old country geezers out on camel county 107.9 fm hd2

[36james]

Yep, once again, consultants give these crooners the boot, I liked listening to clint black, Haggerd, Lonestar, and old Reba tunes , jeez consultants get a clue, your not a listener, I am. Now its all current and hot country tracks. This is sad day for people who like classic country and I enjoyed the mix of music they presented.

 

[Frequency Breakdown]

They might really be gearing up for a flip if they've migrated all the tunes they'd be playing anyway to their sub channel… But I still highly doubt that FM sports is in 107.9's future.

 

[radiowizard101]

It sounds like that programming adjustment is designed to sell a lot of HD radios. NOT!!!!!!!!! The radio biz just keeps on getting dumber everyday.

 

[davideduardo]

Yep, once again, consultants give these crooners the boot, I liked listening to clint black, Haggerd, Lonestar, and old Reba tunes , jeez consultants get a clue, your not a listener, I am. Now its all current and hot country tracks. This is sad day for people who like classic country and I enjoyed the mix of music they presented.

Contrary to your thinking, consultants generally are authorities in interpreting and implementing research, which is based on talking with listeners in the age and lifestyle group a station wants to attract. In the case of CBS, the programming decisions are made internally by a pretty outstanding team of programmers.

Speaking of which... if the "listeners" are predominantly over 55 (and, increasingly, over 50) stations do not want to attract them.

Classic country listeners tend to be in the group stations can't afford to go after.

 

[beauduran]

Contrary to your thinking, consultants generally are authorities in interpreting and implementing research, which is based on talking with listeners in the age and lifestyle group a station wants to attract. In the case of CBS, the programming decisions are made internally by a pretty outstanding team of programmers.

Speaking of which... if the "listeners" are predominantly over 55 (and, increasingly, over 50) stations do not want to attract them.

Classic country listeners tend to be in the group stations can't afford to go after.

Very true on the main signal. But this is an HD-2 we're talking about here. Who is programming subchannels to be mass appeal? Only a tiny number of people in any given metro area have the ability to even hear it (I'm one of them). Nobody is selling ad time on HD-2 signals for any meaningful income. I can't see any reason to more or less mirror the KMLE format on the HD-2 unless that KMLE format is going to change in the near future. Moreover, I can't imagine any of the decision makers on a corporate level at CBS care much about what a Phoenix station is doing with their HD-2...

 

[Ford]

Very true on the main signal. But this is an HD-2 we're talking about here.

All the more reason to not appeal to the geezers, in my opinion.

I don't have the research, but I'm willing to guess that the handful of people who have HD radios aren't in the 55+ demo.

The last time I checked out the KMLE HD2 channel, it was "Tim & Willy's Classic Country" or something like that. As such, I expect the format change is nothing more than a reflection of the recent change to the main signal.

 

[davideduardo]

rs tend to be in the group stations can't afford to go after.

Very true on the main signal. But this is an HD-2 we're talking about here. Who is programming subchannels to be mass appeal?

That is exactly the attitude that folks had from 1946 to 1967 in regards to FM. "Oh, it's FM and we don't want it to affect the ratings of the money making AM sister station. So put something on it that will not compete with the AM."

Once FM became competitive, after the FCC simulcast edict, it became profitable and got ratings.

 

[landtuna]

That is exactly the attitude that folks had from 1946 to 1967 in regards to FM. "Oh, it's FM and we don't want it to affect the ratings of the money making AM sister station. So put something on it that will not compete with the AM."

Once FM became competitive, after the FCC simulcast edict, it became profitable and got ratings.

So are you saying that HD radio will only be successful if Congress mandates HD radios?

Personally, I don't know if enough radios are being purchased these days that a mandate would work. Radio just isn't as big a part of broadcast entertainment as it once was. For $60 I bought a used multimedia PC and set it up as a feed for Internet streaming/downloads to my audio and video systems. If OTA radio disappeared tomorrow I would not miss it a bit.

 

[davideduardo]

So are you saying that HD radio will only be successful if Congress mandates HD radios?

No, I am saying that an attitude of putting no-ratings-potential formats that won't ding the main channel on HD channels is just like the attitude of putting no-ratings-potential formats on FM for its first two decades or so.

Radio just isn't as big a part of broadcast entertainment as it once was.

