One year since the demise of news-talk WROW...

[danikayser84]

Well, come February 8, it'll be the 1st anniversary of the demise of WROW's news-talk format and the beginning of the eventual move of Magic to 590 AM. The Bridge has been faltering from day one, pretty much, and Cat Country really needs to become a simulcast of Froggy, as 104.9 is pretty much worthless with its paltry signal (it's so weak, K104 gets in the way just 15 miles or so south)... it'd be better off simulcasting Froggy rather than having it be a single-frequency country station (Froggy's signal is pretty good all the way down to past Albany, and 104.9 could fill in around Troy/Albany/Rensselaer). They tried selling it after their urban AC format failed (and got replaced by Froggy), then after 105.7's sale to Pamal was rejected, they kept WZMR instead and eventually put the Edge on after WQBK dumped it.

A lot of people were surprised when they heard soft oldies on 590 instead of their usual talk radio programs on February 8, 2010, but they all moved to WGDJ and WGY (Vandenburgh starting his own upstart on 1300 basically killed WROW, I believe). Fact is, Magic is actually doing better than the news-talker was by its final ratings books under the news/talk format, but not doing as well as it was on FM. Wonder if we could potentially see a return of "Froggy 104.9/107.1" in the future... maybe bring Magic back to 100.9 and put urban AC or classic country on 590 (think they might pitch in to buy AM 1460 if Radio Disney puts it up for sale (it's actually possible, as the cap in the Albany market is 7 stations, not 6 )? if so, put Urban AC on one and Classic Country on the other ) Or they can continue Magic on 590 (or move to 1460, again if Pamal does buy that station) and also simulcast on 100.9... saving the other AM for Urban AC or Classic Country

It's hard to believe that it's been almost a year since WROW abruptly left the air and became the new home of Magic

 

[Seltzer]

I would love to see Magic back on 100.9. But because of WYJB, that will probably not happen.

 

[danikayser84]

Seltzer: WYJB could always lean more Hot AC (think Fresh FM in NYC) if they ever brought Magic back as a simulcast on FM (either on 100.9 or 104.9, but I prefer 100.9 for Magic)

As for 104.9 and 100.9...

WZMR 104.9:
- Weak signal, co- and adjacent-channels in pretty much every direction (WSPK-104.7 to the south, WAMQ-105.1 to the east, and a bible thumper to the north on 104.9, and WVTL's AM-to-FM translator on 104.7 northwest)
- Formats have been doomed to fail on this (see: modern rock, smooth jazz, urban AC) as if the frequency is "cursed" due to its poor signal
- Cannot increase power at all (102.3 could in theory become a B1, but it'd have to be highly directional to the northeast and southwest to protect WJIV and WEQX... no such luck with WZMR)
- Better off simulcasting Froggy, if anything... 107.1 and 104.9 is pretty decent coverage (107.1 is the stronger of the two and comes in well as far south as past Albany, but 104.9 can help as well... they just need to actively promote both frequencies, not just 107.1 )

WKLI 100.9:
- Strongest class A signal in the Albany market, I believe
- Actually has had top-5 formats, such as Magic and K-lite, for years (top 40 K100 and mod AC Point both failed... but soft AC K-lite was successful until B95 came along)
- Should perhaps bring back Magic as a simulcast of 590 if anything... Bridge has been worthless since day one
- Don't put country on this signal... WKLI and WFFG's coverage areas overlap too much

If Pamal does eventually end up buying AM 1460 when the time comes, I'd definitely put urban AC or classic country on it... but if not, simulcast Magic on 590 and 100.9 for a time then put urban AC or classic country on 590 (not much works on AM anymore... those are the two that come to mind for me )

 

[ThatGuyOnTheRadio]

I don't see Pamal buying any more radio stations...

 

[fybush]

- Cannot increase power at all (102.3 could in theory become a B1, but it'd have to be highly directional to the northeast and southwest to protect WJIV and WEQX... no such luck with WZMR)

No, 102.3 can't become a B1. It's already spaced to within half a kilometer of the minimum spacing to WJIV and WEQX as an A, and even at its current site it's too close to WAQY to upgrade to B1.

