The buzz surrounding Pandora belies its more modest reality. Its 80 million subscribers' aggregate listening equals that of terrestrial radio in ONE large market. When put into perspective, it's not so exciting. Nonetheless, the buzz Pandora has created is great for its IPO. Now if that goes well, Pandora will be bought out by one of the big boys, Tim Westergren and his buddies will walk away with some serious cash, and Pandora's remnants will blend into the ever-morphing internet mix. Refer to the history of Mark Cuban and Broadcast.com. Same thing. With Pandora, it's not about the music, and it's not about the listener. It's all about the money. We traditional radio folk like money, too, but we live, work, and have relationships in our communities, so there's something more to it than money. That's not the case with Pandora.
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Pandora claims it will bury radio. Truth is, Pandora will be buried.
- Thread starter joshzz
- Start date
You radio guys make me laugh. The only time I don't listen to Pandora is when I don't have access to internet and I'm 60 years old. My sons don't listen to radio at all and consider it an ancient technology. You say stuff like - well radio offers much more than music. That's true - endless commercials and DJ's who love to hear themselves talk. I'm not saying radio is going to die. I'm not sure what's going to happen. But I can't think of any technology more out of date than AM radio. I forgot to mention I've been a radio announcer for 40 plus years.
Well, congsec, I'm proud and happy to be a radio guy; too bad you're not. Luckily this isn't about you or your sons' personal preferences.
local oscillator said:
Excuse me. We're you born mean and growling and did you cultivate this trait?
This conversation is actually more about congsec, and me and a lot of other people including his son, my son and my daughters. We have the potential to be your listeners. (We also have the potential to be Pandora's listeners!) Without us, your career is about like the take-out box from Valentine's dinner which I left sitting on the floor of the backseat rather than bringing it in to the refrigerator: My new car now smells like the dumpster out behind the Persian restaurant.
Your career could in the future take on that same smell. Instead of barking and growling, you could be asking people like congsec what it would take to get him back into the group known as "Happy and Loyal Radio Listeners".
By the way, do you have children? Do they listen to radio? I follow a forum of broadcast engineers who rather regularly admit and worry about the fact that their own children (including teens) don't know how to turn a radio on. Not a good sign if your goal is to not end up in the dumpster out behind a Persian restaurant.
local oscillator said:
It certainly is about his and his sons' personal preferences. It's also about mine, yours, and everybody else's.
Remember, Mr. Buggy Whip Manufacturer Radio Guy, when someone is listening to an internet station or service like Pandora or Shoutcast, they're not listening to you and your compatriots. Not only are they not listening to you, they are not listening to your advertisers. And with a condescending attitude like yours, you are doing yourself and your station a serious disservice since you and your bosses are doing your level best to drive us away. And it's not just the kids. Its middle-aged folks like myself as well that are tired of the hot, steaming pile of BS that most conventional radio has become in the last 20 years.
You "radio guys" need to concentrate on doing whatever it takes to win us back. You are doing a very poor job of it. You think Pandora's going to go away? It might in time, but if so, it'll probably be due to bad business decisions, not programming (computerized or otherwise). Something else, better in both technology and content, will take its place. Bank on it. And it won't be old-fashioned AM or FM radio unless broadcasters can get their **** together. I'm not holding my breath waiting for radio to turn itself around. There is better content online and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
The thing about pandora is its proliferation. You can hardly buy a bluray player or web connected tv that dosent have it builtin. Not to mention how promoted it is in the android market. Like it or not I do think it is a force to be reckoned with. Heck there are a lot of radio stations that remind me of pandora, just with sweepers and more commercials. Im not even 30 yet but i miss the days of personality driven radio.
Ive tried them, and can't stand the fact that they only allow me to input one artist for my custom station. A better way would be to allow me to input more of my music collection including particular songs and multiple artists, since some bands sound different from song to song. If I were able to input my whole music collection and then have Pandora play those as well as suggest new music, then I would use it more.
I usually listen to MusicChoice over pandora since its commercial free. Its provided by several cable and maybe satellite companies, and you can listen online with an account if your TV provider participates.
I usually listen to MusicChoice over pandora since its commercial free. Its provided by several cable and maybe satellite companies, and you can listen online with an account if your TV provider participates.
The number one complaint I hear about Pandora?
"I can't skip enough songs."
The number two complaint?
"I hate that Flo woman from the Progressive commercials."
If I hear someone say "I wish Pandora had DJs," I'll be sure to let you know.
"I can't skip enough songs."
The number two complaint?
"I hate that Flo woman from the Progressive commercials."
If I hear someone say "I wish Pandora had DJs," I'll be sure to let you know.