Yet, despite all the new media competition, hundreds of channels of cable, DVRs, video games and iPods, about the same percentage of Americans use radio weekly as they did when the first true weekly cume figures became available... in 1965. Yes, they use fewer hours per week, but radio is part of the entertainment mix for nearly 95% of the population, indicating that radio has a real opportunity still to transition successfully to new methods of distribution.

 

[radiowizard101]

There you go again with that age discrimination argument again. It's now getting redundant. People over the age of 55 LISTEN TO THE RADIO!!! People over 55 BUY STUFF!!! Now it's tome to explain that to the agencies and group owners, who by the way, are mostly likely OVER THE AGE OF 55.

Sorry, but your Rhetoric about this subject has been going on for OVER TEN YEARS. Maybe its time for you (MR. BIGTIME RADIOMAN) to change your thought patterns regarding demograhics.

Your observations are nothing more than a serious case of age discrimination.

 

[Groove1670]

Yep, once again, consultants give these crooners the boot,

Most classic country stations have done poorly in ratings and revenue in large markets. If someone tried late 80's & 90's country, that would be interesting. For some reason, 60's and 70's make it into the mix. That would be like putting Lenny Welch - Since I fell for you, in the a 70's 80's classic hits station.

Speaking of which... if the "listeners" are predominantly over 55 (and, increasingly, over 50) stations do not want to attract them.

No one seems to have the answer on what to do with half of the population turning 55 soon. How do we reach them. Yes, younger Demos have money, but with the economy, and job loss, that revenue stream is fading as indicated in the latest retail sales figures. The old crooners are selling more concert tix, and in some cases seller more music on the Soundscan charts.

 

[Groove1670]

That is exactly the attitude that folks had from 1946 to 1967 in regards to FM.

FM would finally be discovered when programmers moved popular formats over to the band (it would happen in the early 70's) With cash giveaways and extensive promotion (Y100 Miami) it worked, a good portion of radios also had FM on them.

Now you need to look for a HD/FM and dare I say AM tuner. Now add XM, Pandora, Iheart, and whatever else sticks. I will be long gone before HD sees the light of day.

By the way, as a small market operator, am I willing to spend $50,000 for equipment, HD license fees, additional ASCAP/BMI fees (I don't know how that works with HD) No.

At least with FM you could sell "Beautiful music to some clients. I work with one operator that was very successful with that format.

If you have a Large centralized market. HD is good for you. IE: Translator.

How is the Jazz working out on HD2. Everyone protested when it left the main channel, any ratings, anyone listening, just curious. BTW: I am a smooth Jazz fan, but I won't buy a HD radio if it was in my market to listen.

FM chips in phones anyone. ;D

 

[Shoot From Hip]

radiowizard101: "There you go again with that age discrimination argument again. It's now getting redundant. People over the age of 55 LISTEN TO THE RADIO!!! People over 55 BUY STUFF!!! Now it's tome to explain that to the agencies and group owners, who by the way, are mostly likely OVER THE AGE OF 55.

Sorry, but your Rhetoric about this subject has been going on for OVER TEN YEARS. Maybe its time for you (MR. BIGTIME RADIOMAN) to change your thought patterns regarding demograhics.

Your observations are nothing more than a serious case of age discrimination."

Don't blame the messenger. Right or wrong isn't the issue. He's just reflecting who the advertisers are spending money to reach. Commercial radio is a business. Nothing more and nothing less. No one disputes that people 55+ spend money. But if an advertiser is looking for Women 25-54 or Adults 18-49, no amount of 55+ listeners is going to get you on the buy.

 

[DrAkbar]

FM chips in phones anyone. ;D

Long overdue!

Speaking of geezer formats on HD2...KDKB is running worn out oldies from Lumberyard 14~Forty until they can think of something better (and just as cheap).

 

[landtuna]

No, I am saying that an attitude of putting no-ratings-potential formats that won't ding the main channel on HD channels is just like the attitude of putting no-ratings-potential formats on FM for its first two decades or so.

My first experience with FM was in the Bay Area in the mid-60's. KGO-FM put up jockless music on 103.7 and virtually everyone I knew in the North Bay became fans. Partly due to KEWB flipping and partly due to KYA not having a great signal at night up there. No commercials, just station ID and music. It was great.

