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Over-the-air digital signals subject to Internet radio royalties !

7

700WLW

Guest
"More on the Copyright Royalty Board Decision on Internet Radio Music Royalties"

Written By:David Oxenford
On March 5, 2007 10:19 PM

"In response to David S above - a digital signal of an over-the-air station is in fact subject to these royalties. When the royalties were first adopted, the broadcasters claimed that their signals, when just retransmitted on the Internet, were exempt, but the Copyright Office and the Courts rejected that argument."

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/arc...nternet-radio-music-royalties.html#discussion
 
700WLW said:
"More on the Copyright Royalty Board Decision on Internet Radio Music Royalties"

Written By:David Oxenford
On March 5, 2007 10:19 PM

"In response to David S above - a digital signal of an over-the-air station is in fact subject to these royalties. When the royalties were first adopted, the broadcasters claimed that their signals, when just retransmitted on the Internet, were exempt, but the Copyright Office and the Courts rejected that argument."

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/arc...nternet-radio-music-royalties.html#discussion
Click to expand...

Don't waste your time with the article above. I went to it, did a quick search for the phrases "HD" and "HD Radio" and quickly left without reading it. The article doesn't even mention HD or HD Radio.

Again, 700WLW is wasting our time posting links to articles with ZERO relevance to HD Radio in the wrong forum. I don't know why or how he thinks recent legislation effecting the royalties webcasters pay will effect HD Radio, but he's 100% wrong and wasting our time.
 
EasyPeazy said:
700WLW said:
"More on the Copyright Royalty Board Decision on Internet Radio Music Royalties"

Written By:David Oxenford
On March 5, 2007 10:19 PM

"In response to David S above - a digital signal of an over-the-air station is in fact subject to these royalties. When the royalties were first adopted, the broadcasters claimed that their signals, when just retransmitted on the Internet, were exempt, but the Copyright Office and the Courts rejected that argument."

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/arc...nternet-radio-music-royalties.html#discussion
Click to expand...

Don't waste your time with the article above. I went to it, did a quick search for the phrases "HD" and "HD Radio" and quickly left without reading it. The article doesn't even mention HD or HD Radio.

Again, 700WLW is wasting our time posting links to articles with ZERO relevance to HD Radio in the wrong forum. I don't know why or how he thinks recent legislation effecting the royalties webcasters pay will effect HD Radio, but he's 100% wrong and wasting our time.
Click to expand...

Nice try - this is directly from:

Davis Wright Tremaine LLP
[EDIT], Washington, D.C. 20005-1272,
[EDIT], [email protected]

Broadcast Lawyer & Attorney : Davis Wright Tremaine Law Firm : Television, Radio,
Webcasting, IBOC, Internet Radio, Music Royalties, Performance Rights, Indecency,
Wireless Broadband, Content Regulation, Advertising Law, Ownership, FCC

Any broadcast digital signal, rebroadcast over the Internet, is subject to the Internet royalties, including the digital HD channels ! Like-it-or-not, it's true ! :D

[EDIT-privacy concerns]
 
EasyPeazy said:
700WLW said:
"More on the Copyright Royalty Board Decision on Internet Radio Music Royalties"

Written By:David Oxenford
On March 5, 2007 10:19 PM

"In response to David S above - a digital signal of an over-the-air station is in fact subject to these royalties. When the royalties were first adopted, the broadcasters claimed that their signals, when just retransmitted on the Internet, were exempt, but the Copyright Office and the Courts rejected that argument."

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/arc...nternet-radio-music-royalties.html#discussion
Click to expand...

Don't waste your time with the article above. I went to it, did a quick search for the phrases "HD" and "HD Radio" and quickly left without reading it. The article doesn't even mention HD or HD Radio.

Again, 700WLW is wasting our time posting links to articles with ZERO relevance to HD Radio in the wrong forum. I don't know why or how he thinks recent legislation effecting the royalties webcasters pay will effect HD Radio, but he's 100% wrong and wasting our time.
Click to expand...

Of course, it doesn't specifically mention HD/IBOC, because it is all-inclusive - the HD channels are broadcast over-the-air digitally, and if rebroadcast on the Internet, they will be subject to the Internet Radio royalties ! :D
 
700WLW said:
EasyPeazy said:
700WLW said:
"More on the Copyright Royalty Board Decision on Internet Radio Music Royalties"

Written By:David Oxenford
On March 5, 2007 10:19 PM

"In response to David S above - a digital signal of an over-the-air station is in fact subject to these royalties. When the royalties were first adopted, the broadcasters claimed that their signals, when just retransmitted on the Internet, were exempt, but the Copyright Office and the Courts rejected that argument."

