Pandora claims it will bury radio. Truth is, Pandora will be buried.

[davideduardo]

You can tell your daughter that there is not a single DJ in a major rated market that plays the songs he chooses. That radio went away more about two decades ago if not longer depending on the market.

More like the last 50 years on CHR stations... and 4o years on album rock.

Music you hear on the radio today has been tested before it ever arrives at the stations.

I have been told that this was tried a few times, but I never personally heard of it being done.

First the major labels will seat a couple hundred people fitting a particular demographic in an auditorium and poll them as to what is the best song on an album.

You can do that with 25 people, and the results will not vary... in that testing new songs can not predict if they will be hits.

Next, the label will make six or more cuts of the same song, then bring an audience back for determining what is the favorite version of the song

I never heard of that being done, either..

[/quote] The song will be distributed to major market radio stations.[/quote]

Only if they report to the trades. Otherwise they buy HitDisks or RadioPlay disks every week.

A third party will offer incentives (payola) to ensure the desired spins

Only on WKRP and a few isolated places.

 

[joshzz]

David,

As I stated before this is how major market radio works.

It's my intent to educate those who use this board.

It's your choice, you can either learn or refuse to listen and believe something you made up in your mind.

 

[joshzz]

David,

These videos will help you understand the radio business:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lyuRu8lQCk&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94vYGZ5DBwE&NR=1&feature=fvwp

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Let me get this straight.

You are going to educate David by having him listen to the Chatty-Cathy Mannequin Show?

Now and then there is a topic on which I might find it interesting to debate David.... but if I were facing a significant broadcast decision David is one of the two or three people who post here that I would contact and say: "Can I come spend about four hours in your presence. I need some help in making a decision."

 

[TVradioguru]

David,

As I stated before this is how major market radio works.

It's my intent to educate those who use this board.

It's your choice, you can either learn or refuse to listen and believe something you made up in your mind.

Josh, Josh, Josh,.. David has forgotten more about radio than you know, or will ever know. All you're doing by attempting to call him out or being a smart a$$ is proving your ignorance.

 

[Roger That]

No kidding. Now Josh is just embarrassing himself.

 

[quadraphonic]

David,

As I stated before this is how major market radio works.

It's my intent to educate those who use this board.

It's your choice, you can either learn or refuse to listen and believe something you made up in your mind.

Can you get anyone who's interested a spot on one of those "before it's released" song focus groups?

 

[secondchoice]

A third party will offer incentives (payola) to ensure the desired spins

Only on WKRP and a few isolated places.

IIRC didn't CC get into some trouble (several years ago) and "while not admitting guilt" they agreed to "air" some indes?

 

[SirRoxalot]

NY Attorney General Eliot Spitzer took on payola back in 2006. The four major recording companies paid millions in damages. Several people and radio companies also took a hit. There were settlements with the radio companies. Some guys took a serious career hit. This was hardly "WKRP", or isolated. Several other Attorneys General piled on as well.

 

[TheBigA]

NY Attorney General Eliot Spitzer took on payola back in 2006. The four major recording companies paid millions in damages. Several people and radio companies also took a hit.

All of the major radio companies were named by Spitzer. They all agreed to pay a big fine and play more indies. The Future of Music Coalition cliams they haven't. Personally I don't think it matters. Major labels don't matter any more. What matters is having hit songs that people want to hear. The major labels don't have the bribe money to spend any more, the labels are on record saying that airplay doesn't sell records, and instead want a form of reverse payola, where radio pays them for access to music.

Pandora pays more than 50% of of its revenues to SoundExchange. The major radio companies also spend millions to Sound Exchange for digital royalties. The next great battle will be on the internet, and payola laws don't apply there.

 

[davideduardo]

David,

These videos will help you understand the radio business:

Those videos are silly over-simplifications from someone who, to radio is what an illiterate is to F.Scott Fitzgerald.

I'll give an anecdotal reply: the music director of a major, major LA current-driven station a few years back had a fun message on his office phone. It said something like "You've reached Chris Roberts, Music Director for Hits 93. If you are in the music business or have a record, you can hang up now..." (Names changed, of course)

In the PPM era, which arrived about three years ago in LA, we know how horrible the wrong new songs can hurt, and we also know that we are not the only one in the building who can pull up minute by minute audience flow data which is linked to songs, commercials and talk bits and see where the mistakes are. Playing a song for anything but the right reason is like that high school prank of sticking a "kick me" sticker on someone's butt... in this case, the sign reads "fire me now."

There are always a moron or two in any business, so I suppose there will be an exception or two. But many, many PDs ask that music be left in a box in the lobby or sent with an MP3 link, and only talk with record reps by phone once or twice a month on a specific day and often with other PDs in the group.

But... go ahead and believe your fantasies based on exaggerations of 50's practices before the PPM, Selector and oversight.

 

[davideduardo]

A third party will offer incentives (payola) to ensure the desired spins

Only on WKRP and a few isolated places.

IIRC didn't CC get into some trouble (several years ago) and "while not admitting guilt" they agreed to "air" some indes?

First, I ask "and where is Mr. Spitzer now?" (referring to the AG who stirred that one up)

Second, the legal definition of Payola, somewhat paraphrased, involves an employee of a station getting compensated for playing music without the licensee or its representative knowing. By that standard, a licensee can not take payola!

Going back to Spiro Agnew, "no contest" is a way of avoiding complex and costly legal proceedings, negative publicity and wasting time.

 

[TheBigA]

Second, the legal definition of Payola, somewhat paraphrased, involves an employee of a station getting compensated for playing music without the licensee or its representative knowing. By that standard, a licensee can not take payola!

