Now that 1240 has flipped to Hip-Hop Gospel music with the new calls KRJY (Gee! Erase the J and add an O and we have KROY back again! mmmmmm) So who knows where the KSAC Call Letters will wind up? They've got to be a prize for some radio operator! Will another Sacramento station pick them up or have they already done so?
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OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer?
- Thread starter RadioStarOne
- Start date
Does one suppose those calls will go back to where they
came in the 1980s: Kansas State University? ;D
nawwwwwwwww...
--jay
P.S. - I noticed the one-letter difference, too, but didn't
think much of it...
BTW, the KROY calls are still attached to a silent station
in Texas (last I saw a few months ago), but KRQY
is still available <smile!>...
came in the 1980s: Kansas State University? ;D
nawwwwwwwww...
--jay
P.S. - I noticed the one-letter difference, too, but didn't
think much of it...
BTW, the KROY calls are still attached to a silent station
in Texas (last I saw a few months ago), but KRQY
is still available <smile!>...
J
jvparent
Guest
Nice thought -- and it would almost make sense, had not K-State sold and turned off KKSU a few years back.
I'd suggest CC might take the calls for their new 93.3 move in, presently known as KJDX...but this would imply creativity on CC's part. Wouldn't want to go THERE, would we?
I'd suggest CC might take the calls for their new 93.3 move in, presently known as KJDX...but this would imply creativity on CC's part. Wouldn't want to go THERE, would we?
Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer
They were on a 107.5 FM out of Sutter Creek for a while. The only FM in the area that I know of to have ever gone dark.
They were on a 107.5 FM out of Sutter Creek for a while. The only FM in the area that I know of to have ever gone dark.
T
Tube Shortwave
Guest
Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer
That FM was built in the wrong location, with way more transmitter power than licensed, with way more antenna bays/gain than licensed, with a taller tower than licensed, and got shut down by the FCC and the license cancelled!
The 'engineer' Lee Granlund (sp?) built that thing blatatly illegal and finally got caught. Justice!!
Similar to what is going on with KBYN and KCFA right now. But, nobody's talking...
DaveBayArea said:
That FM was built in the wrong location, with way more transmitter power than licensed, with way more antenna bays/gain than licensed, with a taller tower than licensed, and got shut down by the FCC and the license cancelled!
The 'engineer' Lee Granlund (sp?) built that thing blatatly illegal and finally got caught. Justice!!
Similar to what is going on with KBYN and KCFA right now. But, nobody's talking...
Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer
It's funny you should mention that. Did you know that owners of KCFA/KBYN were operating one of the KCFA translators as a repeater of KLOC 1390 AM at 105.7? Or that for a time back 2004 I believe they were doing a legal ID for 106.1 as KCFA, Yuba City? They do operate with their own set of rules.
I think they may still be operating a translator near Modesto at 106.7 that provides its own programming. As far as I know, you cannot originate programming on a translator except for a once an hout 30 second plea for support, a separate legal ID or EAS broadcasts.
Tube Shortwave said:
It's funny you should mention that. Did you know that owners of KCFA/KBYN were operating one of the KCFA translators as a repeater of KLOC 1390 AM at 105.7? Or that for a time back 2004 I believe they were doing a legal ID for 106.1 as KCFA, Yuba City? They do operate with their own set of rules.
I think they may still be operating a translator near Modesto at 106.7 that provides its own programming. As far as I know, you cannot originate programming on a translator except for a once an hout 30 second plea for support, a separate legal ID or EAS broadcasts.
T
Tube Shortwave
Guest
Yes, I know.
Nelson Gomez (KBYN/KCFA owner) also ran two high powered pirate stations on 106.7 and 104.5 from the top of Fowler Peak for over a year before the FCC finally busted him. He just can't seem to follow rules... I guess when you are a lawyer, you figure you can do whatever you want.
I spoke to the engineer that DF'ed and turned in the two pirate stations. From what he described, it was quite an operation! Directional dipole antennas with a screen reflector pointed at Modesto and gobs of power, fed by a 900 MHz. STL! Blatant disregard for rules. I believe it is all public record by now.