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/arc...nternet-radio-music-royalties.html#discussion
Click to expand...

Don't waste your time with the article above. I went to it, did a quick search for the phrases "HD" and "HD Radio" and quickly left without reading it. The article doesn't even mention HD or HD Radio.

Again, 700WLW is wasting our time posting links to articles with ZERO relevance to HD Radio in the wrong forum. I don't know why or how he thinks recent legislation effecting the royalties webcasters pay will effect HD Radio, but he's 100% wrong and wasting our time.
Click to expand...

Nice try - this is directly from:

Davis Wright Tremaine LLP
1500 K Street NW, Suite 450, Washington, D.C. 20005-1272,
(202) 508-6600, [email protected]

Broadcast Lawyer & Attorney : Davis Wright Tremaine Law Firm : Television, Radio,
Webcasting, IBOC, Internet Radio, Music Royalties, Performance Rights, Indecency,
Wireless Broadband, Content Regulation, Advertising Law, Ownership, FCC

Any broadcast digital signal, rebroadcast over the Internet, is subject to the Internet royalties, including the digital HD channels ! Like-it-or-not, it's true ! :D
Click to expand...

And your point is?

You've been spinning these articles from the beginning to make it appear that the over the air HD channels themselves would be subject to these fees. They are not.

As you pointed out, ALL streaming over the web will be subject to new royalties. That's no surprise. That's not big news - especially as it relates to HD Radio because it doesn't relate to HD Radio any more or less than traditional AM & FM radio.

So radio as an industry will have to pay royalties if they want to stream their signals? Big deal! I don't see how that news could possibly be bad for HD Radio!

If the supposed competition in the form of streaming radio that everyone here was touting a few months ago GOES AWAY that could be NOTHING BUT GOOD for HD Radio!

WiMAX is useless for streaming if nobody can afford to do it! :D That's the only significance of this - LESS COMPETITION FOR HD RADIO! :D
 
Point is, that the HD channels already being rebroadcast on the Internet, and any future channels, will have to pay the Internet Radio royalties, and this is retroactive to the beginning of 2006. Since the HD channels are not bringing in revenue, because no one is listening and there are no commercials on the channels yet, HD Radio will be left with transmitting to problematic HD radios - this just killed, HD streaming on the Internet ! :D

Here, read this paragraph again:

"In response to David S above - a digital signal of an over-the-air station is in fact subject to these royalties. When the royalties were first adopted, the broadcasters claimed that their signals, when just retransmitted on the Internet, were exempt, but the Copyright Office and the Courts rejected that argument."

The HD channels are broadcast over-air digitally, and if they are rebroadcast on the Internet, then the Internet royality fees will have to be paid !
 
700WLW said:
Point is, that the HD channels already being rebroadcast on the Internet, and any future channels, will have to pay the Internet Radio royalties, and this is retroactive to the beginning of 2006. Since the HD channels are not bringing in revenue, because no one is listening and there are no commercials on the channels yet, HD Radio will be left with transmitting to problematic HD radios - this just killed, HD streaming on the Internet ! :D

Here, read this paragraph again:

"In response to David S above - a digital signal of an over-the-air station is in fact subject to these royalties. When the royalties were first adopted, the broadcasters claimed that their signals, when just retransmitted on the Internet, were exempt, but the Copyright Office and the Courts rejected that argument."

The HD channels are broadcast over-air digitally, and if they are rebroadcast on the Internet, then the Internet royality fees will have to be paid !
Click to expand...

What you apparently fail to see is this is GREAT NEWS FOR RADIO.

Radio does not need web streaming to survive. It does not need web streaming to make money.

Radio is in the business of selling OVER THE AIR ADVERTISING. That's what we do. The ONLY reason most stations stream is in response to the "new media" of webcasters and the like. It is not a significant profit center for most stations and is easily more trouble than it's worth. That's why most stations STILL DON'T STREAM.

Having Congress effectively price the webcasters out of business is GREAT NEWS FOR RADIO IN ALL FORMS. AM, FM and HD!

