE wrestling on Fridays and some local affiliates aired sports games, which propped them up tremendously.
tested said:
This format is not necessarily untested. Telefutura is a large consumer of RCN's programming. For example. RCN's telenovela "El Capo" (which airs on Telefutura) does very well and consistent outperforms Telemundo. There has also been many RCN telenovelas that have done well for the network. In addition, corporate plans on creating local news broadcasts for the MundoFox network. Local news production is very costly for a network, so I would assume that Fox isn't taking this venture lightly as many think. My question to you is, why not stick MyNetworkTV on a subchannel?
You have to wonder how many Spanish stations any market can support. In Chicago, three full power Spanish stations and at least one low power station may have saturated the market.
If any FOX station went Spanish, this might force one of the Spanish stations to return to English. The problem being, more Spanish people also speak English than vice versa. This means more Spanish people can also watch English channels. This spreads out the market even more.
I wonder what big a difference it would make if say, in Los Angeles, FOX puts their Spanish net on KCOP's main channel and MY on their KCOP.2 channel?
If any FOX station went Spanish, this might force one of the Spanish stations to return to English. The problem being, more Spanish people also speak English than vice versa. This means more Spanish people can also watch English channels. This spreads out the market even more.
I wonder what big a difference it would make if say, in Los Angeles, FOX puts their Spanish net on KCOP's main channel and MY on their KCOP.2 channel?
radiojomo said:
No, I don't think you get it. (and maybe I'm not being clear) You're talking about the ratings for prime time nationally on My Network TV affiliates. That's 2 hours out of a 24 hour day. This discussion is about whether Fox would flip one of their My Network TV O&O stations - all 24 hours of it - to this new spanish language network. The NATIONAL ratings for the 2 hours of My Network TV are not all that relevant in this discussion since we're talking about what they would do with all 24 hours of a LOCAL station.
Let me put it this way.. The Fox My Network TV O&O's run a ton of syndicated material from Fox and other companies to fill out their 24 hour schedules. The ratings for these stations vary, but they have a decent following for much of their programming. Flipping one or more of those stations to MundoFox would hurt Fox's syndication arm, destroy My Network TV and would not absolve Fox of the financial responsibility for the syndicated programming they got from other distributors. There is simply no upside to doing that.
radiojomo said:tested said:
This format is not necessarily untested. Telefutura is a large consumer of RCN's programming. For example. RCN's telenovela "El Capo" (which airs on Telefutura) does very well and consistent outperforms Telemundo. There has also been many RCN telenovelas that have done well for the network. In addition, corporate plans on creating local news broadcasts for the MundoFox network. Local news production is very costly for a network, so I would assume that Fox isn't taking this venture lightly as many think. My question to you is, why not stick MyNetworkTV on a subchannel?
Because there are more people who speak english than speak spanish in all of these markets - including Los Angeles. What you're talking about would be financial suicide for the Fox station group.
They're going to look for full power affiliates where they can, but the easiest route to getting this thing on the air by the fall is the put it on subchannels on their current O&O stations and get those subchannels on cable too. You start with the biggest markets in the country and you can then start getting interest from stations in some of the other markets. If you read their news release, this sounds like exactly the plan they're going to follow.
Looks like MundoFox isn't going to be on KCOP afterall. Instead, according to the WHOIS records, Meruelo Enterprises, Inc. is the registrant of MundoFoxLosAngeles.com. Meruelo, of course, owns KWHY (channel 22) and runs independent programming right now. This makes sense, as KWHY currently has a news department. Good call chicano82 and apologies to tested, I was wrong on Fox dropping MNT for MundoFox, however, it does look like they found some full power affiliates. Hope all is good.
http://whois.domaintools.com/mundofoxlosangeles.com
UPDATE: Went through plugging in some market names into the URL, and saw that mundofoxlosangeles.com was registered to Meruelo, BUT mundofoxla.com is registered to Fox. Who knows what this means...
http://whois.domaintools.com/mundofoxlosangeles.com
UPDATE: Went through plugging in some market names into the URL, and saw that mundofoxlosangeles.com was registered to Meruelo, BUT mundofoxla.com is registered to Fox. Who knows what this means...