Nelson Gomez (KBYN/KCFA owner) also ran two high powered pirate stations on 106.7 and 104.5 from the top of Fowler Peak for over a year before the FCC finally busted him. He just can't seem to follow rules... I guess when you are a lawyer, you figure you can do whatever you want.
I spoke to the engineer that DF'ed and turned in the two pirate stations. From what he described, it was quite an operation! Directional dipole antennas with a screen reflector pointed at Modesto and gobs of power, fed by a 900 MHz. STL! Blatant disregard for rules. I believe it is all public record by now.
Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer
I didn't realize it was illegal. I live just a few miles from where that tower was/is on highway 88. It's still standing - but with no antennas on it whatsoever. When it was running there were 4 bays, only about 1/2 way up the tower. Even if what you say is true (I have no reason to doubt that it is) their signal still sucked. The 107.5 from Chico booms into this area like a local. I just figured that station suffered from too much interference as they tried to serve Sacramento and they went belly-up. I notice also that the other station you talk about in this thread - KBYN - has a CP to move to "City of Angels". Of course they probably claim 1st service to that community, but their signal just happens to also cover Sonora, Angels Camp, and San Andreas. Meanwhile, those of us in the highway 88 corridor have local radio on an SCA channel or via the Internet.
Dave B.
I didn't realize it was illegal. I live just a few miles from where that tower was/is on highway 88. It's still standing - but with no antennas on it whatsoever. When it was running there were 4 bays, only about 1/2 way up the tower. Even if what you say is true (I have no reason to doubt that it is) their signal still sucked. The 107.5 from Chico booms into this area like a local. I just figured that station suffered from too much interference as they tried to serve Sacramento and they went belly-up. I notice also that the other station you talk about in this thread - KBYN - has a CP to move to "City of Angels". Of course they probably claim 1st service to that community, but their signal just happens to also cover Sonora, Angels Camp, and San Andreas. Meanwhile, those of us in the highway 88 corridor have local radio on an SCA channel or via the Internet.
Dave B.
Michael,
The Commission has recently clairified that an FM translator may broadcast an out and out commercial. This was for a case in Alaska. However they did say you could use a rate card except that the 30 seconds is meant to offset operating costs and the translator should not make a profit beyond the cost of construction and on-going operations.
My question is that are they going to examine your books next?
Also could a restriction on not making a profit on a commercial license (the licensee pays a regulatory fee) be upheald by the US Court of Appeals?
Newsperson
The Commission has recently clairified that an FM translator may broadcast an out and out commercial. This was for a case in Alaska. However they did say you could use a rate card except that the 30 seconds is meant to offset operating costs and the translator should not make a profit beyond the cost of construction and on-going operations.
My question is that are they going to examine your books next?
Also could a restriction on not making a profit on a commercial license (the licensee pays a regulatory fee) be upheald by the US Court of Appeals?
Newsperson
Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer
Dear Newsperson--
What????????????????????????????????????????????????
You misunderstood my post.
No translator may originate it's OWN programming except for a plea of support or an EAS message. A translator must rebroadcast full powered FM station (commercial or noncommercial) at all times. Period...
A translator may NOT originate it's own programming nor may it exclusively rebroadcast an AM at this time. 105.7 was rebroadcasting 1390 AM and 106.7 was a translator broadcasting its own programming...This means it's OWN programming separate like it was a regular radio station with it's own music programming and announcements.
My books? Where did you get that from?
My comment was about programming origination. I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WEATHER A TRANSLATOR IS MEANT TO BE PROFITABLE OR NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My comment about working by their own rules is regarding the fact that KCFA Arnold, California was broadcasting their Top of Hour legal ID as.....KCFA, Yuba City.....some 100+ miles away.... and that they were running a translator as if it were a SEPARATE RADIO STATION!
This broadcasting company has a reputation....Read the other posts!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Ah journalism at it's finest.
newsperson said:
Dear Newsperson--
What????????????????????????????????????????????????