Nick said:
People don't want to be told what's cool to listen to anymore. They don't want jocks and they don't want anything on heavy rotation. If they wanted to hear particular songs, they'd use the iPod. Pandora is the exact opposite of what music radio has always been, and more and more people are starting to buy into that model.
The only thing that will never work with the Pandora model is talk. Whether it's sports, or financial or political. Talk requires a connection with the audience that Internet services like Pandora can't provide at this time. One of these days, though, we're going to wake up and some big name will be off to a streaming service. And that'll open the floodgates. That won't happen until streaming radio is in every new car, and even then it'll take 10-20 years to gain acceptance, since older cars will still have AM/FM.
Don C said:
I think you're wrong about that, and as I said earlier in this thread, the obvious way to handle talk on Pandora is with podcasting. Talk hosts have discovered that podcasting is a way to reach audiences in an on-demand world, and attract new advertising that isn't available on traditional radio. Podcasting gives the hosts a real connection with the audience that is miles above what they get in one-way radio.
TheBigA said:
So you get to listen to the same guy talk for an hour? I guess some people could pull it off, but I can't think of any Internet exclusive folks that could.
This sort of thing is the future, there's no doubt about that. I just think it's a little too soon.
Pandora came to my attention years ago, around 2006, thanks to my (now adult) sons who don't listen to anywhere near as much radio as I did when I was their age. They have smart phones, iPods and players full of music as well as husky laptops full of videos and music. Like your kids, mine text tirelessly, professionally and personally. Radio isn't even on their priority list, although they'll occasionally listen to sports talk. I guilt trip them occasionally by telling them "radio helped put them through college." I was a fan of Pandora and still use it, although not as much as I did one or two years ago. I don't mind the commercials or the unusual music swings, it's just that I prefer to control the diversity. Like so many of us, I have access to thousands of songs. If/when I want to seque from Steely Dan to The Crests to John Mayer to Stevie Ray Vaughn, I can put a playlist together on any number of media players and wireless network it around my house. Or I can load it into an mp3 player or burn a CD. As my crystal ball is on the fritz, I have no idea what the future of Pandora might be, but to hear friends and pundits speak, it'll be around for a while, an uncomfortable stone in radio's left shoe.
congsec51 said:
I'm right behind you. Radio guy for lots of years, in my late 50s, kids from 16-29. They pick their music when they want it, period.
From my daughter, "no offense Dad I don't want some d.j. playing his favorite songs and telling me how wonderful he is." Ouch!!
Clarification-former radio guy who got out when the gettin' was good. 
12 In a Row said:
You can tell your daughter that there is not a single DJ in a major rated market that plays the songs he chooses. That radio went away more about two decades ago if not longer depending on the market.
Music you hear on the radio today has been tested before it ever arrives at the stations. First the major labels will seat a couple hundred people fitting a particular demographic in an auditorium and poll them as to what is the best song on an album. Next, the label will make six or more cuts of the same song, then bring an audience back for determining what is the favorite version of the song.
The song will be distributed to major market radio stations. A third party will offer incentives (payola) to ensure the desired spins and then the listener will enjoy the songs that he or she likes based on the extensive testing.
Further, many of the radio stations do their own research as the songs move along in their life span. At some point they will drop rotations and eventually pull the song.
Unless you're daughter is listening to radio via the local county college, a part 15 station , pirate, or station far away in the hills, the music has been carefully pre-determined to suit her taste.
Do you honestly think that 12's daughter would like the playlist any better if she knew some research firm in Detroit was determining which songs were played in Atlanta? The point is that it is not her music.josh said:
More accurately to suit the taste of someone like her. If a research firm gets ten or fifteen 25 year-old women in a room and asks them to write down their five most hated artists, they'll get at least 30 different responses.josh said:
Those same women could set up an iDevice and never have to hear Micheal Jackson again in their AC mix.
PT got it right. She and her generation doesn't care if the dj, radio station or some research firm picks the music.
They don't want to sit through a pile of someone else's songs, promos, talk, ads. They want their favorite songs when they want them.
Same can be said for her favorite TV shows she records or downloads. Just the way it is in 2011.
They don't want to sit through a pile of someone else's songs, promos, talk, ads. They want their favorite songs when they want them.
Same can be said for her favorite TV shows she records or downloads. Just the way it is in 2011.
PTBoardOp94 said:
The "research firm" does not pick the music and it does not matter where a research company has its offices... the people who "vote" on a radio station's music are core to the format and live in the market where the station operates.
In any case, the research company does not pick the music, the listeners do. Only when a station can't do research due to the very high cost, will it use some form of national syndicated research.
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