Webcasting over WiMAX was supposed to kill HD Radio, right? Well, Congress just killed webcasting. This is GREAT news! Thanks for sharing!
 
EasyPeazy wrote:
Radio is in the business of selling OVER THE AIR ADVERTISING. That's what we do. The ONLY reason most stations stream is in response to the "new media" of webcasters and the like.


EP, are you sure about that?

I thought it was for matters such as being able to be heard in office buildings and other places where radio reception is poor as a way for people to continue to be able to hear the station, as well as in some instances to expand a broadcast signal during reduced power night periods.

I also thought it was for competitive reasons, such as giving people with only on-line access a chance to hear a station that they might not otherwise have listened to because they can't stream their 'favorite' station, for those that still have a favorite station in today's uncompetitive marketplace.

In addition, it's the "who cares?" attitude by some about streaming that continues to drive consumers away from FM/AM signals to on-line, satellite, and MP3 players. Music stations have a better chance at keeping their audience by offering more of certain artists and/or genres on-line, starting "on demand" streaming, and other co-brand strategies. While you seem to think stations stream because they "have to", it should be because they "want to" better serve their target audience.
 
chgodave said:
EasyPeazy wrote:
Radio is in the business of selling OVER THE AIR ADVERTISING. That's what we do. The ONLY reason most stations stream is in response to the "new media" of webcasters and the like.


EP, are you sure about that?

I thought it was for matters such as being able to be heard in office buildings and other places where radio reception is poor as a way for people to continue to be able to hear the station, as well as in some instances to expand a broadcast signal during reduced power night periods.

I also thought it was for competitive reasons, such as giving people with only on-line access a chance to hear a station that they might not otherwise have listened to because they can't stream their 'favorite' station, for those that still have a favorite station in today's uncompetitive marketplace.

In addition, it's the "who cares?" attitude by some about streaming that continues to drive consumers away from FM/AM signals to on-line, satellite, and MP3 players. Music stations have a better chance at keeping their audience by offering more of certain artists and/or genres on-line, starting "on demand" streaming, and other co-brand strategies. While you seem to think stations stream because they "have to", it should be because they "want to" better serve their target audience.
Click to expand...

I can't say there are no benefits to streaming, but on balance losing the competition from non-broadcast webcasters and maintaining our monopoly is better than having our own streams and competing with them.

Radio was a profitable business long before streaming came around. If the government wants to help us maintain our monopoly, who am I to argue?
 
Re: Easypeazy

Easypeazy says:

Having Congress effectively price the webcasters out of business is GREAT NEWS FOR RADIO IN ALL FORMS. AM, FM and HD!

Anyone that thinks this new fee structure is going to kill internet audio streaming is totally lost in a dream, living on the edge of reality in the twilight zone. All it means is anyone wishing to be in this business are just going to have to become a bit more creative finding additional products and services to go with the streaming music channels they provide to offset the fees for using the copyrighted material. If your in retail any of the products being sold have to be bought first thats the way it is. First you buy, then you sell for a return on investment! Simple! Internet streaming is no different. This might slow it down but it will never kill it! Talk about whisiling past the graveyard.
 
Re: RadioStarOne

RadioStarOne said:
Easypeazy says:

Having Congress effectively price the webcasters out of business is GREAT NEWS FOR RADIO IN ALL FORMS. AM, FM and HD!

Anyone that thinks this new fee structure is going to kill internet audio streaming is totally lost in a dream, living on the edge of reality in the twilight zone. All it means is anyone wishing to be in this business are just going to have to become a bit more creative finding additional products and services to go with the streaming music channels they provide to offset the fees for using the copyrighted material. If your in retail any of the products being sold have to be bought first thats the way it is. First you buy, then you sell for a return on investment! Simple! Internet streaming is no different. This might slow it down but it will never kill it! Talk about whisiling past the graveyard.
Click to expand...

We'll see. Personally I could care less, but it sure has the webcasters undies in a wad. They all seem to be predicting doom and gloom in the blogs linked earlier in this thread.
 
Re: Streams do not add to station audience.

chgodave said:
I thought it was for matters such as being able to be heard in office buildings and other places where radio reception is poor as a way for people to continue to be able to hear the station, as well as in some instances to expand a broadcast signal during reduced power night periods.
Click to expand...