You misunderstood my post.
No translator may originate it's OWN programming except for a plea of support or an EAS message. A translator must rebroadcast full powered FM station (commercial or noncommercial) at all times. Period...
A translator may NOT originate it's own programming nor may it exclusively rebroadcast an AM at this time. 105.7 was rebroadcasting 1390 AM and 106.7 was a translator broadcasting its own programming...This means it's OWN programming separate like it was a regular radio station with it's own music programming and announcements.
My books? Where did you get that from?
My comment was about programming origination. I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WEATHER A TRANSLATOR IS MEANT TO BE PROFITABLE OR NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My comment about working by their own rules is regarding the fact that KCFA Arnold, California was broadcasting their Top of Hour legal ID as.....KCFA, Yuba City.....some 100+ miles away.... and that they were running a translator as if it were a SEPARATE RADIO STATION!
This broadcasting company has a reputation....Read the other posts!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Ah journalism at it's finest.
S
Stage5Clinger
Guest
Hey MRK,
I think you misunderstood newsperson. Yes, he was unclear with his your books comment. It took me offguard as well, but I believe he was refering to everyone's books in general. It think going off on him is anti-communicative.
Can't we all just get along.
I think you misunderstood newsperson. Yes, he was unclear with his your books comment. It took me offguard as well, but I believe he was refering to everyone's books in general. It think going off on him is anti-communicative.
Can't we all just get along.
Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer
Okay...Fair enough...my apologies....But I think he was misunderstanding what I was writing about earlier about translator rules.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt about the books comment.
Stage5Clinger said:
Okay...Fair enough...my apologies....But I think he was misunderstanding what I was writing about earlier about translator rules.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt about the books comment.
S
Stage5Clinger
Guest
Yay! That why we love you, and your dialogue on the boards. You're a cupcake. ;D
Michael, MRK.
Just signed back in. Yes I was refering to any translator owners books and not yours. I re-read my post and I see how that jumped out.
I'm not sure what KFCA is doing with their translators. They are alowed to use a morse code identifier instead of a local ID. As far as broadcasting 100 miles away, wel that is well beyond the 2.0 milliovolt contour of the AM.
.......I just re-read your last post....KFCA - YUBA CITY?...wow what a streach!
Have you heard about the new FCC proposal to allow FM translators to re-broadcast AM stations?
The restrictions proposed are:
The FM translator's contour must not exceed the AM station's 2.0 millivolt contour or 25 miles from its transmitter site (the AM site).
A few stations have received an STA for this already. It must be renewed every six months and must also comply with the propsed rules above.
As you know there are many pending FM translators applications around Sacramento. I wounder if Paula Nelson leased an FM translator for 1240Khz. if she would be a reliable client?
It would certainly help the co-channel AM interference (on 1240Khz.) at night.
Newsperson
Just signed back in. Yes I was refering to any translator owners books and not yours. I re-read my post and I see how that jumped out.
I'm not sure what KFCA is doing with their translators. They are alowed to use a morse code identifier instead of a local ID. As far as broadcasting 100 miles away, wel that is well beyond the 2.0 milliovolt contour of the AM.
.......I just re-read your last post....KFCA - YUBA CITY?...wow what a streach!
Have you heard about the new FCC proposal to allow FM translators to re-broadcast AM stations?
The restrictions proposed are:
The FM translator's contour must not exceed the AM station's 2.0 millivolt contour or 25 miles from its transmitter site (the AM site).
A few stations have received an STA for this already. It must be renewed every six months and must also comply with the propsed rules above.
As you know there are many pending FM translators applications around Sacramento. I wounder if Paula Nelson leased an FM translator for 1240Khz. if she would be a reliable client?
It would certainly help the co-channel AM interference (on 1240Khz.) at night.