KGO apparently made no effort to sell the FM but it could have been a gold mine for those of us in our 20's and it did eventually become that after management paid attention to who was listening.

My point is, there was a potential but the station didn't recognize it for some time. Just like now with KOOL-FM and their HD2. If I have access to the HD2 channel (through an HD radio or the streaming Internet) do you think I will listen to their main signal replete with lengthy commercials and a migrating playlist or do I listen to their HD2 stream playing mostly 70's with no commercials?

You would think, if nothing else, sales could offer freebies on the HD2 side as an added enticement to buy the main signal. If I owned a piece of the action I would definitely be asking why they weren't taking advantage of every possible revenue opportunity.

Yet, despite all the new media competition, hundreds of channels of cable, DVRs, video games and iPods, about the same percentage of Americans use radio weekly as they did when the first true weekly cume figures became available... in 1965. Yes, they use fewer hours per week, but radio is part of the entertainment mix for nearly 95% of the population, indicating that radio has a real opportunity still to transition successfully to new methods of distribution.

You're the expert here but my observation is that radio would virtually disappear overnight if it weren't for the drive time shows.

 

[landtuna]

Speaking of geezer formats on HD2...KDKB is running worn out oldies from Lumberyard 14~Forty until they can think of something better (and just as cheap).

"Worn out Oldies?" I think not. Why use that term with Oldies when no other genre gets that same treatment? Is it because Oldies have been on the radio since before they were Oldies? So has Classical. So has Country. So has Standards. None of them are "worn out".

Do I detect a hint of envy here or is it because Oldies don't have a big a return on investment for the labels?

I live in a neighborhood where most are grandparents and empty nesters. We have a block party every year. Want to guess what music gets played at the party? Aw.....you peeked.

Just for fun I asked people last year if they listened to music at home or in their vehicles and the overwhelming answer was vehicles only. Then I asked which stations they listened to (again, music only). Only 2 out of 20 (or so) listened to a terrestrial radio station. The rest had either satellite, CD or iPOD/MP3 player. Of the station listeners one was Country and one was Oldies. The main reason the majority didn't listen real-time? Commercial blocks of excessive length.

Every single one of these people (excepting only my wife) is over the age of 55. Most are still working and most are professionals with significant assets and/or income.

A few of the offspring are doing well financially but none have the purchasing power of their parents. Most are just getting by and most have accepted help from their folks at some point in time. Remember, this is a well-to-do neighborhood. The great majority of 18-35's are not doing this good. To sell anything you have to target potential customers with money. It does no good to pitch to a 25-year old who has significant college debt, no savings and a relatively low beginning wage.

I'm not blaming the stations here but the advertisers sure could use some education. And the rest of us could stop using the same old tired "worn out" mantra.

 

[TheBigA]

I'm not blaming the stations here but the advertisers sure could use some education. And the rest of us could stop using the same old tired "worn out" mantra.

Let me ask a simple question: If your friends don't listen to OTA specifically because of the commercials, why should an advertiser have any reason to think that his advertising will have any impact on your friends? You seem to be saying that advertising is a turn off, and thus is money wasted.

 

[radioguy39nj]

No matter what the age of the listener is, it boils to do one thing. It's the programming! The on-air product! Without a good on-air product, you can't sell to any age bracket regardless of income.

To any advertiser, I've aged out. I listen mostly to Sirius/XM in my car. My only use for terrrestrial radio, AM or FM, is for local sports, news and talk. Period!

 

[TheBigA]

My only use for terrrestrial radio, AM or FM, is for local sports, news and talk. Period!

I think that's more a function of age than programming. My parents stopped listening to music on the radio when they got into their late 50s. It wasn't that their favorite music wasn't available. It was. They just weren't interested any more.

 

[radioguy39nj]

My only use for terrrestrial radio, AM or FM, is for local sports, news and talk. Period!

I think that's more a function of age than programming. My parents stopped listening to music on the radio when they got into their late 50s. It wasn't that their favorite music wasn't available. It was. They just weren't interested any more.

In 1985 in NY, you had a different music station serving three separate generations of radio listeners. The 12-24s had CHR Z100. Their parents, the baby boomers then in their 30s and early 40s, had WCBS-FM as a real oldies station. Our parents had WNEW-AM still playing standards and delivering affluent 45-54 demos.

The choices were there in 1985. Not so in 2012.