Older Audiences & Advertiser Appeal (For All Markets)

[kevtronics]

I looked at What Year Did the First VCR Come Out? and saw that I was not really the earliest of adopters, although there was not much to do with one back then.

That's what happens when you use a bot to write your web articles: "VCR means videocassette recorder, and the first one of those was released for commercial use in 1956." Nope... that was the first videotape, but the first successful videocassette format was Sony's U-Matic, introduced in 1971.

And PSA: Never send your tapes or films to Southtree / LegacyBox / Kodak Digitizing. They do a terrible job:

 

[michael hagerty]

VTR= Videotape recorder

VCR+ Videocassette recorder

 

[tall_guy1]

I wonder if 101 the Fox and 94.9 KCMO in Kansas City (top 2 stations 6+) are profitable since I think they skew older?

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

As a general trend, classic hits and classic rock do well in target demos. There's older, and then there's older. Executed well, classic hits & rock can do nicely. There's a reason they remain somewhere in the upper echelon of stations in many markets, and it's not that all of their listeners are well into the AARP demo.

 

[davideduardo]

I wonder if 101 the Fox and 94.9 KCMO in Kansas City (top 2 stations 6+) are profitable since I think they skew older?

Typically the two are #1 and #2 in 25-54. Nearly all ratings-based buys are based on that broad demo or some subset of it. The two stations are both in the top 4 to 6 in the market in revenue, too.

When "older" is referenced in regards to being out of the ages advertisers generally seek, we are talking 55 and older... and for local sales, perhaps 65 and older.

 

[TomásEstefan]

I read the website. This radio station WLML plays standards - what they call "American Songbook". That's like a big station in L.A. where I grew up --- KMPC 710. Their format was MOR - their logo was "station of the stars" and they played all the artists that WLML lists.

Sometimes, they played slow pop tunes that were charting like Anne Murray "Snowbird" or "May I Have This Dance for the Rest of My Life" ( just saying). Sometimes they played slow country/ pop like "By the Time I Get to Phoenix", etc. They could be kind of eclectic. But all those artists that WLML lists on their "about us" page -- they played them. Well, except for Diana Krall, who was just starting her career.
At any rate, I considered that to be music for 55+ listeners. But, my point is that they were huge with that market - even back then.

(Except that WLML lists Rod Stewart. Why? I always considered Rod Stewart to be a rocker. But maybe they see him as singing standards, the same way that Lady Gaga sings standards with Tony Bennett).

This leads into an off-topic discussion of: What constitutes a MOR format these days, and is it profitable? Also: As the American population ages, how much purchasing power does the huge swath of baby boomers still have? My guess is -- they have a lot of purchasing power, especially in states that attract retirees, like Florida and Arizona. As boomers retire, they move west and south, towards warmer weather and the sun belt. ( I worked for the Census, and the Census Bureau showed the north central "rust belt" states as losing their older population).

Candid disclosure: I'm a senior. I think a lot of people here are seniors. As a matter of fact, I think our moderators are seniors. Can you imagine our moderators, who are experts in the business of radio, calling up this guy Randy in Tampa, and he hangs up on them, because they might be seen as detrimental to advertisers? That is so .....awful. It's awful. This behavior is what contributes to the coarsening of our society, to the cynicism, polarization, and divisiveness in our culture. There's just no need for that at all.

Standards ( American Songbook) are not my music. My music is the Beatles era with whom I came of age. But if WLML can be successful, I say more power to them. Good for them for programming to seniors. And on behalf of our older population, I'll text them ( or call them) and request Sinatra songs. Also, Randy's behavior is shameful, and if the PD told him to be disrespectful and exclusionary of seniors, then the PD's behavior is shameful. One of these days, Randy's going to be older also. Karma is a bear. ☹️ [/rant] -- Daryl

I would have fired his a--!

 

[davideduardo]

I would have fired his a--!

The thing is that the guidance to drive away the "blue haired old ladies" came from the parent company's head of programming. In other words, it was company policy then to try to drive off the seniors who wanted to talk about Medicare and ailments and pills and the kids on their lawn.

Any of us who has been program director of a talk station makes a concerted effort not to let too many of them on the air. The easy way is to screen the call and then just leave the caller on hold.

The "Randy" in this case was Randy Michaels, who became the CEO for Clear Channel when Clear bought Jacor, where he had also been CEO.