Newsperson
Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer
Hi Newsperson,
That is interesting about the new translators for AM proposals. I can see in some instances, where a station like KRJY 1240 would have more listeners on the translator than on AM considering the fact that it's a music format. Also 1240's nighttime skywave interference is pretty bad since it's on a graveyard channel. I do wonder if Paula would have the mindset to think of that. Translators do come cheap for now, but they may go up in value if enough AM stations grab them.
You would think the FCC would stop stations from using translators to simply improve their sound quality. I guess if they require the FM translator to rebroadcast the AM audio, it would nip it the bud.
Hmmmm.... What are your thoughts?
newsperson said:
Hi Newsperson,
That is interesting about the new translators for AM proposals. I can see in some instances, where a station like KRJY 1240 would have more listeners on the translator than on AM considering the fact that it's a music format. Also 1240's nighttime skywave interference is pretty bad since it's on a graveyard channel. I do wonder if Paula would have the mindset to think of that. Translators do come cheap for now, but they may go up in value if enough AM stations grab them.
You would think the FCC would stop stations from using translators to simply improve their sound quality. I guess if they require the FM translator to rebroadcast the AM audio, it would nip it the bud.
Hmmmm.... What are your thoughts?
Hi Michael,
I remember talking with someone from the FCC about 15 years ago (at an NAB) about FM translators for AM stations and his thoughts were:
" AM stations on FM translators will try and turn themselves into an FM station" and he and the Commission were aganist it at the time.
Now the tide has turned and the NAB is also behind this. My thoughts that besides daytimers, the AM stations that need FM translators the most are the regional channels that must reduce power and change patterns or go directional at night.
One good example is KTHO 590 Khz. at South Lake Tahoe. Their power is 2.5 Kw day non-directional and 500 watts at night in a two-tower directional array which misses the core city.
In Sacramento there are few stations with the same problem except:
AM 1320Khz. (is it still KCTC?) by their own doing is selling the land for its nightime site near the airforce base and changing the City of License to West Sacramento. Under these new rules Entercom could use a FM translator and pocket the millions from the sale of the land.
AM 1600 Khz. KUBA in Yuba City has received an STA for an FM translator as they loose coverage from going directional at night. These are the types of stations that will benefit the most by regaining lost coverage.
The old Class lV, now Class C AM stations, 1230,1240,1340,1400,1450 like Paula Nelson's only loose coverage at night becasue of nighttime interference. Under the propsed rules they could become quasi FM stations.
Stations like KFBK, KSTE, KGO and would not benefit from an FM translator and they wouldn't want to send listeners to another band.
Other than the the stations mentioned above I can't think of any others up and down the valley that would benefit from an FM translator by regaining lost nighttime coverage.
Any other AM stations that might seek an FM translator?
Also we will see more commercial use of FM translators and less religous becasue of this rule change?
Your thoughts?
Newsperson
I remember talking with someone from the FCC about 15 years ago (at an NAB) about FM translators for AM stations and his thoughts were:
" AM stations on FM translators will try and turn themselves into an FM station" and he and the Commission were aganist it at the time.
Now the tide has turned and the NAB is also behind this. My thoughts that besides daytimers, the AM stations that need FM translators the most are the regional channels that must reduce power and change patterns or go directional at night.
One good example is KTHO 590 Khz. at South Lake Tahoe. Their power is 2.5 Kw day non-directional and 500 watts at night in a two-tower directional array which misses the core city.
In Sacramento there are few stations with the same problem except:
AM 1320Khz. (is it still KCTC?) by their own doing is selling the land for its nightime site near the airforce base and changing the City of License to West Sacramento. Under these new rules Entercom could use a FM translator and pocket the millions from the sale of the land.
AM 1600 Khz. KUBA in Yuba City has received an STA for an FM translator as they loose coverage from going directional at night. These are the types of stations that will benefit the most by regaining lost coverage.
The old Class lV, now Class C AM stations, 1230,1240,1340,1400,1450 like Paula Nelson's only loose coverage at night becasue of nighttime interference. Under the propsed rules they could become quasi FM stations.
Stations like KFBK, KSTE, KGO and would not benefit from an FM translator and they wouldn't want to send listeners to another band.