On the other hand, 20th Century Fox Film Corp. Intellectual Property Dept. owns mundofoxphoenix.com.
Purely speculation: KSAZ SD feed could be disappearing from RF ch 26 (Virt ch 10.2) in favor of MundoFox, or even more interesting, MundoFox could take over 45.1 with its must-carry status, relegating MyNetworkTV to 45.2.
As a top-10 Hispanic market with an O&O duopoly already in place, Phoenix should be a highly sought-after market for MundoFox.
Purely speculation: KSAZ SD feed could be disappearing from RF ch 26 (Virt ch 10.2) in favor of MundoFox, or even more interesting, MundoFox could take over 45.1 with its must-carry status, relegating MyNetworkTV to 45.2.
As a top-10 Hispanic market with an O&O duopoly already in place, Phoenix should be a highly sought-after market for MundoFox.
dhett said:
So what you're saying is Fox would be willing to take their My Network TV affiliate where they get 100% of the ad revenue and stick it on a second subchannel and reduce its cable carriage in favor of a format that would require Fox to share ad revenue with the Columbian broadcaster so that this new format could get the cable carriage? In a word: no! That's not going to happen.
Read that article posted above. It points out a very important stat: a lot (30%+) of spanish-speaking households in this country do not have cable. Getting on a full-power broadcaster that has the ability to get on cable is important, but getting on a subchannel would do just fine too. I think they will do all they can to find full-power affiliates that are not owned by Fox, but barring that.. they'll go with subchannels on Fox O&O stations. Those O&O's have some leverage to get subchannels on cable. I think that's the route they'll have to take in some markets.
For the record, my speculation was that MundoFox would replace the 10.2 Fox feed, and that putting MundoFox on 45.1 would be even more interesting.
Having said that, Phoenix isn't "most of the country". Here, Spanish-speaking people come from all walks of life and income strata. But even if Phoenix were average, and 30% of Spanish speakers don't have cable, that means that 70% do. Since the Phoenix metro area, currently about 4.5 million people, is about 40% Hispanic, that's 1.8 million people, or 1.25 million cable subscribers, the majority of whom speak Spanish, and most of them from Mexico or Central or South America. And I think that here, cable/satellite subscription rates among Hispanics is pretty close to that of the general population. The Spanish-language television market here is lucrative - just ask Univision, which boasts the #1 newscast in the market, and recently, the #1 station with adults, regardless of language. Meanwhile, ever since losing Phoenix Suns basketball, channel 45's schedule has been moribund. So yeah, it's plausible that even sharing revenues with a Columbian broadcaster, MundoFox could generate higher revenues for Fox than MyNetwork does now, provided that Fox could put quality programming on the channel to rival Univision, something that the Telemundo O&O has so far failed to do.
Beside that, your statement that "O&O's have some leverage to get subchannels on cable" tears apart your argument that Fox wouldn't put MundoFox on a .1 subchannel. With the influence you say they have, they should have no trouble getting MyNetwork on cable as a .2 sub. So then it becomes a question of who gets the "prestigious" .1 slot, and in Phoenix, it's a very good possibility that it could be MundoFox.
Having said that, Phoenix isn't "most of the country". Here, Spanish-speaking people come from all walks of life and income strata. But even if Phoenix were average, and 30% of Spanish speakers don't have cable, that means that 70% do. Since the Phoenix metro area, currently about 4.5 million people, is about 40% Hispanic, that's 1.8 million people, or 1.25 million cable subscribers, the majority of whom speak Spanish, and most of them from Mexico or Central or South America. And I think that here, cable/satellite subscription rates among Hispanics is pretty close to that of the general population. The Spanish-language television market here is lucrative - just ask Univision, which boasts the #1 newscast in the market, and recently, the #1 station with adults, regardless of language. Meanwhile, ever since losing Phoenix Suns basketball, channel 45's schedule has been moribund. So yeah, it's plausible that even sharing revenues with a Columbian broadcaster, MundoFox could generate higher revenues for Fox than MyNetwork does now, provided that Fox could put quality programming on the channel to rival Univision, something that the Telemundo O&O has so far failed to do.