Streaming, due to the AFTRA contracts with advertising agencies, is not usually a 100% simulcast of the on-air signal. Because of that, Arbitron counts the stream on the web as a separate station, which SUBTRACTS listeners from the station itself.... so there are definte negatives to streaming based on Arbitron's new rules on how they credit AM, FM and streams.
 
Moderator.

Even I have to ask myself. What does this thread have to do with HD radio?

Seems that this belongs in the Internet webcasting section.
 
vsa said:
Moderator.

Even I have to ask myself. What does this thread have to do with HD radio?

Seems that this belongs in the Internet webcasting section.
Click to expand...

This thread was posted, in reference to the fact, that any HD channels (digital signals) that are broadcast over-air, then rebroadcast over the Internet, will have to pay royality fees. The HD channels are not generating revenue, but royality fees would have to be paid, if rebroadcast over the Internet:

"Free HD Radio streaming online"

http://digg.com/music/Free_HD_Radio_streaming_online

Is that reason enough ?
 
700 - do you really think these megacompanies that didn't blink at installing hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of HD equipment in their stations are going to worry about one more royalty cheque to cut? I don't think so.

But some Joe-Schmo with his CD collection in the basement streaming his station online only... He's gonna have a problem staying within the law.

What's going to be the purpose of having internet WiMax radio in our cars if we can only stream commercial stations from other markets? "Gee, I sure do love hearing commercials for Chevy dealerships in San Francisco!" I think this law, if enforced, is going to really pare down the "indie" netcasters from thousands...

Furthermore - how will this affect foreign streams? Maybe we'll all ditch the local rock outlet for some streamer in The Netherlands.

If anything, this is a benefit to the fledgling HD technology.
 
"More on the Copyright Royalty Board Decision on Internet Radio Music Royalties"

Written By:David Oxenford
On March 6, 2007 03:18 PM

"In answer to some of the posts above, HD Radio is specifically exempt from these royalties. Ephemeral copies are included in this royalty rate - but are assigned no independant economic value. And where do we go? There are still options - settlement, legislative solutions or the appellate process are all still options."

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/arc...cision-on-internet-radio-music-royalties.html

Just posted - my bad ! I guess, I'll have to concentrate on bashing HD Radio on retailers' sites and blogs, if there are any left ! HD Radio will fail, anyway ! :D
 
700WLW said:
"More on the Copyright Royalty Board Decision on Internet Radio Music Royalties"

Written By:David Oxenford
On March 6, 2007 03:18 PM

"In answer to some of the posts above, HD Radio is specifically exempt from these royalties. Ephemeral copies are included in this royalty rate - but are assigned no independant economic value. And where do we go? There are still options - settlement, legislative solutions or the appellate process are all still options."

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/arc...cision-on-internet-radio-music-royalties.html

Just posted - my bad ! I guess, I'll have to concentrate on bashing HD Radio on retailers' sites and blogs, if there are any left ! HD Radio will fail, anyway ! :D
Click to expand...

You could go picket Wal-Mart! I'd love to see that...
 
EasyPeazy said:
700WLW said:
"More on the Copyright Royalty Board Decision on Internet Radio Music Royalties"

Written By:David Oxenford
On March 6, 2007 03:18 PM

"In answer to some of the posts above, HD Radio is specifically exempt from these royalties. Ephemeral copies are included in this royalty rate - but are assigned no independant economic value. And where do we go? There are still options - settlement, legislative solutions or the appellate process are all still options."

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/arc...cision-on-internet-radio-music-royalties.html

Just posted - my bad ! I guess, I'll have to concentrate on bashing HD Radio on retailers' sites and blogs, if there are any left ! HD Radio will fail, anyway ! :D
Click to expand...

You could go picket Wal-Mart! I'd love to see that...
Click to expand...

I'll just wait, until they allow reviews for HD radios, then enlighten consumers.
 
700WLW said:
I'll just wait, until they allow reviews for HD radios, then enlighten consumers.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that oughta work. I know I always go to the Wal-Mart website and read a bunch of reviews before buying anything there.
 
EasyPeazy said:
700WLW said:
I'll just wait, until they allow reviews for HD radios, then enlighten consumers.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that oughta work. I know I always go to the Wal-Mart website and read a bunch of reviews before buying anything there.
Click to expand...

Since the majority of consumers have ISPs, that is exactly, what intelligent consumers would do.
 
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