Other than the the stations mentioned above I can't think of any others up and down the valley that would benefit from an FM translator by regaining lost nighttime coverage.
Any other AM stations that might seek an FM translator?
Also we will see more commercial use of FM translators and less religous becasue of this rule change?
Your thoughts?
Newsperson
Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer
Hi Newsperson--
That's an interesting question. I believe that the viability of AM stations is decreasing at an even faster rate than in the past due to more and more interference from electronic devices. As our friend David Eduardo is quick to point out, there are few viable AM stations in most markets. He says that according to Arbitron zip code analysis, most AM listening at home and at work falls within the 10-15 mv/m contour. If that's the case, most regional and graveyard channels are rapidly becoming worthless in the larger markets.
Look at 1240....The 10 mv/m barely hits the other side of Carmichael.
That leaves KFBK, KSTE, KFIA and KHTK as the only potent Sacramento AM's
Hi Newsperson--
That's an interesting question. I believe that the viability of AM stations is decreasing at an even faster rate than in the past due to more and more interference from electronic devices. As our friend David Eduardo is quick to point out, there are few viable AM stations in most markets. He says that according to Arbitron zip code analysis, most AM listening at home and at work falls within the 10-15 mv/m contour. If that's the case, most regional and graveyard channels are rapidly becoming worthless in the larger markets.
Look at 1240....The 10 mv/m barely hits the other side of Carmichael.
That leaves KFBK, KSTE, KFIA and KHTK as the only potent Sacramento AM's
Michael,
I beleive that (in contrast to David Kaye) that there is plenty to AM at home listening down in the 5 millivolt contour. However this depends on:
1. If your in an area that does not have a lot of man made interference an AM will come in better.
2. If your in an area like San Francisco there's lot of man made interferece and many stronger stations to listen to. So in this case it's just easier to listen to a stronger station. However I beleive that many asians will listen to KVTO 1400 Khz. at home beyond its 5.0 millivolt contour.
3. In the car AM will continue to get listening beyond expectations.
What were we talking about?
Oh yes FM translators for AM stations.
Want to run a music format on an AM station?
Get an FM translator for it and that just might work.
Newsperson
I beleive that (in contrast to David Kaye) that there is plenty to AM at home listening down in the 5 millivolt contour. However this depends on:
1. If your in an area that does not have a lot of man made interference an AM will come in better.
2. If your in an area like San Francisco there's lot of man made interferece and many stronger stations to listen to. So in this case it's just easier to listen to a stronger station. However I beleive that many asians will listen to KVTO 1400 Khz. at home beyond its 5.0 millivolt contour.
3. In the car AM will continue to get listening beyond expectations.
What were we talking about?
Oh yes FM translators for AM stations.
Want to run a music format on an AM station?
Get an FM translator for it and that just might work.
Newsperson
Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer
Hi Newsperson--
Now there's a thought....
1. Get an FM Translator and hope that the FCC will let feed the signal directly.
2. Launch a music format.
3. Watch your stick value increase.
4. Hope that you won't be knocked off the air by some new full powered station or upgrade of an existing frequency.
On the note of AM listening.
You're right that in many instances listen to an AM station will happen outside the 5 millivolt contour if the format has uniqueness in the marketplace or the listener's radio isn't subject to man made interference.
Of course I myself listen to AM stations beyond even the .5 millivolt contour because I'm a big fat geek
ahem!
newsperson said:
Hi Newsperson--
Now there's a thought....
1. Get an FM Translator and hope that the FCC will let feed the signal directly.
2. Launch a music format.
3. Watch your stick value increase.
4. Hope that you won't be knocked off the air by some new full powered station or upgrade of an existing frequency.
On the note of AM listening.
You're right that in many instances listen to an AM station will happen outside the 5 millivolt contour if the format has uniqueness in the marketplace or the listener's radio isn't subject to man made interference.
Of course I myself listen to AM stations beyond even the .5 millivolt contour because I'm a big fat geek
ahem!
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