That reminds me of a record label that once sent me a form letter in which I was agreeing that the interview I was about to do would not result in airplay for the artist. That led to me asking, "Then why are we doing this interview?" I was never asked for the form again.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Second, the legal definition of Payola, somewhat paraphrased, involves an employee of a station getting compensated for playing music without the licensee or its representative knowing. By that standard, a licensee can not take payola!

Your definition comes up quite short, David. Try this one:

Payola, in the American music industry, is the illegal practice of payment or other inducement by record companies for the broadcast of recordings on music radio, in which the song is presented as being part of the normal day's broadcast. Under US law, 47 U.S.C. § 317, a radio station can play a specific song in exchange for money, but this must be disclosed on the air as being sponsored airtime, and that play of the song should not be counted as a "regular airplay".

So, a licensee CAN take payola. If you'd like to refer to the FCC website, here's the link:

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/PayolaRules.html

Up until Spitzer's crusade, a lot of money was going to stations via "indie" promoters to push new songs or new artists. Once that practice ceased, radio stations became less valuable to the recording companies as a means of promoting new artists. Arguably, that hurt the record company's revenue stream, and they're trying to recoup lost revenue by getting money back from radio stations who play their popular music, but have little interest in promoting new music. PPM certainly hasn't caused any expansion of playlists, or promotion of new artists by radio stations.

 

[davideduardo]

Your definition comes up quite short, David. Try this one:

Payola, in the American music industry, is the illegal practice of payment or other inducement by record companies for the broadcast of recordings on music radio, in which the song is presented as being part of the normal day's broadcast. Under US law, 47 U.S.C. § 317, a radio station can play a specific song in exchange for money, but this must be disclosed on the air as being sponsored airtime, and that play of the song should not be counted as a "regular airplay".

What you are describing is the lack of sponsor ID, a totally separate issue. A station can legally take money to play a song, but a staff member can not do so without the knowledge can consent of management and proper logging and sponsor ID.

So, a licensee CAN take payola. If you'd like to refer to the FCC website, here's the link:

The second link shows clearly that the licensee would be in violation of sponsorship rules if running a pay for play song, while an individual would be in violation of taking payola, defined as a payment taken under the table.

Up until Spitzer's crusade, a lot of money was going to stations via "indie" promoters to push new songs or new artists.

That is absolutely not how it worked. The indies substituted for or supplemented label promotions departments (many small labels don't or didn't have promo departments), and were compensated for reporting adds. The stations did not get money for individual songs, but, rather, got some kind of compensation for doing all their add reporting via the indie, and not directly to the trades.

And this practice only affected some formats (current based ones) in some major markets. 95% or more of stations did not get in on this. And with the advent of BDS, MediaBase, MediaMonitors, labels did not need "reports" to the trades since adds were discovered by detection, not reporting.

Once that practice ceased, radio stations became less valuable to the recording companies as a means of promoting new artists.

Oh, so wrong again. The labels worked with indies because other labels worked with indies, and they were afraid of losing the insider position. Once electronic reporting of adds based on detections became the basis for charts, the indie promoter became far less important.

PPM certainly hasn't caused any expansion of playlists, or promotion of new artists by radio stations.

True, because it shows how truly damaging new, unfamiliar songs can be.

 

[joshzz]

My point is, payola does exist. It's wrong, there is no doubt and I applaud the efforts by the FCC and other government organizations to reign in on it.

The truth is, the stations with the best ratings are those that are playing what their listeners want to hear.

 

[TheBigA]

My point is, payola does exist. It's wrong, there is no doubt and I applaud the efforts by the FCC and other government organizations to reign in on it.

It's not wrong. It's business. Payola is legal for Pandora or Sirius. There is no other country in the world that makes it a federal crime.

 

[SirRoxalot]

David, your interpretation of the rules about payola are diametrically opposed to what's posted on the FCC website under the title "The FCC's Payola Rules". You might try clicking on the link that I provided before telling me that I'm wrong. The FCC says that "lack of sponsor ID" IS payola if money or consideration was received for playing a recording and that fact is not disclosed to the audience. Argue with the FCC, not me:

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/PayolaRules.html

Money or other consideration was exchanged for adds, and for spins. "Spin programs" aired songs specifically to skew the results of BDS, MediaBase, MediaMonitors, and labels. Indies were simply the means of getting the "inducement" from the recording company to the local people involved.

Recording companies stopped working with indies because it became apparent that they wouldn't be isolated from prosecution, and as part of the settlement with Spitzer & friends. To quote the NYAG's press release:

Under the consent judgment, Entercom has agreed to undertake a series of reforms, including:

Halting the practice of accepting payments and other inducements from record labels in exchange for airplay;

Banning all payments from independent promoters employed as a pass-through for funds from record labels;

Hiring a compliance officer to monitor promotion practices; and

Implementing an internal system to detect any future abuses.


The agreements with the other radio companies were similar. For the terms of the recording company settlements, check out:

http://www.ag.ny.gov/media_center/2006/may/may11a_06.html

 

[SuperRadioFan]

I gotta feeling this is gonna be an even longer thread than normal LOL!!

 

[TheBigA]

"Spin programs" aired songs specifically to skew the results of BDS, MediaBase, MediaMonitors, and labels.

Ironically, the specific example cited by the NY AG in his case DID in fact disclose the sponsor. But since this never came to trial, that was never stated. To the best of my knowledge, no "idie promoters" were fined. Just labels and radio companies.

We should really look at this as what it was: An opportunity for the AG to make some hay, grab some headlines, and get some revenue from profit-making companies.