 

[TomásEstefan]

The thing is that the guidance to drive away the "blue haired old ladies" came from the parent company's head of programming. In other words, it was company policy then to try to drive off the seniors who wanted to talk about Medicare and ailments and pills and the kids on their lawn.

Any of us who has been program director of a talk station makes a concerted effort not to let too many of them on the air. The easy way is to screen the call and then just leave the caller on hold.

The "Randy" in this case was Randy Michaels, who became the CEO for Clear Channel when Clear bought Jacor, where he had also been CEO.

My mistake, I thought she called into live request or contest line...

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

I never called into a talk show.

If a listener calls into a talk show, how is s/he screened? Does the screener ask only about the topic the caller wants to discuss? I can understand if a talk show wants to steer away from topics like programs for seniors. But, what if the listener wants to discuss a topic that is relevant to everyone? Is the listener still put on hold, due to his / her age, or supposed race, or religion, or heritage?

How does the screener know the age of the listener? Voices can be deceiving. There can be 40 year olds with very scratchy voices who sound old, and there can also be seniors with smooth voices that sound much younger.

Giants baseball announcers Jon Miller, Dwayne Kuiper and Mike Krukow sound much younger than they are. But fellow announcer Dave Fleming sounds much older, party because he is distinguished and very knowledgeable. He's still in his thirties, but sound like a senior statesman of the game.
Dodgers announcers Vin Scully and Jaime Jarrin never sounded like their age.
I realize that these are professional broadcasters with voice training, but there are also listeners that sound older and younger. So it's difficult for a screener to tell who should be allowed on the air, judging only by voice quality.

 

[davideduardo]

I've never called into a talk show. Is it the policy of most talk shows to screen the calls by asking the caller's age and other demographic information? If they are allowed to eliminate callers by age, then are they also allowed to eliminate callers by race, religion, or national origin? I can see that there might be some liability issues here.

Most shows have a screener. They may not ask age, but they can take a guess. They ask what is being called about, and dismiss them if the call does not fit the host's subjects for that day. They likely would not ask about race or ethnicity as that is too sensitive.

A good screener will label each caller as to whether they are going to be interesting.

If a listener calls into a talk show, how is s/he screened? Does the screener ask only about the topic the caller wants to discuss? I can understand if a talk show wants to steer away from topics like programs for seniors. But, what if the listener wants to discuss a topic that is relevant to everyone? Is the listener still put on hold, due to his / her age, or supposed race, or religion, or heritage?

Generally, the screener will prioritize by the "personality" of the caller. Notes like "wants a fight with you" or "has example of malpractice" or the like. In other words, which calls will be entertaining.

 

[anotherguyTN]

Could someone possibly get their way on to a talk show and and hit the host with some other question that's from the opposite direction of what they were expecting? Also do the screeners have caller ID where is that they could know when a continual problem caller is calling in?

 

[michael hagerty]

Could someone possibly get their way on to a talk show and and hit the host with some other question that's from the opposite direction of what they were expecting? Also do the screeners have caller ID where is that they could know when a continual problem caller is calling in?

That's how every "Baba Booey" Howard Stern fan crashed a talk show in the 90s and beyond. Fake the screener into thinking you're a good caller, then run in the other direction once your call goes on.

If I recall correctly (it's been three and a half years) our call screener software at KFBK included caller ID. Hardcore problem callers (or perpetually boring ones, I suppose) could be flagged that way, though I don't know if our talk screeners ever did (on the news side, we rarely used call-ins live on air, unless there was breaking news with listeners who could give perspective (the 2017 Oroville Dam crisis comes to mind).

As to identifying the age of the caller, when I was doing talk at KTAR in Phoenix (2000-2004), the screener I worked with had a great device for callers he wasn't already familiar with: "How'd you hear about the station?" If they told him they'd been listening since the 50s or 60s (and we had some at that time who went back to the 20s), he could do the math.

We weren't obsessive about caller age (KFYI's tended to be much older), but the PD made it clear she didn't want to hear multiple calls in a row from geriatrics, either.

Every screener has his or her own methods. Kendall Tobe, who screens as well as produces Pat Walsh's nightly talk show on KFBK, is so lovely with the callers that she has her own fan club.

 

[Miss Tuned]

"Will you people stop putting on fake voices!!"