(The exact numbers? Minimum A-to-B second-adjacent spacing is 69 km, and it's 68.72 km to WEQX, 68.66 km to WJIV, but both round up to 69. B1-to-B requires 71 km spacing. For first-adjacent scenarios like 102.3/102.1, you need 113 km for A-to-B, 145 km for B1-to-B, and it's 129 km from WKKF to WAQY, 130 km from WKKF to WUMX.)

You can only use a directional antenna to make short-spacing possible if you can show that there exists a theoretical allocations location that meets the full spacing requirements, and no such spot exists for 102.3. Move southeast, away from WJIV and WEQX and WUMX, and you're too close to WAQY - and too far from Ballston Spa as well.

 

[danikayser84]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up... wasn't too sure about whether it was possible or not... forgot to consider stations further out (Springfield, etc.)

It's like how you can't move in, say, WCQL because you'd be short spaced with WBEC in Pittsfield, and also WKBE won't fit either (shame ) because you'd be too close to both WUPE North Adams and WDST Woodstock...

 

[danikayser84]

also WKBE won't fit either (shame ) because you'd be too close to both WUPE North Adams and WDST Woodstock...

Forgot to mention that there's also WDHI in Delhi that's on 100.3, and even WHTZ in NYC might be too close as well

 

[Time Traveler]

also WKBE won't fit either (shame ) because you'd be too close to both WUPE North Adams and WDST Woodstock...

Forgot to mention that there's also WDHI in Delhi that's on 100.3, and even WHTZ in NYC might be too close as well

WDHI would definitely be a co-channel problem for moving WKBE in to town...unless maybe they dropped it down to a Class A status...and I doubt that it would work even than...and that doesn't even take WUPE and WDST in to consideration. WHTZ wouldn't be an issue though. Albany and NYC share quite a few Class B FM frequencies....

 

[THE_KNICKMAN]

First of all, I think any upgrades or moves are either impractacle and/or impossible. I agree that Pamal is probably not going to buy any stations, more likely, they would sell some. I like the idea of going back to a simulcast of froggy on 104.9. I never heard any feedback on how well it did when they simulcated before, at the time Pamal was not looking to make it long term. But 104.9 would fill in in many of the spotty areas with froggy's programming. Yes, take magic back to 100.9, it might enjoy 5+ ratings again. As I mentioned once before, put the satellite delivered classic country on 590. Have a morning drive personality that is local perhaps simulcasted with 1410 in S. Glens Falls which already has that format.

 

[danikayser84]

also WKBE won't fit either (shame ) because you'd be too close to both WUPE North Adams and WDST Woodstock...

Forgot to mention that there's also WDHI in Delhi that's on 100.3, and even WHTZ in NYC might be too close as well

WDHI would definitely be a co-channel problem for moving WKBE in to town...unless maybe they dropped it down to a Class A status...and I doubt that it would work even than...and that doesn't even take WUPE and WDST in to consideration. WHTZ wouldn't be an issue though. Albany and NYC share quite a few Class B FM frequencies....

Aren't the class Bs shared by Albany and NYC (namely WFLY/WXRK, WYJB/WPLJ, and WRVE/WBAI) grandfathered in? It's a very similar situation with WBEB/WCBS and WHTZ/WPHI and New York/Philly... such allocations wouldn't be approved today Then again, the distance from NYC to Albany is larger than the distance from NYC to Philly

If anyone buys 1460 AM, I'm kinda hoping for Anastos to buy it and put True Oldies on it instead of the graveyarder 1240 Kinda doubt Pamal or Townsquare would buy it, and CC is full up...

 

[danikayser84]

As for classic country, if it failed on three different signals (AM 1240, 96.3 FM and 93.7 FM), what makes you think it'll work on 590? Of course, it has the bigger signal, but maybe Albany's just not the market for classic country... Glens Falls, otoh, I can see classic country working in

I'd definitely give Urban AC a second chance in Albany... it'd fill a decent niche (maybe have smooth jazz on weekends, too?) The main reason urban AC failed on 104.9 was not because of the format, but because of its weak signal (see: modern rock (twice, 1999 and 2010), smooth jazz)