Beside that, your statement that "O&O's have some leverage to get subchannels on cable" tears apart your argument that Fox wouldn't put MundoFox on a .1 subchannel. With the influence you say they have, they should have no trouble getting MyNetwork on cable as a .2 sub. So then it becomes a question of who gets the "prestigious" .1 slot, and in Phoenix, it's a very good possibility that it could be MundoFox.
dhett said:
Hardly tears it apart at all. 45.1 is already on cable as the My Network TV affiliate. The trick is getting a second channel on cable, something I think Fox could do if they had to. There's no logic at all in taking the channel you get 100% of the ad sales from and moving it off its cable spot for less desirable location so you can give the prime spot to the channel you only get 50% of the ad sales from. The MundFox programming will have to build an audience. It's unlikely it will outrate the My Network TV station for a while. It's also unlikely it would outrate it by enough to make half it's billing worth more than the billing of the My Network TV station. Maybe that would happen way down the road, but you can't assume that will happen and hope to recoup your losses by destroying your english-language outlet in the meantime.
The fact is Fox is going to look for full-power affiliates owned by other companies. If they can't do that, I think they'll go the subchannel route on their O&O stations.
tested said:
All MundoFox would have to do is get twice the viewers that the current channel 45 lineup with MyNetwork prime time does. In this market, that's not out of the question, provided MundoFox has a quality schedule. As for other full-power affiliates in Phoenix, none are available, unless they want to work with either KCFG Flagstaff or KMOH Kingman, neither of which gets cable coverage in Phoenix. KAZT is successful in its current form after having dodged becoming an Azteca America affiliate 10 years ago; they have no reason to switch. KTVK is successful as a full-power indie; they have no reason to switch.
Besides, if dumping MyNetwork for MundoFox makes no sense, why would any affiliate want to dump their current affiliation for MundoFox, which again makes only 50% of possible revenues to start with? My prediction stays the same: MundoFox replaces the Fox SD feed on ch 45 initially, but I would not rule out Fox moving MundoFox to 45.1 and putting MyNetwork on 45.2.
I found an article that says MundoFox will announce their first affiliates on Monday March 5. Here's the link:
http://www.mediamoves.com/2012/02/m...e-agreements-kwhy-to-be-flagship-station.html
http://www.mediamoves.com/2012/02/m...e-agreements-kwhy-to-be-flagship-station.html
silverthree said:
So far, KWHY 22 Los Angeles and WJAN-LD 41 Miami are confirmed. Cocola Broadcasting's KGMC 43 Clovis/Fresno is also said to be slated as an affiliate.
In Phoenix, the discussion between tested and me RE: KUTP turns out to be moot. Although the press releases don't specify the affiliate, process of elimination reveals the Phoenix affiliate to be KEJR-LD 40, simulcast on KMOH 6 Kingman.
A Latin Heat Media press release states that Hero Broadcasting is an affiliate partner. Hero owns only three stations: KBEH 63 Oxnard/Los Angeles, KMOH 6 Kingman and KEJR-LD 40 Phoenix. KMOH is a simulcast of KEJR's primary subchannel. Since we already know that the Los Angeles affiliate will be KWHY, that leaves KMOH/KEJR as the new MundoFox affiliate in Phoenix.
Another group listed is Prime Time Partners. The only "Prime Time" owner I could find is Prime Time Christian Broadcasting, owners of KMLM 42 Odessa, KPTB 16 Lubbock, KPKS-LP 51 San Angelo, and several stations in smaller cities. Odessa, Lubbock and San Angelo are listed as cities receiving initial MundoFox affiliates.
Prime Time Partners is the name of the company that is looking to buy WSPF-CA in Tampa. http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/offer-for-tv-channel-is-too-quick-too-cheap/1202486
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