 

[radiofan2023]

The thing is that the guidance to drive away the "blue haired old ladies" came from the parent company's head of programming. In other words, it was company policy then to try to drive off the seniors who wanted to talk about Medicare and ailments and pills and the kids on their lawn.

Any of us who has been program director of a talk station makes a concerted effort not to let too many of them on the air. The easy way is to screen the call and then just leave the caller on hold.

The "Randy" in this case was Randy Michaels, who became the CEO for Clear Channel when Clear bought Jacor, where he had also been CEO.

I always enjoy when a senior listener calls in to Handel on the Law for help with making a will or trust and Bill asks them how old they are, they’ll say ”I’m 65”, and he’ll blindside them with, “You sound like you’re about 95 so you’d better hurry!”

 

[Bongwater]

I remember that. I remember station sued to make a point of saying they were playing CDs. I think the first CD I ever heard was one in a record store. "Journey to a Rainbow" by Chuck Mangione.

 

[Kelly A]

Yep, originally there was one CD player in the studio. A Nakamichi we purchased from Magnolia HiFi. The first two CD's in the collection?
Duran Duran Rio and Van Halen 1984.

 

[davideduardo]

Yep, originally there was one CD player in the studio. A Nakamichi we purchased from Magnolia HiFi. The first two CD's in the collection?
Duran Duran Rio and Van Halen 1984.

And they pay us to remember stuff like that!

 

[Kelly A]

And they pay us to remember stuff like that!

Seems like the stuff I'm supposed to remember is crowded out by things like what brand of CD player and original CD's in the 80's.

 

[Oldie919]

The first CD played on a station in Concord, NH (then-WKXL-FM 102.3) was "Midnight Madness" by Night Ranger...
The cut? "Sister Christian".....Yes, I STILL have this CD --- Never listen to it, but wouldn't part with it!!
We used MY own Sears-by-Sanyo CD player with a home-made audio interface to boost the output...
This player was a one-disc unit......and could only be programmed for up to 10 tracks!!!
If your CD had, say, 15 tracks, it would "count" tracks to 10, then just "sit" on "10" for the remaining tracks!!!
Ain't technology GRAND????!!

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

Re the original subject title:
Some folks here in the Northeast US will remember stations such as WNAR 1110 Norristown PA .... WNLK 1350 Norwalk CT ..... WRIV Riverhead Long Island ..... WHTG 1410 Eatontown (NJ shore) .... WBRE 1340 Wilkes-Barre .....
..... and even some of the 'newer' ones -- the shoehorn AMers like WKER Pompton Lakes NJ, WGCH 1490 Greenwich CT, WPRJ 1310 Parsippany NJ, WNRK 1260 in Delaware.
They each had, and served, their local COL niche -- their mom & pop clientele, their adults. There was even some token national ad prestige and imagery from spots on respected network newscasts.
Point is, LPFM stations originally were instituted to be, essentially, the same service, for the same older audiences of the time.
The suspicion here is that Big Radio all of a sudden didn't enjoy one bit the possibility of potential nickels and dimes headed elsewhere from the pockets of a demo they basically didn't want, anyway. Imagine you acquired some used second-hand flea market, decided it was ballast on your overall portfolio, and had it up for sale -- but wait! -- some think it possibly houses some legitimate antiques that were worth more than you thought.
That can't be the best analogy, of course. But with all the resistance to those original LPFM filings, most glaringly from the NAB (the aging, gingivitis pit bull of big radio) and from NPR ('Hey! Listener support is OUR monopoly territory!') the horror of competition, however minor the $ portended to be, was obvious. Right off the vat, newer regulations, restrictions and purely craven obstacles got mandated for such new stations to exist.
In one fashion or another, the mom & pop-type of community service radio that once existed for decades in its own local, workmanlike way was forbidden from returning or even getting a foothold. The original LPFM vision -- largely suggesting and even anticipating the response, involvement and appeal from an older audience -- got buried by interests who didn't want such demos in the first place.
How long would a normally licensed, commercialized, sensibly regulated, audio version of a corner deli have existed in communities outside the shadows of the skyscraper boardrooms? We'll never know. The two-tiered system of standards for club membership credentials that got unmasked and revealed were at the least a sign ; even perhaps a self-prophecising proof that the 'undesirable' older demos don't count because, well, they don't exist.