There's four formats that the Albany market is missing that might work in this market but will likely not happen:
- Modern Rock: Barring rimshot WEQX, there's no modern rock station in Albany anymore after both 104.9 and 103.1 flipped last year... Q103 comes close but is actually Active Rock
- Urban AC: Ever since Love FM became a simulcast of Froggy, there's been no Urban AC in Albany, but I think it'd work if the signal were strong enough and if it were programmed well enough (I still miss WRKS and WBLS a bit... could get both in Newburgh but WBLS would usually have interference from WRWD )
- Classic Country: if it failed three different times, would the fourth be the charm on AM 590? Maybe, maybe not...
- Liberal Talk: Even though most advertisers are conservative, the Albany market is still liberal enough to support a liberal talk station

We also already have two oldies stations (98.3 and 96.7), so if Magic did move back to FM, would it become just a gold-leaning Soft AC?

 

[THE_KNICKMAN]

I am looking at satellite delivered classic country as an inexpensive means of programming for 590. It would not draw great ratings. But if you keep your overhead low it could at least make a little money while the other stations in the cluster make better money. If you simulcasted 590 with 100.9, 100.9 will probably go up in the ratings while 590 might not even show up. It is unfortunate that AM in general is doing so poorly.

 

[danikayser84]

I am looking at satellite delivered classic country as an inexpensive means of programming for 590. It would not draw great ratings. But if you keep your overhead low it could at least make a little money while the other stations in the cluster make better money. If you simulcasted 590 with 100.9, 100.9 will probably go up in the ratings while 590 might not even show up. It is unfortunate that AM in general is doing so poorly.

If 590 and 100.9 were 100% simulcast, they'd be treated as one station by Arbitron, actually

(The reason WGY-AM and WGY-FM are separate in the recent ratings book is because the change happened during the book... so I'm assuming they'll be treated as one in the Winter 2010 book )

 

[THE_KNICKMAN]

I can see the advantage in the news/talk WGY situation where a same city simulcast might be beneficial. I don't however see a much of an advantage with a music format being on 1 AM and 1 FM in the same city where the core audience is going to be the same for both. The idea of a simulcast to me is for a format like magic is where there is minimum overlap and it expands the format to a larger area.

 

[OhhMeeOhh]

What we are all assuming is that ABC will admit failure (collasal failure at that) of WKLI as the Bridge and WZMR as Cat.

As I recall, weren't these sweeping changes the battle cry of the new GM that ABC brought in? Is he still there? If so, what makes you think that these changes will happen?

 

[danikayser84]

The Bridge is still tanking in the ratings (1.3 as of the last book), and it's been almost a year now and it doesn't show any promise... :

 

[THE_KNICKMAN]

I think that the GM at ABC that brought these changes a year ago (His name escapes me) probably won't be there too much longer if he is in fact still there now. As was noted, his changes are a failure and i might add with a capital "F". Some have come out and said give it a chance, it takes a while, well after a year, I think it has had all of the chance it should need, its a failure.

 

[danikayser84]

Like I said, I think Magic should move back to 100.9 after a simulcast on 590 for a few months... then put satellite-fed urban AC or classic country on 590 (I don't care which one, I just prefer urban AC myself ) and simulcast Froggy on 104.9 (promoting both frequencies on-air, not just 107.1)... and for good measure, start leaning B95 towards Hot AC to separate B from Magic but not so much as to eat away at FLY's ratings (think like Fresh in NYC)

 

[THE_KNICKMAN]

I don't have much in the way of experience or knowledge of Urban formats. Right now, WAJZ 96.3, another ABC station is listed as "Urban Contemporary". How much of a difference is there between "Urban Contemporary" and "Urban Adult Contemporary"? Is there enough difference that the same company could offer both and not just have one just take ratings from the other, if in this case UAC was put on 590?

 

[danikayser84]

I don't have much in the way of experience or knowledge of Urban formats. Right now, WAJZ 96.3, another ABC station is listed as "Urban Contemporary". How much of a difference is there between "Urban Contemporary" and "Urban Adult Contemporary"? Is there enough difference that the same company could offer both and not just have one just take ratings from the other, if in this case UAC was put on 590?

WAJZ is actually Rhythmic CHR, according to Mediabase and Nielsen BDS

Big difference right there... Rhythmic CHR is really the more upbeat R&B/hip-hop/dance music... urban AC would play mostly R&B (some of which Jamz might play) and classic soul music, but no hip-hop or dance music.